WAGERR BLOCKCHAIN SPORTSBOOK. No Limits - Available Anywhere - Guaranteed Payout

**sss_av_ltd** · 09-17-21, 07:51 AM

Originally posted by raiders72001

I don't like to be harsh on what will be the future as this is built on Ethereum but it seems for all intents and purposes that this is centralized disguised as being decentralized. Wagerr owns a majority of the tokens. They control the chain. Wagerr can run anytime they want.

As above you are looking at the wrong thing. you are looking at an onramp onto the Wagerr blockchain. Wagerr is built on it's own blockchain.

Wagerr team doesn't own the majority of tokens, They do not control the chain (it is operated by ~3,000 Nodes). Because they don't control the chain everyone is in control of their funds.

explorer.wagerr.com

**sss_av_ltd** · 09-17-21, 07:54 AM

Originally posted by raiders72001

We can bet as much as we want without a counterparty or liquidity pool?

As an example.

https://explorer.wagerr.com/#/bet/event/92623

This person has bet about 400k WGR (~16k USD) with no line change.

https://explorer.wagerr.com/#/betevents

You can go through plenty of examples by yourself, look for events with larger volume and verify it, you can see the bets/line movements etc.

**EasyTiger** · 09-17-21, 08:07 AM

I agree with Go_Rilla. I was a skeptic at first and had my concerns about the transparency of the platform. However, this week, I spent some time educating myself on the platform and found that it was nothing but transparent. Once I better understood the burn and demand model for the tokens, I gained a much better grasp of how it works. Sure the project could crash and burn, but I honestly don't see that happening as the platform appears to have tremendous future potential. They have a roadmap of planned future developments as well as an upgrade in the works. It's all about one's risk tolerance, and for me, it's well worth the risk, which I found to be much lower than I previously thought.

**bigtymer56** · 09-17-21, 10:36 AM

Originally posted by bigtymer56

Omg this is back from the dead. Am of the dolts OPTI is referring to.

My worst decision in crypto - investing at least a BTC (maybe more, dont want to check) back during the ICO.
My best decision - Finally realizing the loss and selling WGR for ETH before it took off.

To the OP...has the Wagerr team revealed recently how much money they have left to keep development going? Before, I stopped paying attention to the project that info slowly became harder and harder to find.

Following up on this:

This project has been around 3-4 years now. Any update on team finances? Is there enough betting volume for this project to self fund at this point? Last update I could find regarding finances is below. But it looks like all the wallets listed in that application have been emptied out. If I'm wrong or there is any newer info, please let me know.

https://community.binance.org/topic/1834/proposal-to-list-wagerr-wgr-on-binance-dex

**raiders72001** · 09-17-21, 01:00 PM

Originally posted by sss_av_ltd

As above you are looking at the wrong thing. you are looking at an onramp onto the Wagerr blockchain. Wagerr is built on it's own blockchain.

Wagerr team doesn't own the majority of tokens, They do not control the chain (it is operated by ~3,000 Nodes). Because they don't control the chain everyone is in control of their funds.

explorer.wagerr.com

The blockchain is the counterparty which means you just mint more tokens to pay players. If you own 51% of the coins, you control the network. If there's no liquidity at Uniswap or Pancakeswap, then there is no value to the token.

**raiders72001** · 09-17-21, 01:13 PM

What Wagerr has built is awesome. The only problem is that there's no doubt in my mind that this is centralized packaged as decentralized. They can run anytime they want.

**EasyTiger** · 09-17-21, 02:01 PM

Originally posted by raiders72001

What Wagerr has built is awesome. The only problem is that there's no doubt in my mind that this is centralized packaged as decentralized. They can run anytime they want.

There's no guarantee with any of the books as we've witnessed in the past. The cool thing about the Wagerr platform is that you are in control of your funds at all times as your winnings are deposited directly to your WGR wallet. To mitigate the risk, you can always trade your WGR tokens on one the exchanges for a more stable crypto or currency similar to what others are currently doing with the bitcoin only books.

