BetOnline golf wager grading issue

finkjason · 10-21-20, 04:54 PM

Just going to bump this one time, as my original post from yesterday didn't come through until earlier today and has gotten a bit buried on the board. Any feedback on my grading issue with BOL would be appreciated.

caramba · 10-21-20, 04:59 PM

You should be paid the full amount.

DontTailMe · 10-21-20, 05:24 PM

Originally posted by finkjason

Hey everyone, I’ve lurked on the board for quite a while and never intended to post…I’m so sorry the first time y'all are hearing from me is with a complaint, but I’ve been going back and forth with BetOnline about a grading issue for three days and was told by a ‘supervisor’ that there was no further recourse. I did file a complaint with SBR about this, but in the meantime, I just wanted to do a gut check with folks on here to make sure I’m not crazy. Feel free to call me out if I’m wrong!

I placed a bet on Mark Hubbard to finish in the Top 20 at the CJ Cup golf tournament last weekend. He finished T-17 along with 3 other players (leaderboard here). In other words, all 4 tied players, including the one I wagered on, finished squarely in the Top 20, and there were exactly 20 Top 20 finishers. As you’ll see on the leaderboard, the next group of players is T-21.

The bet was graded with dead heat rules applied—3/4 of the original bet was graded as a win and 1/4 of the original bet was graded as a loss. I’ve been betting golf for a while, and I thought I had a pretty clear understanding of when these rules should be applied—for example, if Hubbard had finished in a 4-way tie for 18^th place, so that there were only 3 Top 20 spots available to pay out (18-19-20), but 4 players tied, then I would get 3/4 of a win and 1/4 of a loss.

However, in this case, it seems pretty cut and dry that all 4 of the golfers who finished T-17 finished in the Top 20. As I mentioned up front, this has been escalated up the chain at BOL and all I keep getting is “dead heat rule applies because there’s a tie”. Nobody has been able or willing to explain to me why it applies in this case, or how 1/4 of my bet lost by finishing outside the Top 20, when, in fact, all tied players finished in the Top 20.

Please keep me honest…am I right about this or am I missing something? Happy to provide any additional detail. Thanks.

Yeah, this is clearly wrong. Exactly 20 people made the Top 20. No need for dead heat.

Optional · 10-21-20, 05:31 PM

Shoot in a Sportsbook Complaint form and we can get a manager to re-check this grading for you.

Maybe link this thread as well for the dispute agent.

finkjason · 10-21-20, 05:52 PM

Thanks for the quick replies. I agree, it seems pretty straightforward! I didn't want to bore everyone with all the back and forth I've already had with BOL (my OP was long enough!), but I'm an hourlong customer support chat, four phone calls, multiple escalations/'re-reviews,' and one super-condescending 'supervisor' conversation deep in trying to get this changed.

On the call with the supervisor, I was told dead heats would apply ANY time there is a tie in the standings, even for other Top 20 wagers on players that finished in any sort of tie ABOVE my player on the leaderboard (?!). I also gave him the hypothetical -- what would've happened if the three other players my golfer was tied with all finished one shot better, moving them up the leaderboard, and leaving my player in a 'worse' position--solo 20th instead of four-way T-17. He told me that wager would've paid out in full, but mine doesn't because of the group of tied players, again ignoring that ALL TIED PLAYERS FINISHED IN THE TOP 20 AND THERE'S NO DEAD HEAT. He told me "that's how dead heats work--it's not how you want them to work--but that's how they work."

Opti - I filled out the form yesterday, but I'll also shoot over the link to this thread. Fingers crossed the dispute agent has better luck than me! Appreciate the help!

milwaukee mike · 10-21-20, 06:26 PM

this should be a full win, everyone here is right

the only thing i can think of on the grading is that for some reason maybe they had jason day in there too, he was -10 and then withdrew at -7

still pretty sad that a supervisor wouldn't see this as a full payout top 20

rangerz2478 · 10-21-20, 08:15 PM

Lol, anytime there is an angle for them, they take it.

You'll get it fixed though, since you found SBR.

Barrakuda · 10-21-20, 09:55 PM

This is frightening. If a top supervisor has no idea how the dead heat rule works, how much money have they taken from people in the past?

Locktober · 10-21-20, 11:56 PM

I had a similar ( not exact? / dont recall ) situation in golf with a bol dead heat rule and called them on it.Unfortunately it didnt turn out well.
Wish they were more specific in the golf rules section by citing examples

rangerz2478 · 10-22-20, 01:51 AM

Originally posted by Barrakuda

This is frightening. If a top supervisor has no idea how the dead heat rule works, how much money have they taken from people in the past?

