Fairlay's New Commission Structure

[Barrakuda]

I see this in the api and it does allow you to set a time to cancel orders sure but you are cancelling based on staleness of the line or an error BUT you still do not have the user data to cancel based on that

• MakerCancelTime - Time in milisseconds you have to void this order. Every time you exerts your right to (maker)void a bet, a fee is deducted from your account. This fee is currently 300 requests or 0.003mBTC but will be increased if needed.
  
  
  what I did with this option, was api the bet against Pinnacle's api to ensure the odds were in line to avoid people betting bad or stale lines BUT never received user (bettor) data, NOT saying they dont have a secret door but if they do again it is a SECRET.

How many milliseconds do they allow?

As far as the ID leak goes, Onjen told me this directly upon questioning. He advised me to create new IDs if privacy was a concern. LOL.

Not trying to persuade anyone to leave Fairlay, but the final huge concern I have is that the main market maker -- without whom the site would cease to exist -- is operating on credit. When I asked Onjen about this, he stated that Fairlay keeps all customer funds segregated in a visible address, BUT the main MM -- who has million of dollars on offer at any given time -- does not, of course have to put up any funds. So if someone or group absolutely destroys the main MM for size one night -- meaning millions of dollars -- odds of that bettor getting paid are slim to none, and same for regular users with pending winning bets that day.

Every book has risk. But at least it's basically one party you are trusting, and it usually gets two-way action on most bets. WIth Fairlay, you have to trust that they will pay you and that the market maker will pay them, while realizing that most markets they trade do not have two-way action and this are exposed to a ton more risk.

I've used site for four years, so clearly I thought the reward outweighed the risk. But with more and more orders getting cancelled for no reason, the value prop has become much less appealing.

[TennisAceE]

This is a good book for high limits and Pinny odds.
If you dont mind the commissions they take, its a good choice.

[danshan11]

How many milliseconds do they allow?

As far as the ID leak goes, Onjen told me this directly upon questioning. He advised me to create new IDs if privacy was a concern. LOL.

Not trying to persuade anyone to leave Fairlay, but the final huge concern I have is that the main market maker -- without whom the site would cease to exist -- is operating on credit. When I asked Onjen about this, he stated that Fairlay keeps all customer funds segregated in a visible address, BUT the main MM -- who has million of dollars on offer at any given time -- does not, of course have to put up any funds. So if someone or group absolutely destroys the main MM for size one night -- meaning millions of dollars -- odds of that bettor getting paid are slim to none, and same for regular users with pending winning bets that day.

Every book has risk. But at least it's basically one party you are trusting, and it usually gets two-way action on most bets. WIth Fairlay, you have to trust that they will pay you and that the market maker will pay them, while realizing that most markets they trade do not have two-way action and this are exposed to a ton more risk.

I've used site for four years, so clearly I thought the reward outweighed the risk. But with more and more orders getting cancelled for no reason, the value prop has become much less appealing.

I am super familiar with the API, I use it daily and I have never found any option or ability to see a users ID. I am not sure on the MS count but it is meant to ensure that the MM can cancel if there is a stale line, it is reasonable it is essentially what the books do when you click place bet and it says error, or bet did not go through or price has changed, well that wheel is spinning most books software is checking volume and the price before accepting.

support told you the site does not have funds to cover bets, they have the main MM putting up balances and matches without funds? I know that in most cases the MM on big markets is tons of people together, it is very competitive for MMs.

[Barrakuda]

I am super familiar with the API, I use it daily and I have never found any option or ability to see a users ID. I am not sure on the MS count but it is meant to ensure that the MM can cancel if there is a stale line, it is reasonable it is essentially what the books do when you click place bet and it says error, or bet did not go through or price has changed, well that wheel is spinning most books software is checking volume and the price before accepting.

support told you the site does not have funds to cover bets, they have the main MM putting up balances and matches without funds? I know that in most cases the MM on big markets is tons of people together, it is very competitive for MMs.

No. There is one giant MM who has been there the whole time. Then there is a small one inside his spread (prob the same MM actually) -- and a sprinkling of $20 guys in major games. The idea that there are tons of MMs posting is laughable. Maybe soccer. But certainly not US sports.

