Pinnacle and their "live deleted" wagers for NO reason costs me 3640 Euro today

moonbeam · 01-09-10, 04:02 PM

Game over.

Lost 3640 Euro.

Thanks Pinnacle

Jontheman · 01-09-10, 04:34 PM

Originally posted by moonbeam

Game over.

Lost 3640 Euro.

Thanks Pinnacle

That's a tough one. Have you phoned Pinnacle and asked to speak to a manager or Emailed them? An attachment showing the odds on Betfair timestamped at the time of your bet would be pretty persuasive. I have managed to get voids at other books reversed in similar circumstances because I could present clear and convincing evidence that the line on my bet was correct.

I wish you luck.

moonbeam · 01-09-10, 04:45 PM

thank you Jon,
I´m not a native english speaker, so I don´t phoned them.
But I have filled out a comlaint form here at SBR and I´m really wondering what happens

Teddy_KGB · 01-09-10, 05:27 PM

You should forget the live "betting" at pinnacle, if we can call this as live betting.... you don't know when will they will accept your soccer bet (this is the "danger ball" situation, asian bookies use this system too) and can they delete even after a minute, live NBA betting only at breaks, live tennis only at changeovers (what a crap).. forget them, use Betfair, only 5-8 second delay and your bet will be accepted.

Pinny dont have telephone..

Santo · 01-09-10, 05:53 PM

They do have phones, they just don't advertise them

moonbeam · 01-09-10, 06:44 PM

Originally posted by Teddy_KGB

You should forget the live "betting" at pinnacle, if we can call this as live betting.... you don't know when will they will accept your soccer bet (this is the "danger ball" situation, asian bookies use this system too) and can they delete even after a minute, live NBA betting only at breaks, live tennis only at changeovers (what a crap).. forget them, use Betfair, only 5-8 second delay and your bet will be accepted.

Pinny dont have telephone..

You are right Teddy.

Here is the email they send me:

Dear Client,

When clients make live Soccer wagers, the match may be designated as in a "danger zone". One example of a "danger zone" would be during a Penalty Kick. If there is a "danger zone", a message is displayed to the client his wager will be accepted or deleted based on the current situation in the game. If the client agrees, the wager is confirmed with the password as usual.

If the wager is deleted, it is added to the Review Account section, Deleted Live Wagers. You may review these wagers using the same methods as pending or graded wagers.

You may review all of the Live Soccer Wagering rules on the site, however, the one pertaining to the accepting of wagers is copied here for your convenience. Live betting wagers are accepted dependent on upcoming events in the Soccer match. Clients may or may not accept these terms by confirming or not confirming the wager with their password. All Live Betting Soccer wagers are subject to deletion from the account.

Kind regards,

Customer Service Department

The funny thing is that 95% of all soccer bets at pinnacle are in a "danger zone", even if there is halftime in the match.

If there was really a penalty, Pinnacle took the odds offline, just like any other book.

Unbelievable. This is the behavior of D- books, not of a A+ book

moonbeam · 01-09-10, 06:54 PM

Dear Client,

Kindly be informed as per our rules on our site:

Live betting wagers are accepted dependent on upcoming events in the Soccer match.
Clients may or may not accept these terms by confirming or not confirming the wager with their password.
All Live Betting Soccer wagers are subject to deletion from the account.

Kind regards,

These are great rules Pinnacle!

tomcowley · 01-09-10, 07:14 PM

Originally posted by moonbeam

Live betting wagers are accepted dependent on upcoming events in the Soccer match.

This is a total joke since they can freeroll any quick goal. Why don't they just offer these markets explicitly- during the 18th minute, 1x2, conditional on score being 0-0 after 19 minutes, during the 19th minute, 1x2 conditional on score being 0-0 after 20 minutes, etc. Then they can't get beaten by a better feed, and players don't have to worry about being cheated.

BubbleBobble · 01-09-10, 07:32 PM

I agree, that is very bad...they shouldn't offer live betting at all if they act like pussys and have rules that allow them to take free shots at players if they want.