**Go_Rilla** · 09-17-21, 02:12 PM

Originally posted by raiders72001

What Wagerr has built is awesome. The only problem is that there's no doubt in my mind that this is centralized packaged as decentralized. They can run anytime they want.

If they were gonna run I think it would have happened by now, also they don't have any incentive to run as there is a development fund that gets something like half a percent of all winning bets, and betting volume is constantly rising as more and more people learn of the advantages of the platform.

**raiders72001** · 09-17-21, 02:21 PM

Originally posted by EasyTiger

There's no guarantee with any of the books as we've witnessed in the past. The cool thing about the Wagerr platform is that you are in control of your funds at all times as your winnings are deposited directly to your WGR wallet. To mitigate the risk, you can always trade your WGR tokens on one the exchanges for a more stable crypto or currency similar to what others are currently doing with the bitcoin only books.

I definitely like that you're able to hold your money in your own wallet but if the money is pulled from Uniswap, then the coins in your wallet aren't worth anything. Also, the fee is high to trade at Uniswap. There may even be slippage.

**raiders72001** · 09-17-21, 02:22 PM

Originally posted by Go_Rilla

If they were gonna run I think it would have happened by now, also they don't have any incentive to run as there is a development fund that gets something like half a percent of all winning bets.

It's run on blockchain so there is a record of all transactions. That's the beauty of blockchain. The more books the better and I hope they succeed. My worry is that the book is being portrayed as something that it isn't. This is a centralized sportsbook.

**RoyW** · 09-17-21, 04:23 PM

I dont have the knowledge about these kinds of trading platforms, but I am 100% sure that this will be the future of sports trading. Completely decentralized, very low fees.

Perhaps a stupid question, but why Wagerr uses their own coin and not just bitcoin instead? For me, the major issue with this Wagerr is their own coin.
Having an own coin creates alot of suspicion for me. But perhaps there is a valid reason for this, and someone can explain this to me.

Its inevitable though that the future of trading is decentralized.

**sss_av_ltd** · 09-17-21, 04:37 PM

Originally posted by bigtymer56

Following up on this:

This project has been around 3-4 years now. Any update on team finances? Is there enough betting volume for this project to self fund at this point? Last update I could find regarding finances is below. But it looks like all the wallets listed in that application have been emptied out. If I'm wrong or there is any newer info, please let me know.
https://community.binance.org/topic/...on-binance-dex

There hasn't been a more recent official announcement then that. Funding is not an issue currently from the team, in terms of betting volume to self sustain, I believe roughly $100m USD would suffice anything north of $200m USD would really accelerate things.

**sss_av_ltd** · 09-17-21, 04:49 PM

Originally posted by raiders72001

The blockchain is the counterparty which means you just mint more tokens to pay players. If you own 51% of the coins, you control the network. If there's no liquidity at Uniswap or Pancakeswap, then there is no value to the token.

so when you say Wagerr. I'm just being clear the Blockchain pays it out. It's not like the team is sitting there saying " oh we gotta mint some coins to pay this out".

Then in terms of 51%, yes that's generally how POS works but who has 51% of coins? I explained that 85% was sold initially and now something like 90% are in public hands. Wagerr also has Masternodes so they would need to control the majority of the nodes too. (more than majority I believe). Given there are 3,000 already running one entity acquiring that much would be really tough imo. Then there is a question of IF you got there why would you do anything, it has cost you an excessive amount of money to acquire those coins and then you are going to sabotage the system and burn all your money..... doesn't make sense to me.

And yes lack of liquidity can be an issue and that's where Wagerr can definitely improve. However, you can trade through Uni and Pancakeswap. Ionomy/beaxy also have liquidity. People also hedge out into fiat books so they don't use the exchange too.

**sss_av_ltd** · 09-17-21, 04:53 PM

Originally posted by raiders72001

What Wagerr has built is awesome. The only problem is that there's no doubt in my mind that this is centralized packaged as decentralized. They can run anytime they want.

to be clear here as it's important. If the Wagerr team closed shop today the blockchain would continue. It's run by 3,000 nodes and it's open source.

