Why is liquidity on Matchbook so poor?

[Jaug]

From my experience the only sport that has good liquidity atm is NFL. I think the liquidity is too good there since I don't like to take odds but rather lay them and skip the commission.

On the other hand the liquidity in ncaab is really poor.

[Scooter]

Change in commission structure, I think, explains this. When it was only charged on net winnings, traders/market makers would happily put up offers. Now that it is charged on unmatched offers.....................

"Now that it is charged on unmatched offers....."


Dunder - "If the bet is not matched, you lose ...(commission)"






You state this several times in this thread.


There is no charge on unmatched offers.

Surprised no one else has pointed this out by now.

[aggie]

2) Laying a bet

Matchbook charges 1% commission on the amount offered if your bet is NOT matched, but will pay you (in commission credits) 0.2% if your offer is matched.

Suppose you have a lean toward Team A and therefore lay Team B at odds of +100. Again, it is -110 each side at your normal book.

If the bet is not matched, you lose $1.00 (commission)

since when do you pay on unmatched bets?

[aggie]

Surprised no one else has pointed this out by now.

i was surprised myself. if not for looking down the thread if someone did, i would be quicker and actually first to post this.

this dunder dude is an idiot

[Scooter]

The exchange would not have one offer if there was a 1% charge for unmatched offers, as Dunder states.

[Dunder]

"Now that it is charged on unmatched offers....."


Dunder - "If the bet is not matched, you lose ...(commission)"

You state this several times in this thread.

There is no charge on unmatched offers.

Surprised no one else has pointed this out by now.

My mistake, sorry.

[Igetp2s]

I would like to see Matchbook allow more customization for watching different markets. If I was interested in an NFL game and an NBA game, you need to either open up 2 different windows or keep on going back and forth. There shouldn't be any reason that you couldn't customize your viewing window to watch any market you want from any sport.

Would make things a lot easier.

[Pokerjoe]

3) People with homemade software interfaces at MB have a huge advantage over anyone trying to bet via the MB software itself.
???????

can you explain this? not sure what it means. thanbk you

There are players--if not MB itself--who MUST have an interface faster and better than what we schmucks have to use, because lines move too quickly there. Faster than bets could even be typed.

What I mean is, someone or some group or, most likely, Matchy itself, has a program tracking the lines at major outs, so that as soon as the market changes, they can pick off our offers. If an NBA total, say, is 205 across the board, and you have an offer in at 205, and then boom, it drops to 204 at Pinny, your 205 at MB will be instantly picked off. Picked off faster than someone could have clicked a button and typed in an amount. And most importantly, picked off faster than you could delete your offer.

There is no doubt that the speed with which the market reacts there is automated, and I strongly suspect it is MB itself doing the picking off. I mean, they've got the mainframe in their control.

[Pokerjoe]

No argument with points 1) and 3) but 2) is not accurate. When commission levels are taken into account, the difference is actually smaller on average.

Dunder, let me clarify.

When Betfair first started, asian handicap was still a bit outre, and the typical punter was playing into 3-ways with huge juice. Unbelievable juice in fact.

Betfair was the best, safest, most user-friendly way around that, so when they opened, they got busy in a hurry.

Critical mass is everything for an exchange. Because they got busy, they've stayed busy. Now, the market is dramatically different than it was at Betfair's open (partly because of Betfair's opening, and partly because of increased comfort with asian handicap betting, and access to it).

MB, not being present years ago (partly because the juice on US sports was so much lower than the juice on Euro-facing sports that the demand) didn't open in a vacuum, so to speak (although Betfair faced other exchanges, it was natural that really only one would survive; the critical mass thing, again).

MB opened in a time when there was already a major exhange with greater liquidity. To get liquidity, you have to have liquidity. It's a catch 22.

So to answer your question, MB doesn't have liquidity because ... it doesn't have liquidity. It lacks critical mass.

[reno cool]

My mistake, sorry.

good. I was beginning to think I was an idiot, not knowing I was being charged for unmatched offers.

[jebe99]

The problems are:

1. Players looking for bonuses...(in the long run , a dumb idea)
2. Players playing parlays, which MB doesn't offer...(I don't know one professional bettor who plays parlays. Do the math, they're losing propositions)

I've been telling people to open up accounts at exchanges like MB for years.
If we can get more people involved, we will have more liquidity.
But sadly, too many people fall to the trappings described above.