Iam a Pinny fan, as most people, but this is bullshit. Sorry to hear about that loss Moon.

Justin7 · 01-09-10, 09:47 PM

I wish they would give a more thorough explanation of why the wager was canceled.

JoshW · 01-09-10, 10:07 PM

Live betting rules need to get more standardized. The person running the live betting has an incentive to make money for the book, if nothing else to keep his job. Grey area like this can be manipulated. Offering live betting in this manner, is bound to lead to tons of complaints.

Jaug · 01-09-10, 10:30 PM

Sick beat

chance · 01-10-10, 01:47 AM

This is crazy. How can you bet under those rules? Pinnacle gets to the right to screw you if they choose.

I love Pinnacle but this is needs to be changed. Suspend betting if it is too DANGEROUS.

mminkovski · 01-10-10, 02:07 AM

"All Live Betting Soccer wagers are subject to deletion from the account."

I can't believe pinnacle CS wrote this? It's complete nonsense. They probably do not have a person to watch the games live and suspend markets when needed.
Anyway, their live betting is a joke. I've never used it. Moonbeam, thanks for sharing the info!

andywend · 01-10-10, 02:20 AM

All Live Betting Soccer wagers are subject to deletion from the account."

Moonbeam, if you continued to place live betting soccer wagers with Pinnacle knowing they can delete any wager they choose, then I guess you can't be surprised when they delete wagers that wind up going in your favor.

There is a very simple solution to this problem:
Stop placing live soccer wagers with Pinnacle.

Dr.Gonzo · 01-10-10, 03:33 AM

Originally posted by Justin7

I wish they would give a more thorough explanation of why the wager was canceled.

It's pretty clear in my opinion.

During the "danger zone" they reserve the right to cancel the bet.

From the looks of things if the bet proves to be advantageous during this "zone" they will delete it.

Shot taking at its finest.

I guess you can only bet live safely at an exchange.

Dr.Gonzo · 01-10-10, 03:43 AM

One thing I will mention. Whilst I feel for moonbeam he has brought this to the attention of SBR previously. So he knew what was going on with these live wagers. I still feel he has been rolled don't get me wrong. But he was not naive of the situation.

I hope pinnacle can sort this bullshit out.

pjesnik24 · 01-10-10, 05:42 AM

Originally posted by moonbeam

You are right Teddy.

The funny thing is that 95% of all soccer bets at pinnacle are in a "danger zone", even if there is halftime in the match.

If there was really a penalty, Pinnacle took the odds offline, just like any other book.

Unbelievable. This is the behavior of D- books, not of a A+ book

this is true, I made a bet at half time yesterday for the game Sevilla-Racing and the ball according to pinnacle was in danger zone...

Pareto · 01-10-10, 09:43 AM

Yeah this is the exact same email they sent to me when they cancelled one of my bets,

SBR Forum - Sports Betting Talk - Sportsbook Review Forum

http://forum.sbrforum.com/sportsbooks-industry/196196-deleted-wagers-pinnacle.html

Sports betting and handicapping forum: discuss picks, odds, and predictions for upcoming games and results on latest bets.

Since that incident they have cancelled one more bet I had made. This one was even more bizarre as the goal was scored about a minute after I placed the bet. I actually didnt notice the bet had been cancelled until the day after, as I never thought to look in and check, as I was sure the bet was accepted.

However, in Pinnacles defense I have also placed a wager that was accepted even though a goal was scored maybe 10-15 seconds later.

So far I am giving Pinnacle the benefit of the doubt. I dont think they are trying to take shots at people. But it would be nice with some clearer rules.

Ruifgalmeida · 01-10-10, 09:49 AM

simple dont bet live, live betting is like this in every bookie

trumpdown · 01-10-10, 09:53 AM

Good info.....Hope you get your just deserts mate

RaisyDaisy · 01-10-10, 10:05 AM

Wow I hate live betting anyways as its too much of a hassle sitting in front of a computer. That is not a way to start off the new year. Hope you get it resolved.

