Pinnacle and their "live deleted" wagers for NO reason costs me 3640 Euro today

moonbeam · 01-12-10, 12:05 PM

Hello Justin,

thank you and SBR for the investigation. I know I was harsh, please excuse me.
I´m sure without your investigation there was no chance for me that Pinnacle payed the wagers.
Pinnacle has now closed my account

Here´s their email:

We have reviewed these wagers and find in this particular case the wagers were cancelled in error. Our review shows that losing wagers were cancelled in the past.

We would have preferred to call it a wash, but have chosen not to argue.

We have credited your account with the winnings from the two wagers and closed your Pinnacle Sports account.
You may process your using our normal withdrawal policies.

Kind regards,

Bridgette, Director
Customer Service Department
Pinnacle Sports

P.S: Its true that their cancelled losing wager in the past also was cancelled for no reason

AimingHigh · 01-12-10, 12:10 PM

So you were "up" in the past for losing in-play wagers, but just tried to get this one corrected in your favour? Not that it matters now, but how much were you "up" from the cancelled losing wagers? - Just wondering if their "call it a wash" comment has any weight at all.

Did you ask them to close your account, or did they just decide to do so along with paying the winnings?

JohnAnthony · 01-12-10, 12:16 PM

moonbeam, you got your funds. Now get the hell outta there, I'm happy Pinnacle is still maintaining it's great support rate, and I actually doubt they tried to "steal" anything from you. Stop complaining as I think they'd have just enough with this.

Good luck

moonbeam · 01-12-10, 12:16 PM

I couldn´t understand why they canceled the losing wager in the past. I think it also was a fault to cancel this bet.
I have posted this here at SBR Forum 4 weeks ago.

I don´t asked them to close my account...

Stumpage · 01-12-10, 12:23 PM

Wow, talk about Good News/Bad News. I'm assuming you're pleased to get your winnings, but account closure seems like a massive burden to bear. I've been tossed from many books, but getting the heave-ho from Pinnacle would take quite some getting used to in my situation.....

trumpdown · 01-12-10, 02:14 PM

Well at least you got your money. 2 sides to every story. They must have solid reasoning for closing your account.

BubbleBobble · 01-12-10, 02:42 PM

Originally posted by Stumpage

Wow, talk about Good News/Bad News. I'm assuming you're pleased to get your winnings, but account closure seems like a massive burden to bear. I've been tossed from many books, but getting the heave-ho from Pinnacle would take quite some getting used to in my situation.....

They simply open new accounts, as they do with other books.
No offense to moonbeam, but that's how it works in the arbing world...allthou getting the boot from Pinny prolly hurts a bit more.

Toit · 01-12-10, 02:59 PM

Originally posted by trumpdown

Well at least you got your money. 2 sides to every story. They must have solid reasoning for closing your account.

Would be helpful to know why they closed the account.

trumpdown · 01-12-10, 03:11 PM

Originally posted by Toit

Would be helpful to know why they closed the account.

We'll never truly know unless Moonbeam explains the whole story. For some reason Pinnacle doesn't want to book his action. Is it for arbing or something else? I bet Moonbeam knows why.

Stacocakes · 01-12-10, 03:36 PM

Without knowing the facts exactly you would have to assume that the bets that were being made were in-game soccer bets that were made right when something happened in the game to drastically change the odds which would probably be a goal. The player may have had a feed that was more real-time then the pinnacle site has and the player was able to get a bet in before the odds drastically changed.Once the new odds were posted the player would then hedge out the bet that he had made right before the goal and the profit would be guaranteed on both sides. After that game was finished what could have been done was the bet that was made after the goal was graded as a win or a loss and then the bet that was made right before the goal was scored may have been voided. The team that scored the goal may have lost the game in the end so the bet that was voided would have been what Pinnacle referred to as a "losing bet that was voided".

Judging from the Pinnacle email it seems that there were many of these in-game bets that were done in the past and voided. I am guessing these voided bets happen mainly in soccer because the live betting is available throughout the whole game and when you try to make an in-game soccer bet a screen pops up saying that they have the right to void any bets that they feel were made on a bad line basically. If you bet basketball, baseball or football in-game the betting is only available during commercial breaks or timeouts and when you place the bets Pinnacle does not have the blurb that states they have the right to cancel any in-running bets that were made on bad lines.

I have been betting in-running with pinnacle for many years and I have never had any in-game bets voided. I think this is just for soccer bets mainly and for bets that are made on the other sports on lines that were way off. I have seen a couple occasions where during the game you will see a note on the bottom of the live betting screen saying that a certain bet will be voided due to a bad line.

