Pinnacle shorted me over $300 on a BTC payout, then act dumb in response

[deeppckts]

Imagine the temptation for a shop the size of Pinnacle. Perhaps they process 2 million or more in BTC transactions per day?

If they skim just 1% off that it equals $20,000 per day.

BAUS

And probably most bettors are dumb enough to think that it's because of "bitcoin price volatility".

[BAUS]

I got a payout from Bookmaker today. Got shorted $11. I could care less.

The same amount from Pinnacle would have cost me ~$750. How come BM can do what Pinnacle can’t Alf?

BAUS

[Optional]

While I’m glad that I “won” this bet Optional, I’d prefer that Pinnacle didn’t screw people over on BTC deposits and payouts.

BAUS

I agree Baus. But cool your jets for a moment and don't make me regret making that bet with you so fast.

I'll try to get something official about the OPs payment and go from there.

I can see theres an issue but you are still using the data provided by your wallet site there. Run the transaction ID through blockchain.com search and see if there is a difference between your site and their estimated price when it was sent for me please? That's what I always use as I have found it be a fair medium. Some wallets/exchanges use their own spot price, which can be way off market average.

[BAUS]

Fair enough. Here’s the transaction:

https://www.blockchain.com/btc/address/33NSTcavP4UB6btMLdBFfP3SVvCUzDqG41

Can we have our resident BTC expert lookup what the price was upon receipt?

BAUS

[deeppckts]

Optional, I looked at the one Grady posted. The implied price Pinnacle used wasn't even close to Coinbase at the time. There's no chance other exchanges were off by that much. If you're looking into it for them, why don't you ask *Pinnacle* what magical exchange they're using?

[DontTailMe]

Fair enough. Here’s the transaction:

https://www.blockchain.com/btc/address/33NSTcavP4UB6btMLdBFfP3SVvCUzDqG41

Can we have our resident BTC expert lookup what the price was upon receipt?

BAUS

I'm not the expert you spoke of, but the value of bitcoin in that transaction was $14,372.84 (per Blockchain.com). Compared to your withdrawal amount of $15,360.

[BAUS]

I'm not the expert you spoke of, but the value of bitcoin in that transaction was $14,372.84 (per Blockchain.com). Compared to your withdrawal amount of $15,360.

I was referring to Alfie.

Yes, and my wallet shows it as $14409.80. Of course there are minor discrepancies between different exchanges and wallets. But not 9%.

BAUS

[ronald]

I'm pretty sure Pinnacle uses a different processor for Bitcoin depending on which country the player is located in, which is why I asked Grady where he's at.

They use Cryptopay for Canadian accounts, but they used to use another processor a few years ago (can't remember the name). The other processor yielded a fair BTC conversion, but the daily limits were $1000 per payout if I recall correctly. Now the limits are 50k under Cryptopay. Perhaps Cryptopay charges the extra percentage as compensation for the risk involved in holding so much BTC at once? Just speculating. I don't believe Pinnacle is pocketing the difference; I believe that the processor is doing so. Having said that, I think Pinnacle should be more transparent about the average percentage per transaction one can expect to lose in the conversion. Or they should find a different processor that can handle large/numerous payouts. Bookmaker and Betonline have managed to do so.

Opti - which processor is listed in your Pinnacle account withdrawal section for BTC? I bet it's not Cryptopay.

[DontTailMe]

I'm pretty sure Pinnacle uses a different processor for Bitcoin depending on which country the player is located in, which is why I asked Grady where he's at.

They use Cryptopay for Canadian accounts, but they used to use another processor a few years ago (can't remember the name). The other processor yielded a fair BTC conversion, but the daily limits were $1000 per payout if I recall correctly. Now the limits are 50k under Cryptopay. Perhaps Cryptopay charges the extra percentage as compensation for the risk involved in holding so much BTC at once? Just speculating. I don't believe Pinnacle is pocketing the difference; I believe that the processor is doing so. Having said that, I think Pinnacle should be more transparent about the average percentage per transaction one can expect to lose in the conversion. Or they should find a different processor that can handle large/numerous payouts. Bookmaker and Betonline have managed to do so.

