Why is liquidity on Matchbook so poor?

[Dunder]

So, it´s arguably the biggest regular season game of the NFL season. I had no lean either way, so I decided to do some trading on Betfair. About 2 hours ago, I had an uncomfortably high exposure to the Pats +2.5 (about GBP 2,400) and decided to look for ways to offset. I couldn´t get any significant help at any book, but did manage to reduce that exposure at Matchbook.

What struck me though, was that the activity and liquidty at Matchbook was considerably less than at Betair. The two screenshots below were taken 20 seconds apart (bear in mind that the Betfair figures are in GBP).

How an this be? Most Betfair users have access to a much wider range of books and yet even for a minority sport (in Europe) it can generate greater liquidity than Matchbook can.

I am interested to know from Americans who do not use Matchbook, why they don´t use it. Afterall the lines/odds there are consistently and considerably better than at any of the offshore books (in most cases they are better than Pinny even accounting for commission).

[tltaylor89]

because Nicky Santoro is at Betphoenix tonight

[Dunder]

because Nicky Santoro is at BetPhoenix tonight

[Stumpage]

Could be worse.....BetFair have suspended all markets on the game since just before kickoff.

[Dunder]

Could be worse.....BetFair have suspended all markets on the game since just before kickoff.

It is normally only the matches that are televised in the UK which are turned in-play. This game (inexplicably) is not on TV in the UK.

[JoshW]

Certainly many fewer markets makers now at Matchbook then in the past.

[Fishhead]

because Nicky Santoro is at Betphoenix tonight

I could tell you something else but you wouldn't believe me so screw it.

[tltaylor89]

No do tell Fishy

[Stumpage]

It is normally only the matches that are televised in the UK which are turned in-play. This game (inexplicably) is not on TV in the UK.

Wow, that is inexplicable...In any event, BetFair is down for the evening/early morning (Scheduled maintenance...Ouch)

[Dunder]

Certainly many fewer markets makers now at Matchbook then in the past.

Change in commission structure, I think, explains this. When it was only charged on net winnings, traders/market makers would happily put up offers. Now that it is charged on unmatched offers.....................

[patswin]

less market makers seeding the markets

[Dunder]

Wow, that is inexplicable...In any event, BetFair is down for the evening/early morning (Scheduled maintenance...Ouch)

I could not believe it when I saw the listings. No great loss for me in the end, I have an (almost) HD stream.

[hhsilver]

i don't understand why anyone would be a market maker at MB. It seems the offers get matched only if the line moves enough. so the market maker is left hoping the line will move the other way.

It wasn't like this before the commission change. I learned fast not to make offers if the object to get arbs. Almost every time someone accepts your offer, it's because the line moved.

[Dunder]

less market makers seeding the markets

To the extent that you can´t get a decent sized bet on? It is my impression that more often than not it is a lack of bettors, not layers that is the problem.

[Dunder]

i don't understand why anyone would be a market maker at MB. It seems the offers get matched only if the line moves enough. so the market maker is left hoping the line will move the other way.

It wasn't like this before the commission change. I learned fast not to make offers if the object to get arbs. Almost every time someone accepts your offer, it's because the line moved.

That is certainly how I see it. So back to my original question why don´t more folks place their bets (I am thinking mostly of those in the USD 100-1000 range) at Matchbook?

[mminkovski]

Many EU and Asian bookies cover their open positions at Betfair while market makers of American books are way better and do not leave "sleeping" lines that much so they don't need to cover. The big liquidity is only on popular events - games in top 5 soccer leagues and some US sports. Also, Betfair have massive marketing campaign within Europe, while I've only heard about Matchbook at this forum.

[Dunder]

Many EU and Asian bookies cover their open positions at Betfair while market makers of American books are way better and do not leave "sleeping" lines that much so they don't need to cover. The big liquidity is only on popular events - games in top 5 soccer leagues and some US sports.

This may or may not be true, but does not answer my question

Given that Americans have such a limited choice of books, why is Matchbook not more popular than it is?

I note your point on marketing, but isn´t this also true for The Greek, 5Dimes etc?

[Johnny 55]

I think in general American sports bettors are extraordinarily dumb, everyone who plays should have a Matchbook account and a large percentage of their bankroll placed at Match. The lure of bonuses definitely has something to do with it as people are seduced by the short term gain, also, Matchbook can be a bit intimidating and slightly confusing to a novice sports bettor with its commission structure and completely different business concept. The new commission structure needs to be reviewed, you should get a much larger rebate when your bet is accepted, it would improve liquidity tremendously.

[Waiting4Godot]

As an neophyte American better who knows next to nothing about exchanges, what's a good resource to read up on the differences?

From the above it sounds like... if I put a bet on some game for $100 at -110 odds, I pay a commission up front so only part of my $100 is put towards the bet? If/when someone accepts the bet... I get that commission back?

[Dunder]

As an neophyte American better who knows next to nothing about exchanges, what's a good resource to read up on the differences?

From the above it sounds like... if I put a bet on some game for $100 at -110 odds, I pay a commission up front so only part of my $100 is put towards the bet? If/when someone accepts the bet... I get that commission back?

Well if you are a bettor, rather then a layer, would would most likely be taking an offer that´s already been made, but the two examples below should clarify:

1) Making a bet.

Odds at your normal book are -110

Odds at Matchbook would typically be -101 to -103 (let´s use -102)
You would pay commission to Matchbook of 1% of the amount bet (or to win, whichever is lower).

Therefore if your bet loses you lose $100.98 after commission
If you bet wins, you win $97.05 ($98.03 - commission)

2) Laying a bet

Matchbook charges 1% commission on the amount offered if your bet is NOT matched, but will pay you (in commission credits) 0.2% if your offer is matched.