It really is frustrating sometime when you make an offer of a few thousand on college baskets and even nba, and you can't get the bets matched.

[BubbleBobble]

Maybe because they only take USD.

Everyone outside the U.S. hates the $ right now, cause it gets weaker and weaker compared to the Euro and other currencies too...
And everyone *inside* the U.S. is bothered with the ****ass law. Now do the maths, how many people are left that are in the U.S. who didn't give up gambling yet + are aware of Matchbook + are not people who only wait for Arbs poping up...
and there you go, that's why "normal" offers often are not matched.

[Mikelo]

Yes, the only reason I don't bet at matchbook is because they don't offer Euro accounts.

[rm18]

parlays are not losing propositions if both bets are good bets

[rm18]

but usually a bad idea because you can get a better line somewhere else, unless it is a related parlay

[BubbleBobble]

Can you please get the **** out of this thread with your nonsense spamming, stay in the main forum...

[Max009]

The problems are:

1. Players looking for bonuses...(in the long run , a dumb idea)
2. Players playing parlays, which MB doesn't offer...(I don't know one professional bettor who plays parlays. Do the math, they're losing propositions)

I've been telling people to open up accounts at exchanges like MB for years.
If we can get more people involved, we will have more liquidity.
But sadly, too many people fall to the trappings described above.

It really is frustrating sometime when you make an offer of a few thousand on college baskets and even nba, and you can't get the bets matched.

You can do parlays at MB. You just have to use Parlaymakers. Best parlay prices available.

[sinkhole]

There are players--if not MB itself--who MUST have an interface faster and better than what we schmucks have to use, because lines move too quickly there. Faster than bets could even be typed. What I mean is, someone or some group or, most likely, Matchy itself, has a program tracking the lines at major outs, so that as soon as the market changes, they can pick off our offers. If an NBA total, say, is 205 across the board, and you have an offer in at 205, and then boom, it drops to 204 at Pinny, your 205 at MB will be instantly picked off. Picked off faster than someone could have clicked a button and typed in an amount. And most importantly, picked off faster than you could delete your offer. There is no doubt that the speed with which the market reacts there is automated, and I strongly suspect it is MB itself doing the picking off. I mean, they've got the mainframe in their control.

This is 100% true!

[trumpdown]

There are players--if not MB itself--who MUST have an interface faster and better than what we schmucks have to use, because lines move too quickly there. Faster than bets could even be typed.

What I mean is, someone or some group or, most likely, Matchy itself, has a program tracking the lines at major outs, so that as soon as the market changes, they can pick off our offers. If an NBA total, say, is 205 across the board, and you have an offer in at 205, and then boom, it drops to 204 at Pinny, your 205 at MB will be instantly picked off. Picked off faster than someone could have clicked a button and typed in an amount. And most importantly, picked off faster than you could delete your offer.

There is no doubt that the speed with which the market reacts there is automated, and I strongly suspect it is MB itself doing the picking off. I mean, they've got the mainframe in their control.

I agree to this completely as I witnessed this first hand recently. I made a mistake late one night in-game and not even a nano second after I offered it was picked off. I have extremely fast internet and there was no possible way anyone could have saw my most generous offer and matched before I saw my mistake and tried to delete it. I asked Matchbook about potential "bots" and they neither admitted nor denied. It was a good lesson for me and thankfully not too cost prohibitive, but man was I pissed off.

I like Matchbook for many reasons (joined recently) but wish more started to play there. For those vets in the know is the site growing or fading? I hear answers on both sides of the fence.

[Karayilan9]

As an neophyte American better who knows next to nothing about exchanges, what's a good resource to read up on the differences?

From the above it sounds like... if I put a bet on some game for $100 at -110 odds, I pay a commission up front so only part of my $100 is put towards the bet? If/when someone accepts the bet... I get that commission back?

I like exchanges, alot of books put ridiculous limits on soccer wagers if you know what your doing, the exchanges usually don't, also you can make money before the game has started, the in-game trading also makes it easier to wrap up games. The lay option is the biggest difference. Comission is annoying but everything has its pro's and con's, the paylay/teaser options are not great either.

[mminkovski]

Yes, the only reason I don't bet at matchbook is because they don't offer Euro accounts.

same here

[ArunSh]

Liquidity doesn't seem as good this year I agree, but hard for me to call it "poor" either, I guess it depends on what you bet. On NBA games there seems to be fairly good action on the spreads + money lines, the totals aren't so great unfortunately.