Wagerr Ltd

https://github.com/wagerr

Wagerr Ltd has 56 repositories available. Follow their code on GitHub.

I have no doubt if the Wagerr team just left it would have a negative impact but would the project continue... yes.

In saying that as GO_Rilla said if that was going to happen why would they still be building after 4/5 years. There is a big incentive to get this going I think the time continually building already has shown the commitment. How many years before that concern disappears too?

**sss_av_ltd** · 09-17-21, 04:57 PM

Originally posted by raiders72001

I definitely like that you're able to hold your money in your own wallet but if the money is pulled from Uniswap, then the coins in your wallet aren't worth anything. Also, the fee is high to trade at Uniswap. There may even be slippage.

Uniswap isn't the only exchange, so if liquidity leaves there other places will have liquidity. And yes Uniswap (or Ethereum) can have high transaction costs but not the only place to trade. Many people are already in the Ethereum ecosystem, so make sense to have an onramp for them.

Liquidity improving is a good thing. That is partly solved from more demand for the betting platform.

**sss_av_ltd** · 09-17-21, 05:01 PM

Originally posted by raiders72001

It's run on blockchain so there is a record of all transactions. That's the beauty of blockchain. The more books the better and I hope they succeed. My worry is that the book is being portrayed as something that it isn't. This is a centralized sportsbook.

I'm not entirely clear on your view.

Right now the one part of the ecosystem that is centralised is the ' Oracle' (basically the engine that feeds information like events, odds, results) it is run by the team. In an earlier post I said that would likely change over the next 12-18 months.

If you haven't looked at the explorer to see how it is all run on chain yet please do, I think that should help explain the difference between an actual centralized book and Wagerr.

**sss_av_ltd** · 09-17-21, 05:17 PM

Originally posted by RoyW

I dont have the knowledge about these kinds of trading platforms, but I am 100% sure that this will be the future of sports trading. Completely decentralized, very low fees.

Perhaps a stupid question, but why Wagerr uses their own coin and not just bitcoin instead? For me, the major issue with this Wagerr is their own coin.
Having an own coin creates alot of suspicion for me. But perhaps there is a valid reason for this, and someone can explain this to me.

Its inevitable though that the future of trading is decentralized.

Good question and not stupid.

WGR is pretty key to the whole model working. Let's say that WGR allowed betting in BTC. Immediately there is a question of who holds onto that Bitcoin? With centralized books you hand your Bitcoin over to a third party and now you have to put trust in that entity. Wagerr is trying to avoid that. Smart contracts on Bitcoin don't work atm.

Further, by introducing WGR and allowing users to bet against the blockchain you enable true no limit betting. If we were to allow BTC betting we couldn't actually offer no limit betting. We would have to put a limit because you can't just print BTC to pay out the bet, you need the capital to back it. On Wagerr the blockchain can issue more WGR to cover the liability and therefore can accept much larger bets. (that comes with risk but hopefully I've explained that enough in previous posts).

So on Wagerr because we have our own currency we can do this. Offer no limit betting, incentivize people (via WGR) to run the infrastructure to operate the decentralized betting platform. Allow people to hold their funds at all times.

By building the model around WGR we effectively make the users the house. Let's say hypothetically that a heap of gamblers join Wagerr tomorrow and bet large amounts of WGR and lose. Every time they lose, the WGR they bet with is being destroyed and removed from the supply. This is benefitting all the other users who hold WGR.

Finally, Because there is no shareholder in this model (i.e. the users are the house) Wagerr can overtime be incredibly sharp with it's odds. just having a small margin to pay for the development fund and people operating the nodes to keep the project sustainable and in continual development.

hopefully makes sense for you.

**bigtymer56** · 09-17-21, 05:17 PM

Originally posted by sss_av_ltd

There hasn't been a more recent official announcement then that. Funding is not an issue currently from the team, in terms of betting volume to self sustain, I believe roughly $100m USD would suffice anything north of $200m USD would really accelerate things.

