Why is liquidity on Matchbook so poor?

[sdtrader]

I wish there was more market makers for the live betting I come from the old tradersports and during the live games you could easily buy 1k from either side anytime of the game. I am surprised that no one has really become an ingame market maker yet. There are some games that have somewhat ok liquidity in game and other almost nothing.

[Fishhead]

In my opinion, whenever I see a large 2ndhf offer of 30k or more on something
I believe it to be a sportsbook that has an acct at MBK ....and I think im right

Because when you see a line like that you will not attempt to bet that way

You may be correct in some instances, but not always...........that's a guarantee.

[trumpdown]

I wish there was more market makers for the live betting I come from the old tradersports and during the live games you could easily buy 1k from either side anytime of the game. I am surprised that no one has really become an ingame market maker yet. There are some games that have somewhat ok liquidity in game and other almost nothing.

I agree. This is the main reason I look for alternatives to coincide with MB. However, last night football was pretty good all game. I see they're starting NHL in-game but not much there yet. I saw a live in-play soccer match a couple weeks ago, but they didn't advertise it on the home page. I like that they're adding sports to in-play and hope as FH suggested liquidity can stengthen.

[ArunSh]

I must agree, with the frustrations in other markets. Anything other than NFL just doesn't seem to have nearly enough liquidity.

[byronbb]

It needs fish....

[blix177]

I think they should shrink the spread between offering lines and taking offers. Currently the difference is 1.2%, I think more people will buy lines if the spread is around .8%, line poster get 0 commission, and line takers only pay .8%

[Scooter]

Matchbook doesn't listen to suggestions. They're learning all the Tradesports lessons the hard way.

- The site should be more interactive, where it comes to non-trading. Include a forum, and trading pit.
- Not user-friendly enough. The site should have an educational section that shows everyone how easy it is. For live trading, they have percentages (players can switch to a 0-100 scale, which is very useful, because that is the percentage-based probability scale we are used to in our heads), but have they even tried to educate the public about this feature? No!
The layout also lacks in user-friendliness. You should be able to see all you trades and unmatched offers on one page.

I could go on.

There have been some good suggestions in this thread for improving MB.

I sent them an email urging a forum, bu that was early this year and if I did get a response, it was a "Thank you for your suggestion" type of email.

A forum would cost them (almost) nothing, and would or should help stimulate more action, get newbies questiions answered, etc.

As has been pointed out in the thread, they should be innovative.
Instead, they're not even up to the standards of earlier exchanges in many areas.

[Scooter]

Liquidity at MB will increase dramatically come DEC. 15th or thereabouts............


Be prepared, have your account funded.

Nostrildamus?

[Fishhead]

More then enough liquidity for most........

Tremendous operation.........full throttle with leverage is my kind of house.

[ArunSh]

Just seems so odd, clearly lines at other places are getting action, but given how matchbook's #s are almost always better, why would liquidity be so mediocre there seems like everyone would bet there.

[blix177]

I turn over around 7k a day there, mostly from playing both side of the action. But I notice even with NFL games with -101 and +100 spreads 10 min before the game, I sometimes get 3-4 min with no action. Its weird considering that is when most of the pub money is coming in. Also when I have a big bet on +1k, normally the only action I get is with point movement, and the market maker takes my bet. Another weird thing is no one wants to undercut the market makers. I done that with some success in the pass putting up $50 on either side, but it turned out to be to much work for too little profit. Anything larger a lot of times I get unhedge position due to line movement.

[Wheell]

who are the ppl that puts up $30 000+ in NBA second half...?
in almost every NBA second half there will be $30k+ on one side, and it just one guy



Yeah I've often wondered this myself. Wonder who does that...

Subtle, real subtle.

[hhsilver]

...... Another weird thing is no one wants to undercut the market makers. I done that with some success in the pass putting up $50 on either side, but it turned out to be to much work for too little profit. Anything larger a lot of times I get unhedge position due to line movement.

this changed significantly when they changed commission rules in March. It seems you mostly get your offer matched only if the line moves - and even then it takes more of a move than in the past. I find a big difference compared to before comm change. You?

[Santo]

I posted decent volume there before the commission change, very little since (a few college football bets), and I certainly no longer try to play the markets like I used to (which created liquidity), so it doesn't surprise me.

[blix177]

Well this is what I notice, you can make a few bucks, being the market maker for NFL 3 hours to post, NBA 1 hour to post, NCAAF 3 hour to post, NCAAB 10 min to post (can post a bigger -110. -110 and still see action), NHL 30min (but sometimes 0 action even with 1-2% spread).

-hhsilver: Joined matchbook after they changed their structure.

[vanzack]

Betfair, a soccer match with team A leading 3-0 with about 5 mins. to play

Someone offered to back Team B GBP 50,000 at 1.01 (-10000). Needless to say it was snapped up in seconds and was obviously a mistake. I can imagine he was pretty pissed too.