Ones who don't know of sbr: an astronomical amount.

caramba · 10-22-20, 06:14 AM

Originally posted by milwaukee mike

this should be a full win, everyone here is right

the only thing i can think of on the grading is that for some reason maybe they had jason day in there too, he was -10 and then withdrew at -7

still pretty sad that a supervisor wouldn't see this as a full payout top 20

Good shout on the Jason Day situation potentially causing this. But it shouldn't.
Everytime I've had a dispute with BOL, they've always done right in the end, but it's often such a struggle to get there.

HedgeHog · 10-22-20, 06:35 AM

Originally posted by finkjason

Hey everyone, I’ve lurked on the board for quite a while and never intended to post…I’m so sorry the first time y'all are hearing from me is with a complaint, but I’ve been going back and forth with BetOnline about a grading issue for three days and was told by a ‘supervisor’ that there was no further recourse. I did file a complaint with SBR about this, but in the meantime, I just wanted to do a gut check with folks on here to make sure I’m not crazy. Feel free to call me out if I’m wrong!

I placed a bet on Mark Hubbard to finish in the Top 20 at the CJ Cup golf tournament last weekend. He finished T-17 along with 3 other players (leaderboard here). In other words, all 4 tied players, including the one I wagered on, finished squarely in the Top 20, and there were exactly 20 Top 20 finishers. As you’ll see on the leaderboard, the next group of players is T-21.

The bet was graded with dead heat rules applied—3/4 of the original bet was graded as a win and 1/4 of the original bet was graded as a loss. I’ve been betting golf for a while, and I thought I had a pretty clear understanding of when these rules should be applied—for example, if Hubbard had finished in a 4-way tie for 18^th place, so that there were only 3 Top 20 spots available to pay out (18-19-20), but 4 players tied, then I would get 3/4 of a win and 1/4 of a loss.

However, in this case, it seems pretty cut and dry that all 4 of the golfers who finished T-17 finished in the Top 20. As I mentioned up front, this has been escalated up the chain at BOL and all I keep getting is “dead heat rule applies because there’s a tie”. Nobody has been able or willing to explain to me why it applies in this case, or how 1/4 of my bet lost by finishing outside the Top 20, when, in fact, all tied players finished in the Top 20.

Please keep me honest…am I right about this or am I missing something? Happy to provide any additional detail. Thanks.

Welcome to the SBR forum. You are 100% correct and should expect a full payout on your winning bet. I'm confident that SBR will get this corrected for you, but they'll need to find the one person in the wagering department that has a clue. That might take some time.

DontTailMe · 10-22-20, 04:47 PM

Originally posted by rangerz2478

Lol, anytime there is an angle for them, they take it.

You'll get it fixed though, since you found SBR.

I doubt it's an angle. More likely he's just dealing with people who don't understand how this works and are backing up whatever original decision the wagering team made. Which is worse? I'd say the angle shooter, but both can be incredibly frustrating.

Judge Crater · 10-22-20, 06:36 PM

Seems pretty clear

rangerz2478 · 10-22-20, 07:11 PM

Originally posted by DontTailMe

I doubt it's an angle. More likely he's just dealing with people who don't understand how this works and are backing up whatever original decision the wagering team made. Which is worse? I'd say the angle shooter, but both can be incredibly frustrating.

Based on personal experience and the fact this type of misgrade seems to happen at BetOnline about 10x more than any other books combined, I'd lean intentional. Constant threads on here about the most obvious misgrades where the OP reaches out to 4-5 customer service reps (including managers) and they are absolutely no help. It's not until someone goes public that they eventually do fix it.

POSSIBLE it wasn't intentional in this specific case, but all too common for them. CS reps can't be trusted when it comes to any book, not just BOL. But with that being said, you really need to believe in another level of incompetence to think these are all one big coincidence.

finkjason · 10-22-20, 11:54 PM

UPDATE - Although I haven't heard directly from anyone at SBR or BOL, I'm happy to report that when I logged into my account tonight, the wager had been re-graded as a full win and my account balance was adjusted accordingly. THANK YOU to the folks behind the scenes at SBR that made this happen and to all of you for backing me up on this.

I totally agree with the sentiment above -- at least in my own play, seemingly straightforward misgrades have been on the rise, enough that I don't think it's an accident (and in fairness, the others I've experienced in the last few months were not at BOL). This was the first time I've ever had to fight one all the way up the 'chain of command.' It's scary to think how many other players hit a dead end without the help of this site.

Again, appreciate all the support!

Barrakuda · 10-23-20, 02:45 AM

Glad to hear it.

Right about now would be a good time for BOL to make a statement via SBR something like this:

We would like to apologize for the incident in which a valued client was told erroneously he had lost part of his wager by five different employees, including one claiming to be senior management. After a thorough investigation, it turns out that mgmt. was being held hostage in a closet for the week, while various janitors posed as employees. We now have a new cleaning service [one that understands dead heat rules] and, in an abundance of caution, have upgraded all of our system passwords from BOLRules123 to BOLRocks123.

