Bookmaker does not understand head to head betting

[teddybreak]

I made a matchup bet on the archery on the Olympics. I bet on Netherlands to beat France.

https://olympics.com/tokyo-2020/olympic-games/en/results/archery/medals-and-ranking-men-s-team.htm

As Netherlands finished 4th and France finished 9th I expected it to be settled as a winner of course, but they have cancelled it. So I went to the live chat, and Albert went to check it and came back to me saying:
''Thank you for holding as per house rules the bet has been graded correctly, neither of them won meaning that this bet would be cancel and refunded''

I thought he meant to say they both ended up equal, but he actually that since neither side won the overall competition the bet was cancelled rightly:
''I understand your position.And neither of them won, they were 4ft and 9th, no winner, so the bet was cancel and refunded accordingly.''

I explained him the purpose of head to head/matchup betting and the difference with outright betting but he kept saying it is settled correctly. He also said I could 'contact the morning team if you feel like'

[Optional]

I'd suggest sending an email and asking for a manager to review the grading.

If that does not work, send in an SBR complaint form.

[HedgeHog]

With this way of thinking, Bookmaker must be canceling nearly all their golf tourney matchups. If neither golfer wins it all, then the head to head is void? Makes no sense. Some newbie in the grading dept must have screwed up the grading of his bet. Now he has to jump through hoops to get it corrected.

[DontTailMe]

It's also frustrating because it makes no logical sense, even to someone who is brand new to betting. Why would you bother listing H2H matchups if what you're really asking for is the winner? You would hope that even a bone headed front line customer service rep would sniff that out instead of assuming the grade is correct, as they always do.

Good luck OP.

[semibluff]

https://olympics.com/tokyo-2020/olympic-games/en/results/archery/event-schedule-men-s-team.htm

I don't know anything about archery but since the teams didn't compete against each other I would expect a H2H match to be void. Off the top of my head I can't think of an example where a H2H match would be settled by overall tournament result. For example in the Euro 2020 soccer Germany beat Portugal in their H2H game but Portugal finished higher overall. Again, I don't know how this sport and bet should be settled but H2H by overall tournament result doesn't sound right.

If anything I would have guessed the bet posted was a typo with Netherlands vs France posted instead of Netherlands vs Great Britain, (or something like that).

Anyway, good luck.

[milwaukee mike]

https://olympics.com/tokyo-2020/olym...men-s-team.htm

I don't know anything about archery but since the teams didn't compete against each other I would expect a H2H match to be void. Off the top of my head I can't think of an example where a H2H match would be settled by overall tournament result. For example in the Euro 2020 soccer Germany beat Portugal in their H2H game but Portugal finished higher overall. Again, I don't know how this sport and bet should be settled but H2H by overall tournament result doesn't sound right.

If anything I would have guessed the bet posted was a typo with Netherlands vs France posted instead of Netherlands vs Great Britain, (or something like that).

Anyway, good luck.

that is also what i was thinking

but there are matchups on who finishes higher... here is the wording at bol

"best finishing position. both must compete for action"

bookmaker has been weird on this stuff in the past, grading losses when guys didn't compete, their old athletics/cycling rules used to say action even if someone didn't race jeez

[semibluff]

that is also what i was thinking

but there are matchups on who finishes higher... here is the wording at bol

"best finishing position. both must compete for action"

bookmaker has been weird on this stuff in the past, grading losses when guys didn't compete, their old athletics/cycling rules used to say action even if someone didn't race jeez

You could well be right. Again, I have no experience of Archery or Olympic betting to fall back on. I don't know what each book has for its rules, and some books don't appear to settle by their own posted rules, (thinking of a certain Serie-A wager). I'll assume 1.68 quoted by the OP is decimal and refers to 68/100 or -147 rather than +168 but even so since the Netherlands were seeded through to the last 8 and France had to qualify through a wild-card round I would normally expect the seeded team to be a shorter price. At least the latest version of Bookmaker's rules say head-to-head now requires both to actually start.

https://get.bookmaker.help/hc/en-us/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&query=head

Unfortunately I don't see anything pertinent here:

https://get.bookmaker.help/hc/en-us/articles/360020162397-Olympics-general-rules

I hate wagers without clearly defined rules. I'd rather have 3 pages of rules than no rules.