[TheMoneyShot]

No. There is one giant MM who has been there the whole time. Then there is a small one inside his spread (prob the same MM actually) -- and a sprinkling of $20 guys in major games. The idea that there are tons of MMs posting is laughable. Maybe soccer. But certainly not US sports.

Sometimes I believe that perhaps.... Fairlay runs the show.... like a regular sportsbook.

And the average Joe isn't the one making an open order.

[Limited]

FairLay will be a good option when the posted lines/offers will be matched instantly. The delays and refused bets are making this platform quite useless. The makers are privileged to take or refuse the bet, which in my view is unacceptable. FairLay itself should stay out of making lines and offers (if they do it), they should focus on commissions and on creating a fast, secure and fair platform for all users.

[danshan11]

every single book does this and I have NEVER EVER had a bet refused!

[Limited]

every single book does this and I have NEVER EVER had a bet refused!

Really? And isn't FairLay an exchange?

Like I said before, many bets refused after the delay. That is because makers are checking if Pin has moved, and if it had moved, you ll get a message that the odds are not more available. So bet is refused, or whatever u like to call this situation. No such a thing happening with Matchbook. So I am staying with what I said: FairLay will be useful when the offered lines will be matched instantly without allowing makers to change their mind, because Pin has moved.

[Optional]

Really? And isn't FairLay an exchange?

Like I said before, many bets refused after the delay. That is because makers are checking if Pin has moved, and if it had moved, you ll get a message that the odds are not more available. So bet is refused, or whatever u like to call this situation. No such a thing happening with Matchbook. So I am staying with what I said: FairLay will be useful when the offered lines will be matched instantly without allowing makers to change their mind, because Pin has moved.

Has anyone else had this experience?

Trying to accept exchange posted offers and it going to review?

Anyone else been rejected as well?

[TheMoneyShot]

Has anyone else had this experience?

Trying to accept exchange posted offers and it going to review?

Anyone else been rejected as well?

99% of the time all of my wagers have been accepted. The only 1% of the time anything gets rejected... involves server issues.

Like I said... Fairlay wants to be called an exchange.... but there are some lines and markets that reminds me of a typical sportsbook. Regardless.... they've always paid me.

[TheMoneyShot]

I didn't want to make an entirely new thread for this question....

At Fairlay when wagering MLB.... there isn't an option for LISTING PITCHERS. So, correct me if I'm wrong.... if you wager on a game... for example.... Houston Astros (Verlander) and you select them. 3 hours later.... he doesn't actually start... someone replaces him... Does your original wager stand??? I believe it does.... but can someone chime in and let me know?

Add on... not only it stands... but they don't even recalculate the ML for the new pitcher.

[Optional]

It stands, and odds are adjusted by market forces. But your original odds are locked in.

[raiders72001]

How many milliseconds do they allow?

As far as the ID leak goes, Onjen told me this directly upon questioning. He advised me to create new IDs if privacy was a concern. LOL.

Not trying to persuade anyone to leave Fairlay, but the final huge concern I have is that the main market maker -- without whom the site would cease to exist -- is operating on credit. When I asked Onjen about this, he stated that Fairlay keeps all customer funds segregated in a visible address, BUT the main MM -- who has million of dollars on offer at any given time -- does not, of course have to put up any funds. So if someone or group absolutely destroys the main MM for size one night -- meaning millions of dollars -- odds of that bettor getting paid are slim to none, and same for regular users with pending winning bets that day.

Every book has risk. But at least it's basically one party you are trusting, and it usually gets two-way action on most bets. WIth Fairlay, you have to trust that they will pay you and that the market maker will pay them, while realizing that most markets they trade do not have two-way action and this are exposed to a ton more risk.

I've used site for four years, so clearly I thought the reward outweighed the risk. But with more and more orders getting cancelled for no reason, the value prop has become much less appealing.

That was one of my concerns with Fairlay. They work as a sportsbook and not an exchange. As you said, two entities have to be trusted, MM and Fairlay.

[raiders72001]

2-4 cents is not a shade worse.