Dunder · 01-10-10, 10:08 AM

Originally posted by Dr.Gonzo

One thing I will mention. Whilst I feel for moonbeam he has brought this to the attention of SBR previously. So he knew what was going on with these live wagers. I still feel he has been rolled don't get me wrong. But he was not naive of the situation.

I hope pinnacle can sort this bullshit out.

Indeed. This type of in-play arb is something that Moonbeam appears to do regularly.

Obviously we are not able to judge whether this "danger-zone" cancellation is in any-way justified but to my mind the risk of having a live bet voided by a book, when that bet is one side of an arbitrage, is always going to be too high.

Jaug · 01-10-10, 01:30 PM

In my opinion it's safer to bet with SBObet than pinny. SBObet has a very comprehensive system to show exactly when your bet is accepted. That creates less question marks.

moonbeam · 01-11-10, 11:29 AM

Originally posted by Justin7

I wish they would give a more thorough explanation of why the wager was canceled.

Justin,
I don´t know if you received my complaint against Pinnacle sent 2 days ago.
Have you tried to contact them?

And what´s your position (or SBR´s position) when an A+ rated book like Pinnacle canceled 2 winning bets of 3640 Euro without any reason???

moonbeam · 01-11-10, 05:49 PM

looks like SBR.com is not interested in this complaint. Right?

JohnAnthony · 01-11-10, 06:01 PM

moonbeam, I would advise you to approach SBR with a better, more patient and more understanding attitude before starting to give them shit on the forums. I currently bet exclusively at Pinny, but this is a great concern for me and I would be very relieved if this was settled as I don't want this to happen to me.

moonbeam · 01-11-10, 06:37 PM

Originally posted by JohnAnthony

moonbeam, I would advise you to approach SBR with a better, more patient and more understanding attitude before starting to give them shit on the forums. I currently bet exclusively at Pinny, but this is a great concern for me and I would be very relieved if this was settled as I don't want this to happen to me.

Of course you are right with your advice JohnAnthony.

I´m not an native english speaker.
I´m a litte bit ****ed with this canceld wager for no reason, please excuse me

JohnAnthony · 01-11-10, 06:44 PM

I would be just as mad my friend. I'm hoping Justin7 will actually speak with Pinnacle about this, and that you will at least get one of the plays graded as they both should (judging by the way you told the story anyway).

I'll be checking this thread, I certainly don't want this to happen to me.

Teddy_KGB · 01-11-10, 06:56 PM

I feel your sympathy Moonbeam, but unfortunatly I'm sure they will never re-settle your bet as winner... leave pinnacle now!

moonbeam · 01-11-10, 07:52 PM

Originally posted by Teddy_KGB

I feel your sympathy Moonbeam, but unfortunatly I'm sure they will never re-settle your bet as winner... leave pinnacle now!

Thats very true Teddy,
And I guess its very true SBR don`t want to touch A+ advertising books

Justin7 · 01-11-10, 08:31 PM

Originally posted by moonbeam

Thats very true Teddy,
And I guess its very true SBR don`t want to touch A+ advertising books

I received your complaint. I've written you twice. Have you received those?

Pinny also says they wrote you an explanation.

OSUCOWBOYS · 01-11-10, 11:41 PM

Originally posted by Justin7

I received your complaint. I've written you twice. Have you received those?

Pinny also says they wrote you an explanation.

Shocker. SBR and Pinny tried to explain/work this out.

You really think Pinny is going to flat out steal 4k? C'mon.

Justin7 · 01-12-10, 11:24 AM

Originally posted by OSUCOWBOYS

Shocker. SBR and Pinny tried to explain/work this out.

You really think Pinny is going to flat out steal 4k? C'mon.

While I doubt Pinny would try to steal 4k, this dispute is still open. Anyone can make a mistake, Pinnacle included.