Well, hope that is actually true. Imagine good blockchain devs aren't cheap.

**raiders72001** · 09-17-21, 05:33 PM

Originally posted by sss_av_ltd

so when you say Wagerr. I'm just being clear the Blockchain pays it out. It's not like the team is sitting there saying " oh we gotta mint some coins to pay this out".

Then in terms of 51%, yes that's generally how POS works but who has 51% of coins? I explained that 85% was sold initially and now something like 90% are in public hands. Wagerr also has Masternodes so they would need to control the majority of the nodes too. (more than majority I believe). Given there are 3,000 already running one entity acquiring that much would be really tough imo. Then there is a question of IF you got there why would you do anything, it has cost you an excessive amount of money to acquire those coins and then you are going to sabotage the system and burn all your money..... doesn't make sense to me.

And yes lack of liquidity can be an issue and that's where Wagerr can definitely improve. However, you can trade through Uni and Pancakeswap. Ionomy/beaxy also have liquidity. People also hedge out into fiat books so they don't use the exchange too.

There's no liquidity. You can mint as many tokens as you would like to get 51%. You wouldn't have to have a majority of the nodes. You need a majority of the hash rate.

**raiders72001** · 09-17-21, 05:48 PM

Wrapped WGR

**sss_av_ltd** · 09-17-21, 05:50 PM

When you say you can mint as many tokens as you like to get 51% you are wrong. How does this work? As I said when someone makes a bet they bet AGAINST the blockchain and the Blockchain mints the WGR to pay out the bet. This is a smart contract there is no interaction with the team to mint the coins.

yep as I said liquidity is something that needs improvement. However I know you can move coins far greater than displayed in the picture. i.e. on Ionomy not listed there, you can put up orders of 100k plus and they will get bought/sold relatively quickly. I believe liquidity will get solved in time.

**raiders72001** · 09-17-21, 05:56 PM

Originally posted by sss_av_ltd

When you say you can mint as many tokens as you like to get 51% you are wrong. How does this work? As I said when someone makes a bet they bet AGAINST the blockchain and the Blockchain mints the WGR to pay out the bet. This is a smart contract there is no interaction with the team to mint the coins.

yep as I said liquidity is something that needs improvement. However I know you can move coins far greater than displayed in the picture. i.e. on Ionomy not listed there, you can put up orders of 100k plus and they will get bought/sold relatively quickly. I believe liquidity will get solved in time.

If Wagerr has 5 players. They all buy $1m USD of WGR. All 5 win so they receive $5m in WGR tokens. Wagerr pays them in WGR. Now the players want their money so they go over to Uniswap. If there's no liquidity at Uniswap, then the players hold tokens that have no value. They are out $1m each.

**raiders72001** · 09-17-21, 06:00 PM

sss- why do you keep saying against the blockchain? I don't understand the importance of that. This means the player receives minted tokens and not $. It would be better if it were player vs. player where money is held in escrow.

**raiders72001** · 09-17-21, 06:24 PM

Any idea of their odds provider?

**RoyW** · 09-17-21, 08:12 PM

Hypothesis :
Someone manages to find a match that that can be bought, which is available on the Wagerr platform. He decides to place $20m at odds 2.5 and wins.

New coins have to be mint, decreasing the value tremendously.

How this will be prevented?

**RoyW** · 09-17-21, 08:15 PM

Originally posted by raiders72001

sss- why do you keep saying against the blockchain? I don't understand the importance of that. This means the player receives minted tokens and not $. It would be better if it were player vs. player where money is held in escrow.

Exactly, betfair without the fees, no shitcoin but bitcoin.

**sss_av_ltd** · 09-17-21, 11:00 PM

Originally posted by raiders72001

If Wagerr has 5 players. They all buy $1m USD of WGR. All 5 win so they receive $5m in WGR tokens. Wagerr pays them in WGR. Now the players want their money so they go over to Uniswap. If there's no liquidity at Uniswap, then the players hold tokens that have no value. They are out $1m each.

