10bet theft HELP

[Stifter]

I see, so you are saying that those two transactions on Nov 9th are 10Bet refunding your initial CC deposits whereas they say that this money was never received by them. I am certainly no expert on these things - can anyone advise what you need to prove that a merchant received funds or that such a refund was actually initiated by the merchant?

I'm no expert either (I don't even have a CC), but I really want to help in this case against those criminals. I think the best thing to proof it is to compare the exact time of deposit with 10bet with a statement from the CC-company where they explicitly state that the transactions were authorized and good. I guess that is not so hard. I suppose if you explain the CC-company you have an issue with another company, they are willing to assist.

GL.

[cooler]

I'm no expert either (I don't even have a CC), but I really want to help in this case against those criminals. I think the best thing to proof it is to compare the exact time of deposit with 10bet with a statement from the CC-company where they explicitly state that the transactions were authorized and good. I guess that is not so hard. I suppose if you explain the CC-company you have an issue with another company, they are willing to assist. GL.

Only proof for deposit is money on 10bet acc and from my cc company it's my bank pictures what I am upload .

[cooler]

When I pay something vith my cc that deposit first go in reseved money. Affter couple day 2-3 maximun transaction is finis. When 10bet charge back my cc my moneywas back on my **** cc.Becouse of that transaction like as never happen.Only what my bank can gave to me i have, it's code from 10bet.They are proof that 10bet have request money from my cc and take

[cooler]

??????????????????????????????

[Dunder]

Ivan.

Before proceeding, I would suggest you need to get something else from your credit card company. What they have given you, frankly doesn´t look like an official statement (even with the stamp).

If you are to go ahead with a complaint to the UK Gambling Commission (assuming 10Bet don´t pay up) you will need to provide something in writhing from your CC with states that those refunds were initiated by 10Bet and not the result of a failed transaction.

I suggest you speak to them and see what they can provide you with - advise them that you have a dispute with the company/merchant involved.

[Dunder]

Just spotted the below from 10Bet website. Note the section on ´reversals´which they only do with **** cards. Does anyone know how to verify with a credit card company/bank/processor how such a refund was initiated? It looks like, just by using a ****, the OP has unwittingly left 10Bet with a way to claim funds were not received.

3. Credit Card

[IMG]http://www.10bet.com/10BetClient/images/bottom-logos_****_big_01.gif[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.10bet.com/10BetClient/images/bottom-logos_**********_big_02.gif[/IMG]

Deposits

We accept **** and **********.

Using a credit card as your method of payment may require you to follow our authorization procedure - For deposits made using a credit card (**** and **********) we require the following to be on file:

- Copy of your driver's license or passport with photograph.
- Copy of front and back of credit card.

Withdrawals

Customers who made a deposit through a **** card can withdraw funds to the same **** card used for the deposit. Withdrawals cannot be made to Master Card.
Transaction timeeposits are credited immediately. Withdrawals require 2-5 days to be processed.


< body>< body>Reversals
For your convenience, instead of accepting a customer's credit card deposit and then processing a withdrawal (which entails charges for both parties), 10Bet may reverse the funds to your credit/debit card account. Whenever 10Bet reverses funds to a credit card, it is processed immediately by 10Bet.
However, credit card companies usually credit the card on the same date that the credit card statement is sent. Therefore, you may not see it immediately on your credit card statement or bank account.
We advise customers to verify receipt of returned funds with their local credit card supplier.
When issuing your credit card charges from your bank account, the credit card company sometimes deducts the refunds from the total monthly charge sum, so one may mistakenly assume they were not refunded. Please check the total monthly billing to make sure you were not charged for the reversed deposit.
Please note that no fees are charged for the deposit or the reversal.

[cooler]

.

I call and I was in my bank. They say that they can't give to me bank statement with 10bet transactions becouse 10 bet cansel my deposit and my money came back on myvisa card. When they cansel deposit transactions never happend. Only what bank can give to me I have that is that table with codes. There is proof that 10bet take for my cc money.