[Dark Horse]

You can do parlays at MB. You just have to use Parlaymakers. Best parlay prices available.

Where is parlaymakers?

[Johnny 55]

This is a pretty simple solution. If Matchbook accepted Western Union and Moneygram there liquidity would improve tremendously. Also, if I were them I would try to arrange relationships with nearly every reputable sportsbook to do book to book transfers with. They do book to book with a couple places but they should increase, it would just allow people to get money in there easier. People want simplicity and reliability with money movement and to not provide it just costs them money in the long term. If they offered more of a rebate for offering their liquidity would increase as well.

[miektheman]

yeah, i have no doubt bots are in use. if you have an offer out you need to be watching it like a hawke.

[Dunder]

Dunder, let me clarify.

When Betfair first started, asian handicap was still a bit outre, and the typical punter was playing into 3-ways with huge juice. Unbelievable juice in fact.

Betfair was the best, safest, most user-friendly way around that, so when they opened, they got busy in a hurry.

Critical mass is everything for an exchange. Because they got busy, they've stayed busy. Now, the market is dramatically different than it was at Betfair's open (partly because of Betfair's opening, and partly because of increased comfort with asian handicap betting, and access to it).

MB, not being present years ago (partly because the juice on US sports was so much lower than the juice on Euro-facing sports that the demand) didn't open in a vacuum, so to speak (although Betfair faced other exchanges, it was natural that really only one would survive; the critical mass thing, again).

MB opened in a time when there was already a major exhange with greater liquidity. To get liquidity, you have to have liquidity. It's a catch 22.

So to answer your question, MB doesn't have liquidity because ... it doesn't have liquidity. It lacks critical mass.

I don´t disagree with anything you have written, but that fact remains that Matchbook has a captive market, individuals who are not allowed to use the dominant exchange.

I would never expect Matchbook to be able to compete with Betfair, but for US Sports, I see no reason why a well run and operated exchange should not be able to carve out a similar share of that captive market that Betfair has for soccer, tennis, cricket, horse racing etc. Could be that I am overestimating the size of the market?

There are some very good points raised in this thread:

Attraction of bonuses at offshore books
Poor functionality of the site
Disadvantage versus those using bots or software with API access
Lack of familiarity with exchange betting

To clarify, I have a selfish reason for asking these questions. I had intended to make a proposal to Matchbook which would have involved me deploying a bot of my own (which doesn´t exist yet) to seed all matchbook markets. This would involve a lot of work and capital but based on my own observations and the responses here I am not sure that it is a viable idea.

[Max009]

Where is parlaymakers?

https://www.parlaymakers.com

[Chuck Sims]

How do these bots work? Are they able to be first in line to catch all mistake offers or any other offers that are +EV?

I sometimes make offers that never make it on the screen. Its accepted while the teams offer square remained blank during the transaction.

[Dunder]

How do these bots work? Are they able to be first in line to catch all mistake offers or any other offers that are +EV?

I sometimes make offers that never make it on the screen. Its accepted while the teams offer square remained blank during the transaction.

Bots which have API access will almost certainly be first to get the best offers (including mistakes).

A bot is a program which makes or takes offers based on whatever parameters are set by the user.

Direct access to the API (bypassing the matchbook.com website) allows the user or bot to ´see´offers made almost immediately. This does mean that a bot will often have accepted your offer, or part of it, before the matchbook.com screen refreshes.

[Chuck Sims]

Thanks Dunder.

[durito]

the matchbook api is generally available to anyone that asks for it

[UV82]

Certainly many fewer markets makers now at Matchbook then in the past.

Why is that JoshW?

[philswin]

Best way to fund matchbook is a book to book transfer. Fund Moneygram to 5 Dimes (think a 1x rollover) and transfer to Matchbook. Keep some in 5Dimes to compare lines. Matchbook better 80 - 90% of the time.

[bleedblue]

Why is that JoshW?

This was basically answered already. The commission structure used to be so that you only paid commission on what you won. Now you pay commission on every offer you accept.

Under old structure, if you bet 10K at +102 on both sides, you win $200 and pay $4 in commission. Under the new commission structure (assuming you were accepting offers), you would win $200 and pay $200 in commission. Not ideal for a market maker/scalper.

[_Stat_]

I get owned everytime i bet there, thats why I dont help the liquidity.