Opti - which processor is listed in your Pinnacle account withdrawal section for BTC? I bet it's not Cryptopay.

Yeah, I've seen other books have a similar problem, where they assure the customer that they aren't taking any fees, but their 3rd party is clearly skimming off the top (presumably with the book's knowledge and agreement).

[GradyFuson]

I made this post originally just to shame Pinnacle for skimming BTC payouts, I think Ronald is probably correct that their "processor" cryptopay is the one skimming. Optional contacted them and this is the reply I get!! I had pretty much chalked up the $300ish as lost but this feels like a slap in the face. As if I'm not smart enough to figure out the price of BTC at the time of the payout. Not only that but my account is in USD not CAD and at no time from the the time I requested the withdrawal until after the transaction was confirmed was the BTC price close to high enough for $63 CAD to cover the skimming. This whole thing has been a waste of my time in my opinion.

[BigdaddyQH]

If Pinnacle, or any other book is cheating you suckers out of money, why do you IDIOTS still use them? How f**king stupid are you guys. You are IDIOTS if you allow this to happen. You guys are all major losers to begin with. Save your breathe trying to deny it because I already checked some of you Bull S**tters out. For the amount of money you claim to lose, you can easily get a runner in Vegas to make your wagers for you and not have to worry about exchanges, cost of depositing and withdrawing, arguing with book that is offshore, leaving you suckers helpless to do anything about it, and having to ask Optional to bail your worthless tails out because you cannot do it yourselves. For guys who claim to know a lot, you know absolutely NOTHING about various ways to wager. This entire room is filled with stories about losers like yourselves claiming to have been cheated out of winnings by various books. I make all of my wagers through Vegas, and I have NEVER been cheated out of so much as a dime.

[BAUS]

Lol at Vegas. There’s a couple options like Circa, Westgate, and South Point that book real action. But otherwise no one there offers professional limits.

What is preferable is when an offshore book pays you within 99.9% of what you request via BTC, like Bookmaker does.

BAUS

[GradyFuson]

If Pinnacle, or any other book is cheating you suckers out of money, why do you IDIOTS still use them? How f**king stupid are you guys. You are IDIOTS if you allow this to happen. You guys are all major losers to begin with. Save your breathe trying to deny it because I already checked some of you Bull S**tters out. For the amount of money you claim to lose, you can easily get a runner in Vegas to make your wagers for you and not have to worry about exchanges, cost of depositing and withdrawing, arguing with book that is offshore, leaving you suckers helpless to do anything about it, and having to ask Optional to bail your worthless tails out because you cannot do it yourselves. For guys who claim to know a lot, you know absolutely NOTHING about various ways to wager. This entire room is filled with stories about losers like yourselves claiming to have been cheated out of winnings by various books. I make all of my wagers through Vegas, and I have NEVER been cheated out of so much as a dime.

This guy wagers through Vegas! He must be the sharpest guy around. Thanks for contributing.

[Alfie White]

What a dick reply "GiVe mE a PhoNE fOr BiTcOiN", such a douchebag attitude; serves you well, Karen.

[GradyFuson]

What a dick reply "GiVe mE a PhoNE fOr BiTcOiN", such a douchebag attitude; serves you well, Karen.

They told me to contact Bitcoin you mOrOn!

[cincinnatikid513]

If Pinnacle, or any other book is cheating you suckers out of money, why do you IDIOTS still use them? How f**king stupid are you guys. You are IDIOTS if you allow this to happen. You guys are all major losers to begin with. Save your breathe trying to deny it because I already checked some of you Bull S**tters out. For the amount of money you claim to lose, you can easily get a runner in Vegas to make your wagers for you and not have to worry about exchanges, cost of depositing and withdrawing, arguing with book that is offshore, leaving you suckers helpless to do anything about it, and having to ask Optional to bail your worthless tails out because you cannot do it yourselves. For guys who claim to know a lot, you know absolutely NOTHING about various ways to wager. This entire room is filled with stories about losers like yourselves claiming to have been cheated out of winnings by various books. I make all of my wagers through Vegas, and I have NEVER been cheated out of so much as a dime.

classiest guy at sbr , we are so lucky to have him

[BAUS]

Big Daddy, what do pay your Vegas runners?