I am hoping that if this is not the case and I am wrong in assuming this that either moonbeam,sbr or pinnacle come forward and explain what was wrong in this situation so that other people betting with Pinnacle know what they can and can't do.

JohnAnthony · 01-12-10, 03:40 PM

I would probably commit suicide if Pinnacle close my account. I love this book too much

moonbeam · 01-12-10, 04:36 PM

Originally posted by trumpdown

We'll never truly know unless Moonbeam explains the whole story. For some reason Pinnacle doesn't want to book his action. Is it for arbing or something else? I bet Moonbeam knows why.

Of course I know why. I beat them and Pinnacle doesn´t like this.

I have never bet on bad lines.

OSUCOWBOYS · 01-12-10, 04:47 PM

Originally posted by moonbeam

Of course I know why. I beat them and Pinnacle doesn´t like this.

I have never bet on bad lines.

Maybe the most absurd thing I have ever seen posted on a forum, ever. Thanks for the laugh.

moonbeam · 01-12-10, 04:49 PM

you´re welcome

tachi · 01-12-10, 04:59 PM

I suppose Moonbeam will use some friend,Pinnacle is 100% a must have
for any bettor.

as for the reason for the closed account,
I remember durito once wrote that if you bet on a bad line,
they cancel the bet and if you argue they will pay your winnings and close the account.
the same principle here...

and finally moonbeam,you are wrong to discuss these bets.
The asian bookies(12bet) make absolutely the same-few seconds after the bet there is a goal-bet rejected,even if it was confirmed before that.this is for their own protection.

moonbeam · 01-12-10, 05:03 PM

tachi, I will never touch Pinnacle again.

They voided 3 bets for absolutly no reason.

And it was NO bad line!!!

pjesnik24 · 01-12-10, 05:11 PM

I do not bet livegames there because I find the 12bet and sbobet system better than the one at pinnacle. But you must have found some big value with those bets as you knew about the risk. Anyway I would not be surprised if your cousin or a close friend opens an account at pinnacle soon and has a similar betting pattern as you do...
For me this issue is just another reason not to use pinnacle for livebetting except at half times and how this issue was resolved is just another reason to trust pinnacle not to run away with my money!

tachi · 01-12-10, 05:12 PM

...

moonbeam · 01-12-10, 05:18 PM

Originally posted by pjesnik24

I do not bet livegames there because I find the 12bet and sbobet system better than the one at pinnacle. But you must have found some big value with those bets as you knew about the risk. Anyway I would not be surprised if your cousin or a close friend opens an account at pinnacle soon and has a similar betting pattern as you do...
For me this issue is just another reason not to use pinnacle for livebetting except at half times and how this issue was resolved is just another reason to trust pinnacle not to run away with my money!

My cousins and close friends told me they don´t want to open an account at Pinnacle

UV82 · 01-12-10, 05:24 PM

Moonbean, first of all thank you for sharing the story with us.

secondly, I wish you best of luck with your dispute with them.

and finally I think this live betting voids with various bookies is an absolute nonsense - they must get their act together... there cannot be a grey area, either you can take a bet at a certain moment or you cannot (Pinny can always at a press of a button can put game offline as they do with non-live bettings) ... they cannot have the cake and eat it... if the game turns our way then OK if not will void. They can always use the 5-20 seconds delay mechnism to decide whther they accept the bet or not but it is absolute rubbish that they accept a bet subject to cancellation... this makes no sense especially with a AAA+++ book like Pinny.

THEY MUST PAY!!!

tonyhomo · 01-12-10, 05:41 PM

sth doesnt really add up with the story

turnip · 01-12-10, 05:56 PM

Originally posted by UV82

. they cannot have the cake and eat it... if the game turns our way then OK if not will void.

THEY MUST PAY!!!

It sounds like they canceled losing bets too. And they did pay.

As for closing the account: He insisted on being paid when both losing and winning bets were canceled. Would you want a customer like this?

Dunder · 01-12-10, 06:05 PM

I can see both points of view here.

You have gained in the past from bets being wrongly voided. On the basis that these were also in play arbitrages, you would have winning bets (presumably at Betfair) on the other side.

This time you have a losing bet at Betfair and initiate a complaint.

I don´t blame you for doing so, but I am also not surprised that Pinny have chosen to boot you for doing so. If Pinny asked to have all of the wrongly voided bets to be graded correctly and not just this one, how would you respond?