[cooler]

.

I call and I was in my bank. They say that they can't give to me bank statement with 10bet transactions becouse 10 bet cansel my deposit and my money came back on myvisa card. When they cansel deposit transactions never happend. Only what bank can give to me I have that is that table with codes. There is proof that 10bet take for my cc money.

???

[Dunder]

Ivan.

I, on your behalf, had a chat with someone from the UK Gambling Commission. Whilst they would be able to investigate your complaint, they can only do so after you have FULLY exhausted 10Bet´s complaints procedure.

I am still looking into this, but my understanding is that all bookmakers licensed in the UK must appoint an independent 3rd party to review complaints made if requested to do so by the customer.

I will look into it further and post something here tomorrow. As mentioned before though, I think it would help a lot if you can get a letter from your bank which states that these funds were returned/reversed by 10Bet.

Also, I would suggest completing the SBR complaint form, link below:

[cooler]

.

Ivan.

I, on your behalf, had a chat with someone from the UK Gambling Commission. Whilst they would be able to investigate your complaint, they can only do so after you have FULLY exhausted 10Bet´s complaints procedure.

I am still looking into this, but my understanding is that all bookmakers licensed in the UK must appoint an independent 3rd party to review complaints made if requested to do so by the customer.

I will look into it further and post something here tomorrow. As mentioned before though, I think it would help a lot if you can get a letter from your bank which states that these funds were returned/reversed by 10Bet.

Also, I would suggest completing the SBR complaint form, link below:

I am completed the SBR complaint form 2 times.

I will call my bank again but they can give to me that codes which is a proof that 10bet have request money from my cc and that was approved and successful from my cc company.
They maybe write something but they only can write same this.

Becouse that is virtual transaction. Money was reserved from 10bet affter couple days they cancel requestand money cam back to my cc. They can't write something what never happend.

[Dunder]

Ivan.

For the moment, I would suggest you write the following to 10Bet:

Username: xxxx

Further to your previous email. I am aware that the funds were never actually received by you. This, however is because in line with the below policy stated on your website, you have chosen to reverse funds back to my **** card.

quote for your website
For your convenience, instead of accepting a customer's credit card deposit and then processing a withdrawal (which entails charges for both parties), 10Bet may reverse the funds to your credit/debit card account.
end quote

This is not a theory, it is a fact which is confirmed by my bank.

As a condition of your license, issued by the United Kingdom Gambling Authority, you are required to appoint an independent 3rd party to investigate and resolve customer complaints.

I am requesting that you consider this as a formal complaint which I wish to be referred to your independent 3rd Party. I trust that they will establish contact with me, however I would also appreciate if you can provide their contact details.

Yours sincerely,
------------------------------

[cooler]

Ivan.

For the moment, I would suggest you write the following to 10Bet:

Username: xxxx

Further to your previous email. I am aware that the funds were never actually received by you. This, however is because in line with the below policy stated on your website, you have chosen to reverse funds back to my **** card.

quote for your website
For your convenience, instead of accepting a customer's credit card deposit and then processing a withdrawal (which entails charges for both parties), 10Bet may reverse the funds to your credit/debit card account.
end quote

This is not a theory, it is a fact which is confirmed by my bank.

As a condition of your license, issued by the United Kingdom Gambling Authority, you are required to appoint an independent 3rd party to investigate and resolve customer complaints.

I am requesting that you consider this as a formal complaint which I wish to be referred to your independent 3rd Party. I trust that they will establish contact with me, however I would also appreciate if you can provide their contact details.

Yours sincerely,
------------------------------

I sent new e-mail now to 10bet, but answer will be same:'Sorry but we don't received yours deposit...."

[Dunder]

I sent new e-mail now to 10bet, but answer will be same:'Sorry but we don't received yours deposit...."

You are probably right, but as mentioned the UK Gambling Commission will only look at a complaint if you have exhausted 10Bet´s complaints procedure.

[cooler]

They answer to me:
Dear I Mitrovic,

Your complaint was transfered to our management. You will contacted by e-mail as soon as possible.