[teddybreak]

I'd suggest sending an email and asking for a manager to review the grading.

If that does not work, send in an SBR complaint form.

I've sent them an email.

[teddybreak]

https://olympics.com/tokyo-2020/olym...men-s-team.htm

I don't know anything about archery but since the teams didn't compete against each other I would expect a H2H match to be void. Off the top of my head I can't think of an example where a H2H match would be settled by overall tournament result. For example in the Euro 2020 soccer Germany beat Portugal in their H2H game but Portugal finished higher overall. Again, I don't know how this sport and bet should be settled but H2H by overall tournament result doesn't sound right.

If anything I would have guessed the bet posted was a typo with Netherlands vs France posted instead of Netherlands vs Great Britain, (or something like that).

Anyway, good luck.

The archers play a ranking round where the seeding is based on, I made my bet before that was played and the seedings were known.

[teddybreak]

that is also what i was thinking

but there are matchups on who finishes higher... here is the wording at bol

"best finishing position. both must compete for action"

bookmaker has been weird on this stuff in the past, grading losses when guys didn't compete, their old athletics/cycling rules used to say action even if someone didn't race jeez

The've got h2h's for the men's individual archery as well now.

https://be.bookmaker.eu/en/sports/tokyo-olympics/shooting/olympics-shooting-h2h/

So by their (or Albert's from the live chat at least) reckoning all but one of these h2h's will be void, because only one of them will win the actual tournament

[milwaukee mike]

The've got h2h's for the men's individual archery as well now.

https://be.bookmaker.eu/en/sports/tokyo-olympics/shooting/olympics-shooting-h2h/

So by their (or Albert's from the live chat at least) reckoning all but one of these h2h's will be void, because only one of them will win the actual tournament

yeah silly

hopefully it gets worked out

[smoke a bowl]

Guessing they will take care of this one way or the other. That seems crazy unless I'm missing something.

[caramba]

Agent's explanation is of course laughable.
Typo seems a likely explanation, them putting Netherlands vs France instead of Netherlands vs GB, based on their other archery offerings, which are all matches that are happening rather than which team/athlete finishes better in the tournament, but evenso I believe they should honor the bet posted (unless the odds were way off), as it's common for a book to post tournament h2h for teams/athletes that are not playing each other.

[teddybreak]

Agent's explanation is of course laughable.
Typo seems a likely explanation, them putting Netherlands vs France instead of Netherlands vs GB, based on their other archery offerings, which are all matches that are happening rather than which team/athlete finishes better in the tournament, but evenso I believe they should honor the bet posted (unless the odds were way off), as it's common for a book to post tournament h2h for teams/athletes that are not playing each other.

As I said, these were offered before the bracket was known. They had to play a ranking round on which the seedings in the brackets were based.

[teddybreak]

Anyway, I hadn't (and still have not) got a reply (further than they a receipt confirmation) on my mail. But I just saw they have added the winnings via an adjustment. So, the problem is solved!

[caramba]

Ah, I missed that part. Then it's a clear cut case. Good to hear they paid out.

[redsox2004]

Anyway, I hadn't (and still have not) got a reply (further than they a receipt confirmation) on my mail. But I just saw they have added the winnings via an adjustment. So, the problem is solved!

Good to hear. All matchup head to heads in horse racing, NBA/ NFL draft, golf tournaments etc are graded based on better performance of the two outcomes. Crazy to me that this even happened.

[DontTailMe]

Glad to hear that they made good on it. Disappointing that it was via a manual adjustment, which probably means that they fundamentally disagree with you and other bettors may have been screwed out of a win.

[Optional]

Anyway, I hadn't (and still have not) got a reply (further than they a receipt confirmation) on my mail. But I just saw they have added the winnings via an adjustment. So, the problem is solved!

Good to hear you got it sorted out with them.

Thanks for letting the thread know the result

[Mugsy777]

good news