BAUS

[GradyFuson]

He's got a degenerate college buddy who fills out $10 parlay cards for him. His buddy does it for the drink tickets at the SouthPoint.

[TheMoneyShot]

It's weird how smug and antagonizing Optional is to players. I have been seriously shorted on bitcoin withdrawals by almost all of the reputable books. Bookmaker once shorted me $500 on a $10,000 withdrawal; in the 4-5 hours it took, the implied bitcoin price of their payout was never even remotely reached (it would be like being paid today as if BTC were worth $13,000). They said it was because 'bitcoin is volatile'. But, to their credit they paid me out the additional $500. Lately betonline has been paying so fast that the amounts match nicely. In the past when BTC was really volatile they were slower and would always pay right after a big price drop and claim they processed it moments before. And the worst offender of all is 5Dimes. If you say you're going to deposit 10k and you sent the exact amount of btc they want, but in the hours it takes to show up in your account the btc price rises, they just credit you 10k. If btc tanks in the mean time, they'll give you the current price. Total freeroll. Believe HedgeHog has complained of this in the past.

But Optional thinks it's impossible. And is the one in charge of complaints. OK.

Optional is a great mod... give the guy a break. I agree with everything else in this post though. Very accurate. Especially the 5Dimes freeroll quote. It is 100% true.

[DontTailMe]

I made this post originally just to shame Pinnacle for skimming BTC payouts, I think Ronald is probably correct that their "processor" cryptopay is the one skimming. Optional contacted them and this is the reply I get!! I had pretty much chalked up the $300ish as lost but this feels like a slap in the face. As if I'm not smart enough to figure out the price of BTC at the time of the payout. Not only that but my account is in USD not CAD and at no time from the the time I requested the withdrawal until after the transaction was confirmed was the BTC price close to high enough for $63 CAD to cover the skimming. This whole thing has been a waste of my time in my opinion.

There is nothing more frustrating than when a book hides behind bitcoin price fluctuation to address a payout shortage. Especially when you've already shows them that fluctuation doesn't even come close to accounting for the difference. And when you've shown them that blockchain.com's "value when transacted" is way off - they love ignoring that.

[Limited]

Correct me if I am wrong but, Cryptopay exchange rate is worse than a market price. They have a high spread between buying and selling BTC. Pinnacle was/is using two providers to deal with BTC. Bitpay and Cryptopay I guess based on your location. Cryptopay has high limits and bad exch. rate.


In my case Pinnacle used Bitpay for BTC transactions and I've always received correct amount of €€€ however I could only WD 2000 € per day/transaction if using BTC. Skrill on the other hand has no limits.

[Optional]

I'm pretty sure Pinnacle uses a different processor for Bitcoin depending on which country the player is located in, which is why I asked Grady where he's at.

They use Cryptopay for Canadian accounts, but they used to use another processor a few years ago (can't remember the name). The other processor yielded a fair BTC conversion, but the daily limits were $1000 per payout if I recall correctly. Now the limits are 50k under Cryptopay. Perhaps Cryptopay charges the extra percentage as compensation for the risk involved in holding so much BTC at once? Just speculating. I don't believe Pinnacle is pocketing the difference; I believe that the processor is doing so. Having said that, I think Pinnacle should be more transparent about the average percentage per transaction one can expect to lose in the conversion. Or they should find a different processor that can handle large/numerous payouts. Bookmaker and Betonline have managed to do so.

Opti - which processor is listed in your Pinnacle account withdrawal section for BTC? I bet it's not Cryptopay.