For any further assistance please do not hesitate to contact us.

Regards,

10BET Customer Service Team



Tel - ++ 44 (0)8456586010

Fax - ++ 44 (0)8707518588

[cooler]

Dear Ivan

As we explained you before, the problem with your deposit was the fact that the deposits were not captured through the *********** company and we were not able to debit it.
Our accounts department tried to contact you on the phone you registered with for the last few days and there was a message saying that the number does not exist (0038167...21.), only after we have emailed you again today about this issue you came back to us with a different number and you did not mention why did you register with a non existing number.
We will contact you in the next 24 hours so you can answer some questions regarding this issue.
You can contact IBAS and file an official complain as they are our arbitrators.

For any further assistance please do not hesitate to contact us.

Regards,

10BET Customer Service Team


Tel - ++ 44 (0)8456586010

Fax - ++ 44 (0)8707518588




This is a last mail from 10bet.

I always register mobile what I don't using becouse I don't speak English and I feel bed what some sportbook call me and I don't understand nothing.For contact i using e-mail but they need mobile...

[Dunder]

10Bet are not listed as being registered with IBAS!

Anyway, to the best of my knowledge IBAS will only adjudicate issues which relate to disputed bets. I am not at all sure that disputed financial transactions are covered. I will try to check with them later today.

[sinkhole]

shit book

[cooler]

Dear Ivan

In relationship to the credit card issue you have with us.
We have stated clearly the reason for the problem with your deposit, when you tried to withdraw and you were not able to do it through credit card we saw that the reason was the fact that for some reason your credit card deposit was not approved by the credit card company.
When we are facing such cases which are very rare we immediately try to call the customer to find out what is wrong .
Our accounts department tried to call the number you registered with for a few days and they only had a message saying the number does not exist.
Only yesterday you emailed us upon our request a different telephone number that is totally different from the one you registered with.
Please see our below rules:
It is the client's responsibility to ensure his/her records are kept up to date -specifically: address, telephone number and payment/bank details.
10Bet reserves the right to void any bet that may have been accepted when the account did not have sufficient funds to cover the bet. If an account has insufficient funds as a result of a deposit that has been cancelled by the payment processing party, 10Bet reserves the right to cancel any bet that may have been accepted retroactively.

If you still want to take this case forward to IBAS you are welcome to do so and we will forward them all necessary information we have on your account.

For any further assistance please do not hesitate to contact us.

Regards,

10BET Customer Service Team




))))) Now they have argument why thay lock my account and why they cancel all my bets. With this e-mail they show real face. They just steal my money and look something what they use like argument to steal money.

[Dunder]

Yes you are right. As mentioned before you are going to have to PROVE that 10Bet reversed the transaction as opposed to it having been rejected. The telephone number issue certainly does not help.

I sent IBAS an email today as to whether they are able to adjudicate issues relating to disputed financial transactions, it was quite late so I would guess no reply until Monday.

[cooler]

It's excellence and I waiting your answer

[cooler]

Do you have maybe some information ?

[Dunder]

Hi Ivan.

No reply from IBAS yet. I will ask you one last time whether it is possible to get a letter from you bank stating that those transactions are reversals and not a failed transactions. It will be 10 times easier to make your case, than with the statements you currently have.

[Dunder]

Still no response. I will try to call them tomorrow.

[DogPlayer]

Ivan,

Call your bank or go in.

Tell your bank that you need a letter from them stating that the initial transaction to 10bet was approved by them and 10bet later reversed the charge.

If you get this letter signed by a manager at your bank you will win this case I would also pay a few extra dollars to have it notarized at the bank (proving that the bank manager signed it). If you do not get this letter from your bank you will probably never see the funds.

[Dunder]

Well I got something back from IBAS. Apparently they can mediate a dispute concerning financial transactions.
They have also been in contact wit 10Bet, albeit I am not sure what about given that they don´t have you account details.

They have promised to send me further information tomorrow, from there we can work out the best way to proceed.

