Tax Implications for Off-Shore Sportsbooks i.e. 5Dimes, BetOnline, Bookmaker

**milwaukee mike** · 01-18-19, 10:31 AM

if you're a professional, it would also be subject to self-employment taxes... but you can net out your expenses on schedule C (computer/internet/cell phone/etc). starting in 2018 the net number can no longer be a loss, which stinks because if in 2018 you show a net profit of $30k it gets hit with potentially 12k of income/self-employment tax, and then in 2019 you have a net loss of $30k and you can't claim it.

so you broke even over a 2-year period yet still paid 12k in taxes.

if you're not a professional, then it gets even crappier, you can't deduct any expenses and the losses are an itemized deduction. and you could be forced to list the transactions separately, so you might have $1 million in wins, and 950,000 in losses, which can create some real problems because the $1 million would be included in adjusted gross income and could push other stuff into higher taxability... in the state of wisconsin it gets real fun because the losses aren't deductible, so now you made 50k and pay 70k in wisconsin income taxes!

**peteypab89** · 01-18-19, 10:49 AM

what would happen if you didn't report winnings in the 10-20k range if you cashed out over the course of a year or two with bitcoin? asking for a friend

**littlekona** · 01-18-19, 11:26 AM

Originally posted by peteypab89

what would happen if you didn't report winnings in the 10-20k range if you cashed out over the course of a year or two with bitcoin? asking for a friend

Nothing as long as you have income besides gambling winnings it’s very easy to explain....I have never reported anything every over 30 years besides legal horse wagers where it generated a signer ticket

**Shifty** · 01-18-19, 02:18 PM

Milwaukee Mike is spot on about adjusted gross income. The IRS rules really screw Americans with gambling income. It is worse now with the new tax laws because it forces you to itemize to write off losses. Best to file as a professional bettor if you can. Here's a good podcast on the subject with a tax pro. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBWp5gpqTMM

Or just bet that you won't get audited and don't report it. Be careful if you've redeemed a lot of bitcoin or if you get a 1099 from a bitcoin exchange.

**spicybulldog15** · 01-22-19, 11:35 AM

Originally posted by littlekona

Nothing as long as you have income besides gambling winnings it’s very easy to explain....I have never reported anything every over 30 years besides legal horse wagers where it generated a signer ticket

Hey Lil' Kona! So if you are saying...if I receive W-2s yearly, you don't need to worry about $25,000 that comes into your bank account as a wire?

**spicybulldog15** · 01-22-19, 11:37 AM

Originally posted by Shifty

Milwaukee Mike is spot on about adjusted gross income. The IRS rules really screw Americans with gambling income. It is worse now with the new tax laws because it forces you to itemize to write off losses. Best to file as a professional bettor if you can. Here's a good podcast on the subject with a tax pro. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBWp5gpqTMM

Or just bet that you won't get audited and don't report it. Be careful if you've redeemed a lot of bitcoin or if you get a 1099 from a bitcoin exchange.

Hey Shifty! Thank you for the link. It was a great listen. So, it is safe to report anything that comes through your bank account, right?

**littlekona** · 01-22-19, 12:01 PM

Originally posted by spicybulldog15

Hey Lil' Kona! So if you are saying...if I receive W-2s yearly, you don't need to worry about $25,000 that comes into your bank account as a wire?

Ofshore is not sending or reporting so no need to worry...BUT the question of a 25k wire may of worry as it’s over 10k and banks document those...not sure if IRS gets that info or if it’s just standard KYC doc. Worse case if they deem as income or question you will have to pay taxes on it plus penalty...never ever do any USA trans over 10k with a regulated financial institution....

**TheMoneyShot** · 01-22-19, 12:20 PM

Originally posted by spicybulldog15

Hey Lil' Kona! So if you are saying...if I receive W-2s yearly, you don't need to worry about $25,000 that comes into your bank account as a wire?

The real question is... why are you allowing it to hit your bank?

**bonzaii** · 01-22-19, 01:09 PM

You take the risk you get the gain.

**BetJesus** · 01-22-19, 02:01 PM

At some point, whether your withdrawal is wire, BTC, or other form, Uncle Sam is going to come for his share. Increasingly, crypto wallets are sending out 1099s. I will be getting one from two different wallets and have to pay the piper. I’ve also been dinged by banks in the past because of five figure wires that came from suspecting accounts, foreign accounts, etc. It is my understanding that the $10k figure is a myth. Yes, it is true that banks must report anything greater than $9,999, but these accounts that processors use are known and flagged. It’s a matter of resources as to why they aren’t investigated/shut down.

