AVOID Bodog live betting!

**MexicanStallion** · 09-14-09, 11:57 PM

That really sucks. I used Bodog shortly and I am not a fan. Always late on putting numbers and bad juice with it.

**rumple** · 09-15-09, 12:07 AM

You should fill out complain form, thats messed up!

**SBR Lou** · 09-15-09, 12:30 AM

wontootree,

Please submit the details of this in a sportsbook complaint form.

**andywend** · 09-15-09, 04:35 AM

Wontootree, it sounds like you were using a radio with a very good feed and picking them off on "what will the next play be".

BoDog knows when you are using a faster feed than them when you bet the next play will be a rush and you win 50 in a row.

Your BoDog live limits did NOT get reduced from $100 to $1 because you complained. Your limit got reduced because you were past posting them with your faster radio feed.

**wontootree** · 09-15-09, 08:55 AM

Sounds like we have Bodog employees posting here. I'm new here and didn't know it wasn't just for the players. As I said earlier, the radio may be a little ahead of TV, but only enough to tell you the formation the team is in. Stay tuned because if my limits are not reset I will be posting ALL my tips for beating their live betting service. If I am not allowed to use them, the rest of the world might as well do so... at least until they have to shut down the service. For now I will tell you all that even though the radio isn't ahead of the game enough to provide past post information, you can listen to a game on radio while watching on TV (even though we really were drinking outside ALL DAY during the game in dispute and not doing this, the weather was unbelievable!) because the announcers will report things that TV announcers don't do right away. One great example is when one of the teams playing uses the wildcat in their offense. Radio announcers usually tell you when the starting QB heads to the sideline and the wildcat QB runs onto the field. Hmmmm, put me down for $100 on "Rush" and I like my chances. You will have this information WAY before the team even gets into the huddle, so they cannot accuse you of past post betting... though I'm sure they will find a way to do so anyway. Stay tuned for more sports fans.

**themajormt** · 09-15-09, 09:20 AM

Andy you make no sense! So now you're saying the player can only use the feed Bodog uses?!?!?! If they want to offer live wagering then they need to get the fastest feed. Thats bullshit and you are an idiot for making such claims.

**Stumpage** · 09-15-09, 09:33 AM

Originally posted by andywend

BoDog knows when you are using a faster feed than them.....Your limit got reduced because you were past posting them with your faster radio feed.

Ok, but then what the hell archaic technology are Bodog using? They have some guy at the game communicating with Bodog basecamp using smoke signals to report each play? Or maybe the ol' 2 cups on each end of the world's longest piece of string?

The OP hasn't travelled back in time to cheat, he's simply using a radio, a technological advancement that Bodog apparently have not been made aware of as yet.

**wontootree** · 09-15-09, 09:46 AM

Its nice to hear people agree with me! Bodog made me feel like I was some kind of criminal. Players have been using every technology possible for years to get any inside information they can on a game, but to Bodog they are fine and they guy drinking beers on the porch with the radio on is the true scammer. If this is illegal, why isn't it in their rules? They claim that in live betting, the start of the event is the start of the play and any wagers after this time can be cancelled. I put in my passing play bets when the announcer said the backfield was empty, or the halfback shifted out of the backfield, so again I ask how is this past post and even if it were, why were the 7 that I won past post, but the 7 that I lost (for $525) all perfectly legitimate and not cancelled as well? Just because the formation tells you it should be a passing play, I still had to guess on complete or incomplete.

**brandonsvsu** · 09-15-09, 12:53 PM

I already shared some of my experiences with Bodog Live betting in the "suspicious betting patterns" thread, but I guess I can share some more here:

After discovering that OTA TV is 2-3 seconds ahead of tv, I later discovered the following last year (these are all comparisons to Dish Network satellite feed):

Westwood One audio feed 5 seconds ahead of MNF on ESPN
Westwood One audio feed 5 seconds ahead of Sunday Night Football on NBC
Westwood One audio feed 7 seconds ahead of East Coast games on FOX
Westwood One audio feed 14 seconds ahead of West Coast games on FOX
ESPN Radio audio feed 13 seconds ahead of certain ABC Saturday college football games

Thing is, there aren't many radio stations that broadcast a true live-time feed (any radio station that broadcasts in HD, which is quite a few stations these days, has a 7-second delay as well). But there are still some out there.