For the SBR team, has anyone taken up Ivan´s complaint from your side? If so any progress?

[cooler]

I call my bank today and ask them to write that mail with information what we need , they told me I must wait one day for answer. i will have more info tommorow.
One more proof is pictures of my **** card and transactions to 10bet from **** web sites.

[UV82]

If you think about it , this is an amazing story.

there are 2 possible scenario here:

Scenario 1

1. A book accpets money from a clients by credit card... surely this is an automated process... a credit card transaction is either approved or disapproved cannot be half approved.

2. The player sits with credit in his 10bet account and places a bet...
3. The bet wins
4. 10Bet sees that the bet wins and they reverse the financial transaction with their bank claiming that in fact it is in fact not them but the clienst bank.
5. 10Bet reverses the winning at the same time claiming that player played with money which he did not in fact have.

but there is a posibility of scenario # 2:

1. Client depoits with 10Bet using credit card and transaction is approved.
2. Client places a bet with 10Bet and game goes against him so he asks his bank for a ********** - claiming that card was stolen etc...
3. Game turns around in his favor and he now claims winnings saying that he had a valid deposit but 10bet reveresed the transaction.

who knows?

well, parties will have to show hard proof of who cancelled the transaction... that surely couldnt be too difficult.

[DogPlayer]

The credit card transaction he posted shows decent/believable proof...

These transactions are done by computers and if their processor did decline it the computer never would have given you the funds.

These things are done by computers the computer works in absolutes... either it gets an approved message from 10bets card processor and puts money into your account or it gets a declined message from 10bets card processor and does not put money in. There is no gray area its just not possible, they screwed you and they owe you money.

However, the one thing that may have happened is Ivan may have tried to pull a fast one. Put funds in won money requested a withdrawal and then tried to do a charge back hoping to get a couple hundred extra bucks out of the deal. Ivan I'm not saying you did this but without a letter from your bank saying who reversed the charge you don't have much of a case. And honestly if he did this he would have to be retarded not to wait for the cash to clear from 10bet before issuing the charge back.

Edit: upon further examination if 10bet did actually send him an email saying the card was declined then they are obviously the ones trying to pull the fast one...

[Toit]

As a bookie you have to be completely retarded to pull a trick like this, it'll kill them if the regulator rules in favour of the person complaining.

[Dunder]

OK Ivan, that looks much better. We still need to wait for the letter from your bank.

I have sent you a PM with my email address, I will draft an email for you to send to IBAS once you have everything. It is probably best that the contents of this are not posted in a public forum. In the meantime, can you send me a copy of all the correspondence you have had with 10Bet.

[Cyntax]

Oh crap! After reading this thread I decided to cash out my 11164 SEK from 10bet.
I don't care about the bonus. I just want my money... NOW!

Pray for me guys!

[Dunder]

Scenario 1

1. A book accpets money from a clients by credit card... surely this is an automated process... a credit card transaction is either approved or disapproved cannot be half approved.

Actually it appears that this is exactly what 10Bet are claiming i.e. that they had the authorisation code but when they, later attempted to debit the funds, the transaction was unsuccessful.

In their last message to Ivan, they say that this happens in a very small percentage of cases.

Like you, I find this very hard to believe (to say the least).

[Dunder]

As a bookie you have to be completely retarded to pull a trick like this, it'll kill them if the regulator rules in favour of the person complaining.

It does seem odd.

Going OT, Toit. Are you in the UK?. I ask because I note from the "Withdrawals" thread that you withdrew money from Interwetten using MoneyBookers. I can´t use MB there, they say it is not an option for UK customers.

[Cyntax]

I can confirm that 10bet are a bunch of idiots.
If anyone is thinking of depositing ... DON'T!

[Toit]

Going OT, Toit. Are you in the UK?. I ask because I note from the "Withdrawals" thread that you withdrew money from Interwetten using MoneyBookers. I can´t use MB there, they say it is not an option for UK customers.

Hi Dunder, I live on the mainland.
No moneybookers problems where I reside.