Just keep in mind in this scenario that someone buying $1m coins would have the same liquidity issue on the way in as the way out. You don't just acquire them out of thin air you need to enter the market on the way in.

What I suggested earlier that as the betting volume and the liquidity improve, bettors will be able to lean harder into Wagerr without those concerns. Understandably at the start you have to start a bit smaller or as you have pointed out you have an issue moving in and out. The point remains though that Wagerr is built for no limits.

**sss_av_ltd** · 09-17-21, 11:05 PM

Originally posted by raiders72001

sss- why do you keep saying against the blockchain? I don't understand the importance of that. This means the player receives minted tokens and not $. It would be better if it were player vs. player where money is held in escrow.

Well the blockchain as the counterparty can issue WGR. That's why it can guarantee payouts and accept very large bets.

Player vs player doesn't exactly solve the ability for someone to bet in large amounts. Augur, degens.com are examples of that... they have terrible liquidity and therefore odds. Wagerr offers a different model and I think it is superior.

**raiders72001** · 09-17-21, 11:07 PM

Originally posted by sss_av_ltd

Just keep in mind in this scenario that someone buying $1m coins would have the same liquidity issue on the way in as the way out. You don't just acquire them out of thin air you need to enter the market on the way in.

What I suggested earlier that as the betting volume and the liquidity improve, bettors will be able to lean harder into Wagerr without those concerns. Understandably at the start you have to start a bit smaller or as you have pointed out you have an issue moving in and out. The point remains though that Wagerr is built for no limits.

Betting with no limits and nothing backing it is the flaw.

**sss_av_ltd** · 09-17-21, 11:11 PM

Originally posted by RoyW

Exactly, betfair without the fees, no shitcoin but bitcoin.

You can use fairlay for that no? Wagerr is trying to do something else that has its own unique features.

**sss_av_ltd** · 09-17-21, 11:24 PM

Originally posted by RoyW

Hypothesis :
Someone manages to find a match that that can be bought, which is available on the Wagerr platform. He decides to place $20m at odds 2.5 and wins.

New coins have to be mint, decreasing the value tremendously.

How this will be prevented?

How is that prevented on say pinnacle today?

The user has to bet in increments he can't unload $20m in one bet. As the volume comes in the odds will change. And tbh this isn't a problem at the moment, the volume is too small and the markets available on Wagerr are too liquid. A future problem maybe, but it is no different to what can and does happen today.

**sss_av_ltd** · 09-17-21, 11:28 PM

Originally posted by raiders72001

Betting with no limits and nothing backing it is the flaw.

Look it's working today and every year it is doing more and more volume. The link below explains how the model works and why it can work long term.

https://docs.wagerr.com/learning-wagerr/wagerr-tokenomics/design-principles

I'm just trying to explain how it works. This isn't a discussion of will it work or not. It is working. Can it be improved, absolutely, and that's happening. I know the weaknesses of the model probably better than anyone and I will gladly defend the benefits because there is many.

**sss_av_ltd** · 09-17-21, 11:29 PM

Originally posted by raiders72001

Wrapped WGR

this is the gateway the centralized on ramp onto the decentralized Wagerr Blockchain just so you know.

**raiders72001** · 09-17-21, 11:32 PM

Originally posted by sss_av_ltd

............... Ionomy not listed there, you can put up orders of 100k plus and they will get bought/sold relatively quickly. I believe liquidity will get solved in time.

I looked at the order book, that's not true. Ionomy is small exchange in Seychelles and does very little volume.

**sss_av_ltd** · 09-17-21, 11:40 PM

Originally posted by raiders72001

I looked at the order book, that's not true. Ionomy is small exchange in Seychelles and does very little volume.

I watch it. Go and talk to the community. on numerous occasions someone announces they are putting up a large buy or sell order and then it is bought/sold relatively quickly.

Again, I realize liquidity isn't the best. And if I didn't point this out before people that have access to other books will hedge out by betting on both side of a market across two books. Bypassing the exchange altogether.