Bodog has a real problem here. They could take the lines down quicker but they'd lose more money by doing that then by simply monitoring the betting and reducing the limits of those they suspect getting the game on the radio. I too had my limit reduced to $1 (but not all at once - it went from 100 to 25 to 10 to 1)

The time delay was so ridiculous that I was hearing a complete pass while the lines were still up, you can make a quick $300 on a $100 bet. But be prepared for your limit to be reduced by halftime if you do that.
Or better yet - make $2500 on a turnover.

IMO, Bodog Live is something that won't be around much longer once word gets out that you can make a fortune on time delays.

**brandonsvsu** · 09-15-09, 12:56 PM

And as for past-post claims made by bodog - I had probably 10 bets canceled over the course of last season due to "past post betting" - what I found interesting is that every single time, those were winning bets. They NEVER canceled a LOSING bet due to "past post betting" So I think they're cheating people out of a lot of money - I think on all bets placed at the last second before the lines come down, they're canceling the winning bets and keeping the money from the losing bets.

What a scam.

EDIT - and one other thing that irritated me to no end - there were probably 5 to 10 times throughout the season where they settled the bet incorrectly (again, strange coincidence that it was ALWAYS on a winning bet and not a losing bet) and I would wait until several hours after the game was over, email them, and then only then would they fix the mistake. There is NO EXCUSE for bets to not be settled correctly the first time around, or least fixed within minutes WITHOUT ME HAVING TO CONTACT THEM HOURS LATER.

**wontootree** · 09-15-09, 01:31 PM

Well I had bets taken down for past post when the lines were still available a good 4 or 5 seconds after I placed my bet. Were all the people who placed bets after me also accused of past post betting, or was I singled out because I won money on the game? To me its no different that running a 50-50 with 1000 tickets, then refusing to pay the winner because there is no way he could have won without cheating when the odds were 1000 to 1 against him. They refuse to build into their model that there is a possibility that someone might win once in a while. They are taking greed to a whole new level.

**brandonsvsu** · 09-15-09, 01:39 PM

In my experience it varied. There were times when a line would be settled across the board as "no action" (in these cases you could see in the text message section where it would say line xxxxx as settled as "no action" due to past-post betting) and on my betting window, it would show status as "no action" and the amount of the bet in blue, returned to me. This was usually when they were REALLY LATE taking the line down. I think in these cases everybody's bets were canceled.

There were other instances where it would be settled as "win" on my betting window and it would show the amount I won in green BUT my account balance would not reflect this. I would log into my account, look at my best history, and in my individual bet history, it would show "no action." In these cases, I was singled out while others were paid.

Where it becomes a scam is in those instances where I was singled out, did they only cancel my bet if I won? In other words, did other people also place losing bets at that exact same time but bodog kept their money? Like I said, there was never an instance where I had an otherwise losing bet settled as no action due to past post betting.

I saved some screenshots of some of my betting from last year but I'm not inclined to post them not knowing how many bodog employees browse these boards.

EDIT - and I see you said it was a Giants/Redskins game. As I pointed out earlier, Fox has the longest delay in satellite signal and depending on what radio station you were listening to, you may have had a 7-second edge. Hence, why lines might not come down until 5 seconds after the play.

**themajormt** · 09-15-09, 01:42 PM

Bodog does browse Brandon and these are serious allegations because the book is essentially free rolling. This needs to be brought to Justin's attention I think... This is not right at all..

**tltaylor89** · 09-15-09, 01:49 PM

Yeah its their fault for leaving the lines out.

**wontootree** · 09-15-09, 01:54 PM

The radio feed was local because of live in NJ. If listening to the radio is illegal, it should say so in their rules somewhere. As far as I knew I wasn't doing anything wrong only to find out AFTER the game was over that they cancelled 14 bets, all winners of course, and kept the money for all the losing bets. Half of these were on pass plays. As I stated above, I bet on 14 passing plays once the radio said the backfield was empty. According to the rules they sent me weeks ago when they cancelled a bet across the board for everyone because the play had been run on TV and the lines were still up, this is NOT considered past post. They specifically defined it as the snap of the ball. Regardless, all 14 bets were put in at the same point in time. The 7 that won were cancelled, but somehow the 7 bets that lost were just fine with Bodog. I am still a fan of their poker room which will make it hard to leave there, but I no longer have any respect for their sportsbook nor should anyone for that matter. They are rated WAY to high here.