Although it depends on the percentage rather than the cents. It's also market specific since Nitro is -105 NFL.

[danshan11]

I didn't want to make an entirely new thread for this question....

At Fairlay when wagering MLB.... there isn't an option for LISTING PITCHERS. So, correct me if I'm wrong.... if you wager on a game... for example.... Houston Astros (Verlander) and you select them. 3 hours later.... he doesn't actually start... someone replaces him... Does your original wager stand??? I believe it does.... but can someone chime in and let me know?

Add on... not only it stands... but they don't even recalculate the ML for the new pitcher.

they normally have listed starter except for preseason

[danshan11]

That was one of my concerns with Fairlay. They work as a sportsbook and not an exchange. As you said, two entities have to be trusted, MM and Fairlay.

why do you need to trust 2 entities?

[raiders72001]

why do you need to trust 2 entities?

By the letter of the law, it's just Fairlay. But if the MM stiffs Fairlay for a substantial amount of money, that puts Fairlay in the position of covering for the MM.

The amount of money in their wallet isn't worth much imo. Cloudbet's wallet is huge but they stiff players.

[danshan11]

what tells you the "MM" is not funding the bets?

[danshan11]

you really think fairlay is letting a MM not fund their account and take bets? why would they do that?

[littlekona]

you really think fairlay is letting a MM not fund their account and take bets? why would they do that?

They could and settle up daily, weekly ect....but whatever the case if they do this they have a strong relationship with the MM...who knows it could even be pinny the big MM....like with any offshore all we can do is go by past actions and Fairlay has paid every legit player and has no cases but the 1 betg case which he caused himself the problems....I have seen 50k wins from punters weekly...remember too the guys at Fairlay are brainy tech geeks and have developed the site from scratch, I don’t think they would jeaopordise all the efforts they have put in....

[danshan11]

i think if we knew what most books were doing behind the scenes we would not bet anywhere, fairlay at this moment is as safe as any, now can this change in 1 second OF COURSE

[lotuspod]

By the letter of the law, it's just Fairlay. But if the MM stiffs Fairlay for a substantial amount of money, that puts Fairlay in the position of covering for the MM.

The amount of money in their wallet isn't worth much imo. Cloudbet's wallet is huge but they stiff players.

Central point of failure seemingly centered on one main entity/individual? Where all have we seen this general situation before, and how has it typically ended up in the long-term?

And if this MM is a truly independent third-party, then what is his incentive to continue to remain when it seems he carry an entire small exchange himself - reaping greater rewards at lower risk.

[danshan11]

are you saying 1 person cannot be honest? are you saying the owners of pinnacle cant run off with the money? are you saying that the chances of pinnacle folding and stealing my money is higher than the value of wagerr coin dropping to 1 cent essentially worthless?

and contrary to the repeated statement of Fairlay having only one MM, that argument is horrible, there are tons of MMs on fairlay. and if the main MM disappeared there would still be peer to peer markets and business would keep on rolling.
People get paid to create markets and of course MMs make money by beating the line.

[eaglesfan371]

LOL Fairlay books 100+ BTC on the political events they have on there like "will Trump be x at x point". These events do not grade for at least a year or two. There is literally NO argument you can provide for them not having liquidity. I mean HELL look at their proof of reserves. At any given moment they sign using a wallet they own an account with minimum 100 BTC. Their long term events also provide constant liquidity.

The fact someone even questions their liquidity shows they clearly do not understand Fairlay and that they have very little understanding of bitcoin.

Nitrogen would run out of funds before Fairlay.


As for the small MM, there usually is a 15 mbtc guy who provides slightly better odds. Sometimes I can hit that 15mbtc a few times before it disappears and I take Pinny odds.

[acquavallo]

are you saying 1 person cannot be honest? are you saying the owners of pinnacle cant run off with the money? are you saying that the chances of pinnacle folding and stealing my money is higher than the value of wagerr coin dropping to 1 cent essentially worthless?
and contrary to the repeated statement of Fairlay having only one MM, that argument is horrible, there are tons of MMs on fairlay. and if the main MM disappeared there would still be peer to peer markets and business would keep on rolling.
People get paid to create markets and of course MMs make money by beating the line.