As always, we appreciate your continued business.

Cheers,

BetOnline

Optional · 10-23-20, 04:14 AM

Originally posted by finkjason

UPDATE - Although I haven't heard directly from anyone at SBR or BOL, I'm happy to report that when I logged into my account tonight, the wager had been re-graded as a full win and my account balance was adjusted accordingly. THANK YOU to the folks behind the scenes at SBR that made this happen and to all of you for backing me up on this.

I totally agree with the sentiment above -- at least in my own play, seemingly straightforward misgrades have been on the rise, enough that I don't think it's an accident (and in fairness, the others I've experienced in the last few months were not at BOL). This was the first time I've ever had to fight one all the way up the 'chain of command.' It's scary to think how many other players hit a dead end without the help of this site.

Again, appreciate all the support!

Good to hear that got it right for you in the end

DontTailMe · 10-23-20, 07:20 PM

Originally posted by rangerz2478

Based on personal experience and the fact this type of misgrade seems to happen at BetOnline about 10x more than any other books combined, I'd lean intentional. Constant threads on here about the most obvious misgrades where the OP reaches out to 4-5 customer service reps (including managers) and they are absolutely no help. It's not until someone goes public that they eventually do fix it.

POSSIBLE it wasn't intentional in this specific case, but all too common for them. CS reps can't be trusted when it comes to any book, not just BOL. But with that being said, you really need to believe in another level of incompetence to think these are all one big coincidence.

That's just bad customer service. It's not intentional. Because if you get to the right person (e.g. Twitter rather than contacting CS), they always fix it immediately.

HedgeHog · 10-25-20, 04:08 PM

Originally posted by DontTailMe

That's just bad customer service. It's not intentional. Because if you get to the right person (e.g. Twitter rather than contacting CS), they always fix it immediately.

No, it's not just bad CS, it's worse. The OP reached a BOL supervisor that couldn't resolve this simple issue ( post #6).Please stop making excuses for BOL's ineptness. So now we're supposed to go to twitter to resolve what live chat and phone contact can't?

DontTailMe · 10-25-20, 06:30 PM

I'm not saying you HAVE TO go to Twitter. My point was that if you get the right person on the phone, social media, or whatever they will fix problems immediately. This shows that it's not intentional. It's just difficult to get someone to listen to you sometimes once a decision has been made.

I'm also not saying it's not a problem either. It sucks that you can't just contact CS and get them to listen when a mistake has been made.

reallyhardtowin · 10-26-20, 08:23 PM

for quicker result Tweet to Dave Mason and I'm sure he can help you.

Originally posted by finkjason

Hey everyone, I’ve lurked on the board for quite a while and never intended to post…I’m so sorry the first time y'all are hearing from me is with a complaint, but I’ve been going back and forth with BetOnline about a grading issue for three days and was told by a ‘supervisor’ that there was no further recourse. I did file a complaint with SBR about this, but in the meantime, I just wanted to do a gut check with folks on here to make sure I’m not crazy. Feel free to call me out if I’m wrong!

I placed a bet on Mark Hubbard to finish in the Top 20 at the CJ Cup golf tournament last weekend. He finished T-17 along with 3 other players (leaderboard here). In other words, all 4 tied players, including the one I wagered on, finished squarely in the Top 20, and there were exactly 20 Top 20 finishers. As you’ll see on the leaderboard, the next group of players is T-21.

The bet was graded with dead heat rules applied—3/4 of the original bet was graded as a win and 1/4 of the original bet was graded as a loss. I’ve been betting golf for a while, and I thought I had a pretty clear understanding of when these rules should be applied—for example, if Hubbard had finished in a 4-way tie for 18^th place, so that there were only 3 Top 20 spots available to pay out (18-19-20), but 4 players tied, then I would get 3/4 of a win and 1/4 of a loss.

However, in this case, it seems pretty cut and dry that all 4 of the golfers who finished T-17 finished in the Top 20. As I mentioned up front, this has been escalated up the chain at BOL and all I keep getting is “dead heat rule applies because there’s a tie”. Nobody has been able or willing to explain to me why it applies in this case, or how 1/4 of my bet lost by finishing outside the Top 20, when, in fact, all tied players finished in the Top 20.

Please keep me honest…am I right about this or am I missing something? Happy to provide any additional detail. Thanks.

HedgeHog · 10-26-20, 08:34 PM

Note to self: Don't bet golf at BOL and sister books.

Optional · 10-26-20, 09:29 PM

Originally posted by reallyhardtowin

for quicker result Tweet to Dave Mason and I'm sure he can help you.

They already fixed the grading.

See post #17 above.

ace7550 · 10-26-20, 10:00 PM

Glad you got your money Jason. I bet a lot of golf at BOL and have never had an issue. I think this is an isolated incident and OP got unlucky with bad CS.