Suppose you have a lean toward Team A and therefore lay Team B at odds of +100. Again, it is -110 each side at your normal book.

If the bet is not matched, you lose $1.00 (commission)

If the bet is matched and Team B wins, you lose $99.80 (i.e. you gain $0.20 in comm credits).

If the bet is matched and Team A wins, you win $100.20 ($100 from the bettor, plus $0.20 in commission credits).

[KC]

You pay a small commision if you accept an offer and earn an even smaller commision if your offer is accepted.

[Dark Horse]

Matchbook doesn't listen to suggestions. They're learning all the Tradesports lessons the hard way.

- The site should be more interactive, where it comes to non-trading. Include a forum, and trading pit.
- Not user-friendly enough. The site should have an educational section that shows everyone how easy it is. For live trading, they have percentages (players can switch to a 0-100 scale, which is very useful, because that is the percentage-based probability scale we are used to in our heads), but have they even tried to educate the public about this feature? No!
The layout also lacks in user-friendliness. You should be able to see all you trades and unmatched offers on one page.

I could go on.

[katstale]

Keep at it DH. Plenty of times you think the books are not listening, but every once in a while they are. I can think of 2 or 3 times BBD and I kept at it and got some suggestions, but it did take 1 1/2 years of whining in some cases.

AND, if Matchbook won't listen. Send your ideas to Richard over at Phoenix. His team working on their exchange might be in a position to incorporate good ideas at this stage of their development.

How abt that Richard? Novel idea? Get player suggestions from this forum to pass on to your design team working on your exchange? No better advertising in the world than that.

[Fishhead]

Liquidity at MB will increase dramatically come DEC. 15th or thereabouts............


Be prepared, have your account funded.

[ryanjep]

matchbook use to be the go to book for about 90% of the games out there, its a shame its come to this

[Dark Horse]

Keep at it DH. Plenty of times you think the books are not listening, but every once in a while they are. I can think of 2 or 3 times BBD and I kept at it and got some suggestions, but it did take 1 1/2 years of whining in some cases.

AND, if Matchbook won't listen. Send your ideas to Richard over at Phoenix. His team working on their exchange might be in a position to incorporate good ideas at this stage of their development.

How abt that Richard? Novel idea? Get player suggestions from this forum to pass on to your design team working on your exchange? No better advertising in the world than that.

Betphoenix is very open to suggestions. I've seen that on numerous occasions. (because the suggestions were mine. lol)

MB doesn't strike me as a very dynamic organization. A year or more for an idea to get through? You can't afford to be slow in the world of trading. You have to be nimble and quick. Educate the people. Show them how to use the platform. Advertise it as fun and easy. Show examples of live trading strategies. Add 'good until' timing to offers. If I want to make an offer for the next 15 minutes, I should be able to do so without canceling.

With all of today's technology how hard could it really be to educate people? Post short (10 minutes) instructional videos on SBR with different types of trades, and show the advantages over traditional betting.

MB has done many things right. But it takes a particular kind of management to keep moving forward. Once they get in the 'let's change the fee structure' grind, chances are they've run out of better ideas. Tradesports did the same thing, and it didn't work.

[Chuck Sims]

Matchbook had plenty of liquidity closer to game time. During live betting you had offers of more than $30,000 on the Saints or NE.

The reason more people are not betting at MB is other books offer bonuses. If bettors would only realize the savings on juice far outweighs any bonus.

[Pokerjoe]

1) Hard to fund MB
2) The difference between Betfair odds and other Euro book's odds is way greater than the difference, if any, between MB and all the other US-facing books.
3) People with homemade software interfaces at MB have a huge advantage over anyone trying to bet via the MB software itself.

[Dunder]

1) Hard to fund MB
2) The difference between Betfair odds and other Euro book's odds is way greater than the difference, if any, between MB and all the other US-facing books.
3) People with homemade software interfaces at MB have a huge advantage over anyone trying to bet via the MB software itself.

No argument with points 1) and 3) but 2) is not accurate. When commission levels are taken into account, the difference is actually smaller on average.

[Dunder]

Keep at it DH. Plenty of times you think the books are not listening, but every once in a while they are. I can think of 2 or 3 times BBD and I kept at it and got some suggestions, but it did take 1 1/2 years of whining in some cases.

AND, if Matchbook won't listen. Send your ideas to Richard over at Phoenix. His team working on their exchange might be in a position to incorporate good ideas at this stage of their development.

How abt that Richard? Novel idea? Get player suggestions from this forum to pass on to your design team working on your exchange? No better advertising in the world than that.

As a rule, the more liquidity you can pool, the more efficient a market is. There isn´t room in this market for two successful exchanges´. If BP are planning an exchange, it´s entire business plan must revolve around supplanting Matchbook.

[Fishhead]

EVERYONE here should be funded at Matchbook

[miektheman]

3) People with homemade software interfaces at MB have a huge advantage over anyone trying to bet via the MB software itself.
???????

can you explain this? not sure what it means. thanbk you

[Dunder]

EVERYONE here should be funded at Matchbook

[OffshoreGuru]

It would appear that if the american market was better educated on exchanges then maybe the liquidity would improve. I have a friend who lives in a country that is not banned by betfiar, and it appears that one could do very well playing college hoops and bases there. Heres hoping BetPhoenix gets it. When is thier project coming online?

[bookie]

Liquidity at MB will increase dramatically come DEC. 15th or thereabouts............

What happens on 12/15 or thereabout?

I hate these cryptic I-know-something-you-don't-know-but-I-can't-say-because-it's such-a-big-secret type of posts.