I'm not trolling, but exchanges in general are in theory exchanges / in practice more like books due to MM's... individual game pools could be very hit or miss without them...and even with them. This is why some exchanges ban or commission winners out of existence. The other problems are not getting in a hedge or reverse at exchange(of initial bet already made already confirmed somewhere else) because the only/big MM is not seeding that day(so it's a bunch of small individual bets), or cancels bet, or others beat you to the bet.

It's a minefield everywhere. Pinny years ago went through a problem where several seeders left, cratering max bet amounts at times.

[danshan11]

I dont see any reason to bet anywhere else, there is almost always at low limits better pricing than pinnacle and 99% of the time a large limit is available for pinnacle prices. if you are afraid of being cut because of skill, you can create as many accounts as you need. I highly doubt they use any fingerprinting and I have never read anywhere that someone was banned from fairlay.

[raiders72001]

I don't believe that there are true 100 BTC bets on political events 1 to 2 years off. Not many want to tie their money up that long. The bitcoin price is volatile. If the price went back to it's high, that would be a $2m bet settled in a year or two.

Fairlay has 2 to 3 major market makers.

As littlekona stated they are tech guys who are heavily involved in cryptocurrencies.

[Barrakuda]

LOL Fairlay books 100+ BTC on the political events they have on there like "will Trump be x at x point". These events do not grade for at least a year or two. There is literally NO argument you can provide for them not having liquidity. I mean HELL look at their proof of reserves. At any given moment they sign using a wallet they own an account with minimum 100 BTC. Their long term events also provide constant liquidity.

The fact someone even questions their liquidity shows they clearly do not understand Fairlay and that they have very little understanding of bitcoin.

Nitrogen would run out of funds before Fairlay.


As for the small MM, there usually is a 15 mbtc guy who provides slightly better odds. Sometimes I can hit that 15mbtc a few times before it disappears and I take Pinny odds.

Wow. You really don't understand counterparty risk.

[Barrakuda]

are you saying 1 person cannot be honest? are you saying the owners of pinnacle cant run off with the money? are you saying that the chances of pinnacle folding and stealing my money is higher than the value of wagerr coin dropping to 1 cent essentially worthless?

and contrary to the repeated statement of Fairlay having only one MM, that argument is horrible, there are tons of MMs on fairlay. and if the main MM disappeared there would still be peer to peer markets and business would keep on rolling.
People get paid to create markets and of course MMs make money by beating the line.

You cannot really be this naive, can you? About a year or two ago, the MM went down for a couple days and there were literally no offers anywhere during that time. Fairlay is 100% dependent on their market maker. he leaves, and they are done.

Guess how much total volume this rollicking marketplace has booked on an NBA game about to tip off.... 0.014 BTC. 50 USD TOTAL booked on an NBA side. https://fairlay.com/market/cleveland...phia-76ers-432

[Barrakuda]

what tells you the "MM" is not funding the bets?

read the thread, juvenile. The site owner told me. Also, if you have a brain, you'll realize that a MM if not going to front the tens of millions of dollars at risk on Fairlay on a daily basis.

Serious question: how old are you?

[danshan11]

read the thread, juvenile. The site owner told me. Also, if you have a brain, you'll realize that a MM if not going to front the tens of millions of dollars at risk on Fairlay on a daily basis.

Serious question: how old are you?

go check your birth control pills it sounds like it might be the beginning of that 1 week a month.

the site owner told you, he said "NO WE dont have any funds we just put up lines and offer crap to everyone without any support of that", he told you that? give me a break no one told you that, you might have like you do everything else read into something he said and turned it into that, now I could believe that. like he told you we make the market maker settle at midnight and that meant to you, this is not funded see told you.