**crinkle** · 01-22-19, 02:49 PM

Probably not a good idea to take accounting/legal advice from a forum like this. There have to be tax professionals who have experience with your concerns.

**littlekona** · 01-22-19, 02:50 PM

Originally posted by BetJesus

At some point, whether your withdrawal is wire, BTC, or other form, Uncle Sam is going to come for his share. Increasingly, crypto wallets are sending out 1099s. I will be getting one from two different wallets and have to pay the piper. I’ve also been dinged by banks in the past because of five figure wires that came from suspecting accounts, foreign accounts, etc. It is my understanding that the $10k figure is a myth. Yes, it is true that banks must report anything greater than $9,999, but these accounts that processors use are known and flagged. It’s a matter of resources as to why they aren’t investigated/shut down.

If you have other income besides gambling it’s Very easy to avoid example of bitpay is no different then any pre paid card that millions dump there pay checks into or load funds on to pay bills...it’s cant be taxed as that would be double tax since funds from pay already are....many other easy go around if you work

**MrCavalier** · 01-22-19, 04:11 PM

What wallet are you using BetJesus that asks for personal info? Never heard of that besides coin base.

**MrCavalier** · 01-22-19, 04:22 PM

Originally posted by spicybulldog15

Quick question for everyone:

What are the tax implications for off-shore sportsbook i.e. 5Dimes, BetOnline, Bookmaker?

For example, if I make $50,000 over the course of this year, do I need to report this winning as 'Other Income' when I report my taxes next year?

I have been researching pretty heavily but can't seem to figure out answer on my own.

Thank you much in advance guys!

I won’t confirm or deny I do this.. If your worried...Go to Walmart buy a prepaid phone.. Find a bitcoin atm and cash out from there. Around me it’s about 6%.. ATM will let you cash out 2999 a day without id.. The can you get dont bank it.. get a deposit box, store it there.. Books aren’t sending your info to irs.. Taake a 25k wire from offshore and it’s going to be flagged.. Homeland security and IRS.. This isn’t 1999.. Take the 6% hit.. you ever get audited first 6% is a write off for you.. Lastly IRS audit is only good 3 years unless you omit 25% or more of income. I always claim a little.. Just to stay under that 25%... I Put it down as miscellaneous
Income.. I write off gas and the miles for the grass i supposedly cut and snow I shovel.. Never been touched by IRS.. When I young and dumb I would cash out 30-40k at a time at Wynn.. That was stupid a ctr was done... But still never got audited..

**MrCavalier** · 01-22-19, 04:28 PM

Originally posted by BetJesus

At some point, whether your withdrawal is wire, BTC, or other form, Uncle Sam is going to come for his share. Increasingly, crypto wallets are sending out 1099s. I will be getting one from two different wallets and have to pay the piper. I’ve also been dinged by banks in the past because of five figure wires that came from suspecting accounts, foreign accounts, etc. It is my understanding that the $10k figure is a myth. Yes, it is true that banks must report anything greater than $9,999, but these accounts that processors use are known and flagged. It’s a matter of resources as to why they aren’t investigated/shut down.

100% false.. IRS just settled with coinbase.. IRS will not compel coinbase to provide info on anyone who cashed out under 20k. 10k isnt myth ctr is generated on any 10k transaction... Banks dinged you not because of processor, but FEDS all over wire transfers over 10k! Been this way since 9-11... Got to be smarter than that

**BetJesus** · 01-22-19, 04:49 PM

Originally posted by MrCavalier

100% false.. IRS just settled with coinbase.. IRS will not compel coinbase to provide info on anyone who cashed out under 20k. 10k isnt myth ctr is generated on any 10k transaction... Banks dinged you not because of processor, but FEDS all over wire transfers over 10k! Been this way since 9-11... Got to be smarter than that

Lol. So in short, the $10k and up transactions is a myth, because you can be dinged for smaller transactions, whether by banks or feds.

$20k in btc is nothing, so yeah, many of us will get 1099s.

Are you stoopid?

**MrCavalier** · 01-22-19, 04:59 PM

Originally posted by BetJesus

Lol. So in short, the $10k and up transactions is a myth, because you can be dinged for smaller transactions, whether by banks or feds.