**brandonsvsu** · 09-15-09, 02:04 PM

Since this all happened to me last year and I de-activated my account since them since I no longer want anything to do with bodog, I no longer have access to the bet history (plus I think it is no longer viewable after 60 or 90 days anyways).

I bet on probably between 40 to 50 games live last year throughout the course of the football season. I had somewhere around 10 different bets post as a WIN in the bet window but show as NO ACTION in my account. If I recall correctly, all of these happened late in the year after they had reduced my limit to $25 and $10 - I don't recall ever having this happen before my bet limit was reduced. I am 100 percent certain that there was never an instance where a bet showed as a LOSS in my bet window but NO ACTION in my account (and I lost quite a few bets at the last second as well - admittedly not as many as I won but it was a significant number). Like I said, there were several instances where a bet was settle NO ACTION on the bet window for the reason of "past post betting" but I assume those applied to everybody. Its the fact that these bets were handled in several different ways that tell me my individual bet was singled out and canceled.

**brandonsvsu** · 09-15-09, 02:17 PM

Originally posted by wontootree

The radio feed was local because of live in NJ. If listening to the radio is illegal, it should say so in their rules somewhere.

Its one of those things that many would consider unethical or taking advantage of a flaw in their system.

Problem is, its a MAJOR FLAW and its one they can't really do much about without doing to people what they did to you and me. Like I said, you take the lines down a few seconds earlier and you lose a lot of bets and hence lose a lot of money. Its cheaper to monitor people like us and cut us off than to take down the lines sooner (considering that probably 95% of bettors are watching the game on tv with the delay in place).

And they will NEVER acknowledge the time delay flaw. Like I said, I went back and forth with them in emails and the closest thing I got out of them was along the lines of "our live betting lines are posted by people, not computers, and people can occasionally mistakenly leave up the lines too long, leaving the potential for past-post wagering."

So is bodog really aware of the huge time delay advantage given by the radio? They can't possibly not be aware of this.

**tltaylor89** · 09-15-09, 02:21 PM

Yeah the only way you can make money their is through poker they always post lines super late their and when do post them you go somewhere else because they are full juice.

**Peep** · 09-15-09, 03:04 PM

Interesting thread.

Thanks guys for your contributions, I never knew about this.

**MrX** · 09-15-09, 04:20 PM

So you were getting one over on Bodog's live betting. They found out and got one over on you. What did you expect?

A more reputable book probably would have canceled all or none of your bets from this game and shown you the door, but you knew you were playing with Bodog, not Pinnacle. If Bodog went back and canceled all of the live bets ever made from your account would you be better off?

Be happy you can still play in their poker room.

**Tomato** · 09-15-09, 04:29 PM

Tomato LOVES Bodog live betting

Ricky Rubio +700 to go to Minnesota? POUND POUND POUND!

No "past post" there. That was when we were on pick #2 - a good 20 minutes before Minnesota picked.

Sportsbook.com is even worse. Aaron Maybin +1100 to go to the Bills? BWAHAHAHHA!

Oh and Tomato hopes you get your $$$.

**brandonsvsu** · 09-15-09, 04:42 PM

Originally posted by MrX

So you were getting one over on Bodog's live betting. They found out and got one over on you. What did you expect?

How is that "getting one over" on Bodog's live betting? Its not called "Bodog live plus seven seconds" - its called "Bodog live"

live - In broadcast, term used for a program that is presented as it is happening, in contrast to a prerecorded broadcast. A live broadcast is said to be happening in "real time."

Ironically, its the radio feed that is "live," not the tv feed. So if they're going to reduce the limits and/or cancel the bets of those who are playing what is advertised as "live" betting by using an actual live feed, then they better have a valid explanation for doing so.

**MrX** · 09-15-09, 05:10 PM

Originally posted by brandonsvsu

How is that "getting one over" on Bodog's live betting? Its not called "Bodog live plus seven seconds" - its called "Bodog live"

live - In broadcast, term used for a program that is presented as it is happening, in contrast to a prerecorded broadcast. A live broadcast is said to be happening in "real time."