I think fairlay guys are smart techy dudes and I think they got more btc than you can imagine, techy dudes that got in early. I think they actually went out and got one of the Pinnacle or whoever guys, got it explained to them and they use the spare btc on their keepkey to fund this thing and they clean the fukk up everyday.

the volume on fairlay is funny, they might bet a 50-100 btc per day. also remember there is no need on fairlay to have funds for both siders

if you get a bet at -120 on Yankees and you get a bet on +130 Orioles, those coins become available again, the only thing fairlay holds is at risk funds not all bets.

dont call me names dude, its not necessary.
I am almost 47 years old or maybe 48, I dont remember

[littlekona]

from CEO's LinkedIn

Fairlay is a Bitcoin Prediction/Betting Market and a Crypto-Currencies Exchange.

We were founded in 2013 in London by the founders of Gnosis, they quickly moved on to work with Consensys and sold their shares to other investors. Though we had some tough times where parts of the team left and we were very short on man power, our team is now larger and better than ever before. Almost 4 years since our original release, after establishing ourselves as the best and most liquid Bitcoin Prediction Market we came out of beta and migrated to Costa Rica in 2017.

We specialise in getting reliable information for everyone. Anybody can create any kind of binary event derivative or CFD. Most of our predictions are on sports betting, but we are working to improve liquidity in politics, economics, and crypto. We also intend to decentralise our platform and run it with smart-contracts on RSK.

Fairlay seeks to crowd-source information by providing a totally open prediction market. Functioning more like a conditional betting exchange, Fairlay not only allows users to bet but to see public confidence on various bitcoin and altcoin related events, as well as sports, and general news. By using Bitcoin to allow users to demonstrate where their confidence lies regarding a specific event, Fairlay can aggregate the wisdom of the majority.

There is a huge potential in the possibilities of an open prediction market. Bitcoin could be the technological enabler for that. Fairlay sees a prediction market as a great tool to evaluate risks, hedge risks and aggregate information. Why do we have lots of different numbers for weather forecasts or as election predictions? Fairlay believes that a working prediction market could aggregate all data into the best available forecast. If someone has newer or better information he is able to bet against the current prediction, improving the forecast and get rewarded in the process.

[danshan11]

from CEO's LinkedIn

Fairlay is a Bitcoin Prediction/Betting Market and a Crypto-Currencies Exchange.

We were founded in 2013 in London by the founders of Gnosis, they quickly moved on to work with Consensys and sold their shares to other investors. Though we had some tough times where parts of the team left and we were very short on man power, our team is now larger and better than ever before. Almost 4 years since our original release, after establishing ourselves as the best and most liquid Bitcoin Prediction Market we came out of beta and migrated to Costa Rica in 2017.

We specialise in getting reliable information for everyone. Anybody can create any kind of binary event derivative or CFD. Most of our predictions are on sports betting, but we are working to improve liquidity in politics, economics, and crypto. We also intend to decentralise our platform and run it with smart-contracts on RSK.

Fairlay seeks to crowd-source information by providing a totally open prediction market. Functioning more like a conditional betting exchange, Fairlay not only allows users to bet but to see public confidence on various bitcoin and altcoin related events, as well as sports, and general news. By using Bitcoin to allow users to demonstrate where their confidence lies regarding a specific event, Fairlay can aggregate the wisdom of the majority.

There is a huge potential in the possibilities of an open prediction market. Bitcoin could be the technological enabler for that. Fairlay sees a prediction market as a great tool to evaluate risks, hedge risks and aggregate information. Why do we have lots of different numbers for weather forecasts or as election predictions? Fairlay believes that a working prediction market could aggregate all data into the best available forecast. If someone has newer or better information he is able to bet against the current prediction, improving the forecast and get rewarded in the process.

this sounds like they are talking about beating the line!!!!

[littlekona]

From what I have read all btc including all market makers is stored in cold wallet....open orders have no influence as any User or mm can deposit say 1 btc and and place 10000 btc in open orders...the system will only match up to the users or mm deposits or available funds.....I have tried and it is truth as I will make 1000 mbtc in offerings on horses with only 100 available....try it ask for +150 +149 +148 on an event pinny has at -120 You can as a marker even though you do not have funds to cover all...BUT If they fill once you hit your balance no more match

[Optional]

this sounds like they are talking about beating the line!!!!

I thought it sounded like repeating obvious stuff to avoid answering any question.

Could almost feel the smoke being blown into my rear end as I read.