In-play exchange trading is the law of the jungle, but at least it is one where there are no bad line disputes and everyone knows the rules.

Yeah - but unfortunately if MB themselves make the mistake, they cancel the bet "to protect players who make an obvious mistake".

This happened to me, and it was a cold slap in the face that MB themselves do a lot of the seeding, and that they wouldnt accept their own mistakes.

It was a very detailed trade that I sold off to hedge my position on a NFL Playoff HT last year, and MB bought back my hedge after an emergency phone call. But it taught me something - and the luster of MB has never been the same for me. When you realize it is MB that is doing most of the seeding, a lot of things become a lot clearer as to what is being discussed in this thread.

[coldhardfacts]

Yeah - but unfortunately if MB themselves make the mistake, they cancel the bet "to protect players who make an obvious mistake".

This happened to me, and it was a cold slap in the face that MB themselves do a lot of the seeding, and that they wouldnt accept their own mistakes.

It was a very detailed trade that I sold off to hedge my position on a NFL Playoff HT last year, and MB bought back my hedge after an emergency phone call. But it taught me something - and the luster of MB has never been the same for me. When you realize it is MB that is doing most of the seeding, a lot of things become a lot clearer as to what is being discussed in this thread.

Seeding? Not a problem as far as I can see.

Failure to make good on a seeded amount that was matched? Problem.

[JoshW]

A lot of good detailed information in this thread. I find it interesting to hear from current and previous market makers. I don't think we would be getting this many details, if there was still much money to be made market making.

[bettilimbroke999]

Betfair, a soccer match with team A leading 3-0 with about 5 mins. to play

Someone offered to back Team B GBP 50,000 at 1.01 (-10000). Needless to say it was snapped up in seconds and was obviously a mistake. I can imagine he was pretty pissed too.

In-play exchange trading is the law of the jungle, but at least it is one where there are no bad line disputes and everyone knows the rules.

Wow ouch, I would agree to say the very least that dude must have been unbelievably pissed, the walls in his home prolly have about 20 fist sized holes in em

[vanzack]

Seeding? Not a problem as far as I can see.

Failure to make good on a seeded amount that was matched? Problem.

Exactly my thoughts.

And it wasnt for chicken scratch - it was a 5 figure cancellation.

The interesting thing was the buyback on my hedge bet and their willingness to do it halfway through the 3rd quarter.

[vanzack]

But my point is - when you know it is them who do most of the seeding - you understand immediately why they dont work hard to expose their code to make it easier to trade, how they can swoop offers up faster than you can, why there is no liquidity in markets like Hockey (less stable markets), and the commission structure change that was advertised as a good thing but to most people, ruined the ability to any real trading.

[bleedblue]

Vanzack,

Can you explain in more detail what happened? Was the halftime line left up too long, and then you tried to hedge your position on that halftime bet? Or something else?

[vanzack]

Vanzack,

Can you explain in more detail what happened? Was the halftime line left up too long, and then you tried to hedge your position on that halftime bet? Or something else?

As it turns out, I went back and investigated this (I was posting from memory) - and it turns out to be a lot less interesting than I remembered and posted above.

I bet a non-standard 2nd half market (because it was a playoff game there were several markets for different HT lines). I bet it thinking I was betting the standard HT line, and so I got a shitty price. After contacting MB about the confusion in the markets - they suggested that I cover on the live in game ML which I did. End result - I lost 68 bucks.

I think my conspiracy theories evolve from my confusing this incident with another incident at about the same time at another exchange.

My brain is fried - I need a break - glad football is almost over....

[coldhardfacts]

As it turns out, I went back and investigated this (I was posting from memory) - and it turns out to be a lot less interesting than I remembered and posted above.

I bet a non-standard 2nd half market (because it was a playoff game there were several markets for different HT lines). I bet it thinking I was betting the standard HT line, and so I got a shitty price. After contacting MB about the confusion in the markets - they suggested that I cover on the live in game ML which I did. End result - I lost 68 bucks.

I think my conspiracy theories evolve from my confusing this incident with another incident at about the same time at another exchange.

My brain is fried - I need a break - glad football is almost over....

No problem. We're all a little burnt out with all of the bowls/NFL/CBB/NHL/NBA. Great time of year but definitely stressful. Thanks for clearing it up.

[blix177]

Even the BCS champ game isn't seeing a lot of action. I was expecting to see 5 figures per side, and upper 4 figures on total.

[hhsilver]

right now, 1.5 hrs to kickoff, I see a lot of money in some of the markets for this game - some 4 figures - some 5. But I've been watching the amts being stagnant - all offers , no takers. I suppose that will change as it gets closer to game time

[Jaug]

I think alot of people are expecting linemove on alabama texas.

[ArunSh]

Football has been great, wish I could say same about Basketball...