Correct me if I am wrong but, Cryptopay exchange rate is worse than a market price. They have a high spread between buying and selling BTC. Pinnacle was/is using two providers to deal with BTC. Bitpay and Cryptopay I guess based on your location. Cryptopay has high limits and bad exch. rate.


In my case Pinnacle used Bitpay for BTC transactions and I've always received correct amount of €€€ however I could only WD 2000 € per day/transaction if using BTC. Skrill on the other hand has no limits.

This appears to be where the issue is.

And I think Pinnacle are aware of the problem and if they can negotiate a better rate or alternate solution they will.


Still speaking with the OP about the CA$63 thing but unfortunately, as Baus and Grady already knew better than me, this is just how it is for now for those forced to use Cryptopay.. :\

[Alfie White]

They told me to contact Bitcoin you mOrOn!

Piss of wanker, instead of saying them and making a penetrating 100% point by teaching them manners you went full Karen and saying "GiVe mE a PhoNE fOr BiTcOiN" card. Utmost wanker shit provoking people that have no input with BTC as that is not as common as Wire and/or Paysafe.

Good job mate, you feel full about yourself knowing BTC more than random Joe but still knowing SHIT about it?


Total wanker, both you and your salad tossing bitch BAUS that is so immature that he has to SIGN his posts like a uber degenerate.

[DroopyDog]

5dimes shorted me about $1500 on a large bitcoin withdraw, i filed a complaint after getting nowhere with 5dimes, and SBR told me i should probably not pursue it if i wanted to keep my 5dimes account. This was when Tony was still there.


This seems to be a widespread issue. They will always look for a way to stick it to us.

[BAUS]

This appears to be where the issue is.

And I think Pinnacle are aware of the problem and if they can negotiate a better rate or alternate solution they will.


Still speaking with the OP about the CA$63 thing but unfortunately, as Baus and Grady already knew better than me, this is just how it is for now for those forced to use Cryptopay.. :\

Again, Bookmaker is capable of sending $25,000 in BTC and the receiver will get $25,000 give or take $10.

The same amount with Pinnacle and you’ll receive $24,200 or so.

So either Pinnacle is skimming or they’re simply foolish for using a third party to handle the BTC transactions. When the BTC fee to send $25,000 is $3-5 there is no excuse for this.

BAUS

[BAUS]

Piss of wanker, instead of saying them and making a penetrating 100% point by teaching them manners you went full Karen and saying "GiVe mE a PhoNE fOr BiTcOiN" card. Utmost wanker shit provoking people that have no input with BTC as that is not as common as Wire and/or Paysafe.

Good job mate, you feel full about yourself knowing BTC more than random Joe but still knowing SHIT about it?


Total wanker, both you and your salad tossing bitch BAUS that is so immature that he has to SIGN his posts like a uber degenerate.

Paysafe? Serious bettors are using BTC to move money, not nickel and dime vouchers you buy at the gas station.

Mods; it’s probably time for Alfie to be given a little time out.

BAUS

[Alfie White]

Serious bettors are using wire, and since you love gas stations you and your OP friend can earn a buck for next round with some shit books since Pin is "sHOrTIng yoU".

Again, you guys obviously have no clue how BTC works in exchange world and you try to teach someone else anything, get your heads out of your asses as you are acting like ignorant penetrates without any clue.

[Optional]

Again, Bookmaker is capable of sending $25,000 in BTC and the receiver will get $25,000 give or take $10.

The same amount with Pinnacle and you’ll receive $24,200 or so.

So either Pinnacle is skimming or they’re simply foolish for using a third party to handle the BTC transactions. When the BTC fee to send $25,000 is $3-5 there is no excuse for this.

BAUS

Given users of Bitpay for withdrawals are sent pretty much exactly what they expect every time, I think it's obviously at the processor end, not Pinny "skimming".

Why they want/need to use such a shitty bitcoin processor for some people would be my first question before claiming it's skimming you on purpose.