Ironically, its the radio feed that is "live," not the tv feed. So if they're going to reduce the limits and/or cancel the bets of those who are playing what is advertised as "live" betting by using an actual live feed, then they better have a valid explanation for doing so.

Oh come on!

I shouldn't even have to write this, because you already know it. But, since you're forcing the issue...

Live betting is marketed to people who are watching the game on TV. When you have delays upwards of 10 seconds, the book either has to seriously degrade the quality of offerings to the TV watchers, or defend itself against people using faster feeds.

You want to argue the semantics of "live" betting? Everyone knows that live betting means betting on a game in progress, not an assumption of access to immediate game information.

**bleedblue** · 09-15-09, 05:11 PM

Originally posted by brandonsvsu

How is that "getting one over" on Bodog's live betting? Its not called "Bodog live plus seven seconds" - its called "Bodog live"

Brandon, you admittedly were making bets after the plays started. Their lines are for betting in between plays, so you were "past posting".

**MrX** · 09-15-09, 05:20 PM

By the way, I'm really not trying to defend the books, I'm just a little disgusted at your lack of tenacity.

Here you have a good thing going, Bodog catches on and fights back a little, and you run crying to a forum? Lame. Where's your fight. You're supposed to create new accounts and figure out how to take advantage in ways that are a little less obvious.

**brandonsvsu** · 09-15-09, 05:21 PM

I get your point, but its not like we're talking about some scam where you have somebody sitting at the game in the crowd, conveying information to a bettor sitting somewhere outside placing bets.

We're talking about the RADIO - a device owned by nearly every single person in America - a medium listened to by tens of millions of Americans every day.

I don't really care who its marketed to, fact of the matter is that nearly every person who owns a tv owns a radio as well. The fact that more people watch the game on tv than listen to it on the radio does nothing to validate your point - fact is, anybody who is watching the game on the tv can turn on their radio, tune in the game, and have access to a faster feed. TV's and radios both receive signals over the public airways, I don't know how you can sit there and try to distinguish between the two simply by pointing out that more people watch the game on one medium than the other.

Play-by-play betting is simply not a feasible betting system given today's technology, and IMO, its a system that is destined to fail.

**bleedblue** · 09-15-09, 05:25 PM

Oh, and as for the OP's case, whether we believe him or not, I think Bodog needs evidence other than "winning too much on bets made at last second" to do what they did.

Not that you should have to prove your innocence, but I would be interested in how many times OP bet complete/incomplete and how many times it was a passing play, or how many running plays when he bet rush. If you were past posting, we might be able to tell from that info.

**MrX** · 09-15-09, 05:28 PM

Originally posted by brandonsvsu

I don't really care who its marketed to

It doesn't matter if you care. They care. And they're the ones who get to set your limits and cancel your bets.

And it's completely reasonable for them to market to whomever they choose. Who would you market to? Do you know a lot of people who live bet recreationally while listening to the radio?

Originally posted by brandonsvsu

Play-by-play betting is simply not a feasible betting system given today's technology, and IMO, its a system that is destined to fail.

It's certainly doomed to fail if the books have to smile and take it when people bet faster feeds.

**bleedblue** · 09-15-09, 05:29 PM

Brandon,

You're trying to complicate the argument by bringing up irrelevant details. If you were knowingly making bets after the plays started, you were cheating.

**brandonsvsu** · 09-15-09, 05:41 PM

Look, I'm not saying bodog doesn't have the right to reduce bet limits or to even close accounts if they so choose. What I'm saying is that their system is severely flawed, and they way they're handling people who take advantage of this flaw is not right. You can't selectively cancel winning bets without ticking a lot of people off. What about somebody who is betting a tv feed and gets lucky on a few bets they make late and bodog cancels those bets for "past post wagering"?

They will quickly lose all integrity if they continue to selectively cancel winning bets.

Lets say I decide now to bet the way they intend, via a tv satellite feed. Why should I trust that all my winning bets will be honored?

**MrX** · 09-15-09, 05:53 PM

I've never noticed a similar complaint here from a live bettor using the tv feed. I have a feeling your betting patterns look very different from any recreational bettor getting lucky.