$20k in btc is nothing, so yeah, many of us will get 1099s.

Are you stoopid?

Coinbase sued IRS, IRS wanted all crypto info.. Coinbase said that was too burdensome.. went to court, case settled out of court.. Comprise was coinbase turn over anyone who made over 20k to irs.. case closed.. banks can give a fck less where you are getting the cash.. Homeland and IRS is different story... Are you slow or just stoopid? Who the fck is flagging the processor? Chase? Wellsfargo? BkofAma? Your local shit bank? I mean come on you can’t be that dense dude

**spicybulldog15** · 01-22-19, 05:18 PM

Originally posted by TheMoneyShot

The real question is... why are you allowing it to hit your bank?

Great point. Because I can't find any local around me or maybe I don't know how

**spicybulldog15** · 01-22-19, 05:19 PM

Originally posted by littlekona

If you have other income besides gambling it’s Very easy to avoid example of bitpay is no different then any pre paid card that millions dump there pay checks into or load funds on to pay bills...it’s cant be taxed as that would be double tax since funds from pay already are....many other easy go around if you work

Woo...this is something that I never knew about. More info on this or share a link?

**spicybulldog15** · 01-22-19, 05:20 PM

Originally posted by MrCavalier

I won’t confirm or deny I do this.. If your worried...Go to Walmart buy a prepaid phone.. Find a bitcoin atm and cash out from there. Around me it’s about 6%.. ATM will let you cash out 2999 a day without id.. The can you get dont bank it.. get a deposit box, store it there.. Books aren’t sending your info to irs.. Taake a 25k wire from offshore and it’s going to be flagged.. Homeland security and IRS.. This isn’t 1999.. Take the 6% hit.. you ever get audited first 6% is a write off for you.. Lastly IRS audit is only good 3 years unless you omit 25% or more of income. I always claim a little.. Just to stay under that 25%... I Put it down as miscellaneous
Income.. I write off gas and the miles for the grass i supposedly cut and snow I shovel.. Never been touched by IRS.. When I young and dumb I would cash out 30-40k at a time at Wynn.. That was stupid a ctr was done... But still never got audited..

So...in order to do this, you have to cashout with BTC first, correct? Then you are eligible for cashing out. Am I right? It's kind of hard to follow since it's all new for me.

**TheMoneyShot** · 01-22-19, 06:28 PM

Originally posted by spicybulldog15

Woo...this is something that I never knew about. More info on this or share a link?

If you research the entire "Bitcoin Sports Betting" section at SBR... you should find a lot of comments about this.

We're not suggesting what is right or wrong... that's for you to decide. But no one should ever allow funds to hit their bank accounts.

**littlekona** · 01-22-19, 07:25 PM

always remember unless your big boy win machine and use banks too often and large amounts IRS too busy with Ronald Rump types then you

**spicybulldog15** · 01-22-19, 08:22 PM

Does any of you guys know if there are any restrictions regards to M.G. Person-2-Person Payouts? Any experience in that perspective?

**crinkle** · 01-22-19, 08:57 PM

There have to be tax professionals/tax attorneys out there who can inform you of how to go about your matter. You can arm yourself with that info and make decisions based on what you learn.

**littlekona** · 01-22-19, 09:45 PM

Originally posted by spicybulldog15

Does any of you guys know if there are any restrictions regards to M.G. Person-2-Person Payouts? Any experience in that perspective?

Think about all the money sent back and forth USA Mexico and back...thats easy peasy answer of questions if come about..but seriously I don’t know how as they don’t ask ss#

**TheMoneyShot** · 01-23-19, 12:03 PM

Originally posted by spicybulldog15

Does any of you guys know if there are any restrictions regards to M.G. Person-2-Person Payouts? Any experience in that perspective?

Some books still do this. It can be a pain in the a$$ sometimes... they have a set amount MAX. Also, a heavy fee. But your name could get blacklisted... I'm blacklisted with M G and W U. Happened many years ago....

**MrCavalier** · 01-23-19, 12:40 PM

Originally posted by TheMoneyShot

Some books still do this. It can be a pain in the a$$ sometimes... they have a set amount MAX. Also, a heavy fee. But your name could get blacklisted... I'm blacklisted with M G and W U. Happened many years ago....

That’s fcked up.. I thought I waa bad getting banned by WellsFargo