[BAUS]

I will strongly disagree that serious bettors use wires. Why use a wire? So you can wait 2-10 business days for it to hit your bank? And pay bank fees?

Also many books charge 1-2% on their end to process a wire.

The whole purpose of BTC is to avoid fees; not pay more in fees! 🤯

BAUS

[Limited]

The whole purpose of BTC is to avoid fees; not pay more in fees! ��

Totally true. BUT Pinnacle is not using BTC, instead they are using 3rd party processors. Probably not too smart management decision from Pin., specially by choosing Cryptopay as one of their partners. You can blame Pinnacle for that, but not for skimming you. The one who is skimming here is Cryptopay.

[Alfie White]

2-10 business days for wire? Thanks for showing how ignorant and out-of-date you are.

I am not having any further conversation with you as you are dragging whole thread to single digit IQ and want us to roll in mud with you, have fun with OP.

[DontTailMe]

Totally true. BUT Pinnacle is not using BTC, instead they are using 3rd party processors. Probably not too smart management decision from Pin., specially by choosing Cryptopay as one of their partners. You can blame Pinnacle for that, but not for skimming you. The one who is skimming here is Cryptopay.

It doesn't matter if Pinnacle is the one doing the skimming or not. Pinnacle is providing a service, and whether it's done at their node or at the 3rd party node, the customer is being skimmed.

Somewhere along the line, when Pinnacle chose to go into business with Cryptopay, there had to have been a conversation which went something like this:

Pinnacle: "But wait. If we aren't paying you or paying you so little, then how do you make money in all of this?"
Cryptopay: "We'll just take our fees as a small % of each transaction. It will all come out in the wash due to market fluctuation anyways."

If they didn't have that conversation, then they were being willfully ignorant. And either way, they have to know by NOW that this is exactly what is going on, given X # of complaints they've no doubt received.

[BAUS]

It doesn't matter if Pinnacle is the one doing the skimming or not. Pinnacle is providing a service, and whether it's done at their node or at the 3rd party node, the customer is being skimmed.

Somewhere along the line, when Pinnacle chose to go into business with Cryptopay, there had to have been a conversation which went something like this:

Pinnacle: "But wait. If we aren't paying you or paying you so little, then how do you make money in all of this?"
Cryptopay: "We'll just take our fees as a small % of each transaction. It will all come out in the wash due to market fluctuation anyways."

If they didn't have that conversation, then they were being willfully ignorant. And either way, they have to know by NOW that this is exactly what is going on, given X # of complaints they've no doubt received.

Someone who gets it!!

Pinnacle or Cryptopay (or both) are making $20,000-40,000 per day off this little skimming operation.

BAUS

[icon]

This guy wagers through Vegas! He must be the sharpest guy around. Thanks for contributing.

I think he thinks he's really smart, after all he took time out of his busy schedule to chime in about how dumb everybody else is.

I was tempted to put him on ignore but BigdaddyQH posts some seriously unintentionally funny stuff. Wouldn't want to miss that.

[icon]

Again, Bookmaker is capable of sending $25,000 in BTC and the receiver will get $25,000 give or take $10.

The same amount with Pinnacle and you’ll receive $24,200 or so.

So either Pinnacle is skimming or they’re simply foolish for using a third party to handle the BTC transactions. When the BTC fee to send $25,000 is $3-5 there is no excuse for this.

BAUS

Well to be fair Bookmaker MUST offer bitcoin as they mostly serve the US market and their payout options are slim.

Pinnacle has a much larger variety of payout options for their clients and I believe bitcoin would be a choice of last resort for most that have an account there. I've used bitcoin as a payout method a while back and wouldn't use it now as they have other methods that are much preferred.

Did you know that if you take a payout from pinnacle using muchbetter you can receive bitcoin? Its true, muchbetter takes bitcoin for funding and withdrawing, fee is approx 2% if I remember correctly. Its definitely faster than a direct bitcoin withdrawal from pinny. Muchbetter payouts done in less than 5 mins.