Yes, only canceling the winners was improper. I know that. They know that. They're ticked off because it's hard enough to run live betting even without being attacked by people with live access, and they sent a message.

Look, OP could maybe even raise enough of a stink here to get all his bets canceled and be shown the door. My point is, I think both of you knew you were stepping over a line with this play. I'm all for stepping over lines. I do it all the time. But if you're going to step over lines, don't go complaining to a legitimate watchdog when you're facing repercussions. Especially when the repercussions are as minor as the ones we're seeing here.

**GoodOldTed** · 09-15-09, 06:03 PM

Originally posted by brandonsvsu

I already shared some of my experiences with Bodog Live betting in the "suspicious betting patterns" thread, but I guess I can share some more here:

After discovering that OTA TV is 2-3 seconds ahead of tv, I later discovered the following last year (these are all comparisons to Dish Network satellite feed):

Westwood One audio feed 5 seconds ahead of MNF on ESPN
Westwood One audio feed 5 seconds ahead of Sunday Night Football on NBC
Westwood One audio feed 7 seconds ahead of East Coast games on FOX
Westwood One audio feed 14 seconds ahead of West Coast games on FOX
ESPN Radio audio feed 13 seconds ahead of certain ABC Saturday college football games

Thing is, there aren't many radio stations that broadcast a true live-time feed (any radio station that broadcasts in HD, which is quite a few stations these days, has a 7-second delay as well). But there are still some out there.

Bodog has a real problem here. They could take the lines down quicker but they'd lose more money by doing that then by simply monitoring the betting and reducing the limits of those they suspect getting the game on the radio. I too had my limit reduced to $1 (but not all at once - it went from 100 to 25 to 10 to 1)

The time delay was so ridiculous that I was hearing a complete pass while the lines were still up, you can make a quick $300 on a $100 bet. But be prepared for your limit to be reduced by halftime if you do that.
Or better yet - make $2500 on a turnover.

IMO, Bodog Live is something that won't be around much longer once word gets out that you can make a fortune on time delays.

Any bookie who bets live who isn't aware of such delays are morons. UK firms who cover dozens of live sporting events per day spend a lot of time and effort checking out every feed possible and comparing to sending someone to the ground, for the absolute feed. For example the UK feed for a Man Utd game in Greece in the Champions League might be five seconds behind via satellite, but in Greece, it's on free-to-air TV so it's less than two seconds. If the bookie can get access to a faster satellite, they'll use it. Spanish league via UK satellite can be 30secs delayed, via Spanish satellite 3-4 secs.

You put a time delay on accepting all bets, greater than the delay the bookie has, with a small buffer for staff to be able to react.

They'll either get skun or laughed out of town if they are that amateur....

**GoodOldTed** · 09-15-09, 06:06 PM

Originally posted by brandonsvsu

Look, I'm not saying bodog doesn't have the right to reduce bet limits or to even close accounts if they so choose. What I'm saying is that their system is severely flawed, and they way they're handling people who take advantage of this flaw is not right. You can't selectively cancel winning bets without ticking a lot of people off. What about somebody who is betting a tv feed and gets lucky on a few bets they make late and bodog cancels those bets for "past post wagering"?

I can't vouch for their integrity, but it's very easy to look back at the timing of incoming bets, put a digital timer on their TV and track who is trying to beat them for 'free money'. It will be the same names time and time again, it sticks out like a sore thumb....

Do they have a time delay on accepting a bet in their system? If they don't differentiate between live and normal betting, then they are fools..

**brandonsvsu** · 09-15-09, 06:09 PM

Originally posted by MrX

if you're going to step over lines, don't go complaining to a legitimate watchdog when you're facing repercussions. Especially when the repercussions are as minor as the ones we're seeing here.

I'm not asking that anything be done for me, this was nearly a year ago and I haven't used bodog since, nor do I plan on playing there in the future. I just thought I'd share my experiences when somebody else posted about similar circumstances.

I don't want to come across as sounding like I'm accusing bodog of wrongdoing because obviously I lack the evidence to prove it, BUT, if its fair game for them to take action based on "suspicious betting patterns" then its fair game for me to criticize them and make assumptions about what they're doing based on what I see as "suspicious canceled betting patterns."