I said in your previous thread, a few weeks ago, that in-play arbs carried a danger of this happening and you disagreed. By the very fact that you initiated that thread however, it indicated that you knew this was likely to happen, eventually.

Pinny is not an in-play book in my eyes, aside from anything else they do not have the software to run these markets properly, they cannot even maintain their ante-post dynamic lines for any length of time.

moonbeam · 01-12-10, 06:22 PM

Originally posted by Dunder

I can see both points of view here.

You have gained in the past from bets being wrongly voided. On the basis that these were also in play arbitrages, you would have winning bets (presumably at Betfair) on the other side.

This time you have a losing bet at Betfair and initiate a complaint.

I don´t blame you for doing so, but I am also not surprised that Pinny have chosen to boot you for doing so. If Pinny asked to have all of the wrongly voided bets to be graded correctly and not just this one, how would you respond?

I said in your previous thread, a few weeks ago, that in-play arbs carried a danger of this happening and you disagreed. By the very fact that you initiated that thread however, it indicated that you knew this was likely to happen, eventually.

Pinny is not an in-play book in my eyes, aside from anything else they do not have the software to run these markets properly, they cannot even maintain their ante-post dynamic lines for any length of time.

good post dunder. I can´t understand everything you said.
Sometimes I do this arbitrage thing, sometimes I bought value odds without arbitraging. However, I think it´s its impossible that an A+ book reserve the right to void any bet the way they want... and Pinnacle do void for no reason! Of course I have some good friends to open a new account at pinnacle, but I don´t do this. Books who void bets for no reason are useless.

JohnAnthony · 01-12-10, 06:42 PM

Books who void bets for no reason are useless.

If you are somehow implying that Pinnacle is useless, then you my friend are pretty clueless.

moonbeam · 01-12-10, 06:55 PM

Originally posted by JohnAnthony

If you are somehow implying that Pinnacle is useless, then you my friend are pretty clueless.

don´t blame me John. I´m able to blame myself

UV82 · 01-12-10, 07:03 PM

all I m saying is that a situation where a book accepts bets conditionally is unaaceptable... the flag of 'BETS ARE NOW ACCEPTED' can be either ON or OFF cannot be on somewhere in the middle.

We as clients would like to know exactly where we stand on a black and white basis - shouldn't have grey areas... i.e. it is either ON or OFF, 'WE WILL DECIDE LATER' cannot be an option... I know that live betting may also tricky for bookies too but the 5-20 secs delay mechanism which is implemented successfully by many books should resolve this problem.

The fact that moonbean won as a result of this flawed system in the past is less relevant to the main issue at hand.

durito · 01-12-10, 07:14 PM

Pinnace customer service has the pompous attitude that they are better than everybody else. Thus, they appear to feel they can pick and choose which wagers to cancel and that because they are pinnacle, that is fair.

They don't like shot takers, but I don't really seem moonbeam taking a shot here. What I've heard before was them offering players to keep bad line bets in exchange for closing of their account -- they didn't appear here to give him the option.

They simply appear to not like to be called out when they were wrong, so they paid and elected to not take any more bets from moonbeam. Kind of bs, but it certainly sounds like the typical pinny attitude. Personally I'd send the 4k back for my account (well, perhaps i'd just get another one).

UV82 · 01-12-10, 07:27 PM

Their system is flawed and very user unfrienly - must change it... particularly being the Pinnacle of sports betting

and in the meantime they must settle moonbean

skrtelfan · 01-13-10, 12:58 AM

I can second what Durito said. Any time they have to reinstate a bet that they graded a loser they terminate your account.

JohnAnthony · 01-13-10, 09:40 AM

and in the meantime they must settle moonbean

Already did.

UV82 · 01-13-10, 09:17 PM

Originally posted by JohnAnthony

Already did.

did they ?

durito · 01-13-10, 10:01 PM

I'd be shocked if he hadn't long ago received his entire balance including the winnings from said bet in his mb or neteller account. they don't **** around with payouts.

trumpdown · 01-13-10, 10:08 PM

Yeah he's paid off and done. I'd rather have the Pinny account personally. When you mess with a wolf you're gonna get bit.

moonbeam · 01-14-10, 12:13 PM

Originally posted by Dunder

I can see both points of view here.

I don´t blame you for doing so, but I am also not surprised that Pinny have chosen to boot you for doing so. If Pinny asked to have all of the wrongly voided bets to be graded correctly and not just this one, how would you respond?

Dunder, I would response that this was great. That´s exactly what I expect from a A+ book.
But it would be much better not to cancel bets for no reason