Deleted wagers at Pinnacle

Peep · 06-22-09, 03:34 PM

I have never cashed/not cashed a live bet there because of what happened AFTER a bet was accepted.

I don't think they would do this unless it was a "bad line" before something happened.

Jaug · 06-22-09, 03:41 PM

I bet USA +4 with Brazil leading 3-0, bet got accepted immedietly (which is odd for livebetting) and I was paid at FT.

Pareto · 06-22-09, 03:46 PM

It wasn't a bad line.

Pinnacles rules reads as follows:

Live betting wagers are accepted dependent on upcoming events in the Soccer match. Clients may or may not accept these terms by confirming or not confirming the wager with their password. All Live Betting Soccer wagers are subject to deletion from the account.

I have had a long correspondence with them where they state that they cancelled the wager because of the goal that came after the bet was accepted.

No doubt that they are acting according to their own rules. I can also understand that they need some form of protection from people viewing the game from the stadium ( without the delay of the television signal. Because when you bet with pinnacle, bets are accepted immediately instead of after a delay which is normal at other sites ). But their rules are very vague and can be used to their own advantage.

moonbeam · 06-22-09, 04:27 PM

Originally posted by Pareto

It wasn't a bad line.

Pinnacles rules reads as follows:

Live betting wagers are accepted dependent on upcoming events in the Soccer match. Clients may or may not accept these terms by confirming or not confirming the wager with their password. All Live Betting Soccer wagers are subject to deletion from the account.

I have had a long correspondence with them where they state that they cancelled the wager because of the goal that came after the bet was accepted.

No doubt that they are acting according to their own rules. I can also understand that they need some form of protection from people viewing the game from the stadium ( without the delay of the television signal. Because when you bet with pinnacle, bets are accepted immediately instead of after a delay which is normal at other sites ). But their rules are very vague and can be used to their own advantage.

Their live betting rules are really strange.

bleedblue · 06-22-09, 04:57 PM

I would never bet on something with rules like that. I can't believe pinnacle would have this policy. I realize they need to protect themselves, but seems like they have lots of opportunity to angle-shoot.

OP, is it possible that it was a bad-line in the sense that:
The ball was in a pretty neutral area and then as the bet was being made, Brazil ended up in an advantageous situation/threatening to score so that the line should have moved a few cents?

Pareto · 06-22-09, 05:07 PM

@bleedblue

I made the bet when Brazil had the ball in the middle of the field.

This was also Pinnacles conclusion. They reviewed my bet after my complaint, and found that I had made the bet when Brazil had started their attack, an attack that ended with a goal. And because of this the bet was cancelled.

moonbeam · 06-22-09, 05:12 PM

Originally posted by Pareto

@bleedblue

I made the bet when Brazil had the ball in the middle of the field.

This was also Pinnacles conclusion. They reviewed my bet after my complaint, and found that I had made the bet when Brazil had started their attack, an attack that ended with a goal. And because of this the bet was cancelled.

Pinnacle of course is a great book.

But their live-betting is horrible and like a D+ book.

Peep · 06-22-09, 05:31 PM

Can you post the e-mail stating that they believed you made the bet when the ball was in the middle of the field Pareto?

If they did that, I think you should file an SBR complaint.

Period.

Pareto · 06-22-09, 05:49 PM

Here is the email correspondance:

Dear Pinnaclesports,

I made a bet today of XXXX on O 1½ in the match between Italy and Brazil. 30 seconds after I made the bet Brazil scored.

Am I to understand that you have deleted this wager?

And if so, what are the rules for you to delete wagers.

Best Regards

Dear Sir,

Your ticket 145967760 on Brazil/Italy over 1.5 has been cancelled.

When clients make live?Soccer wagers, the match may be designated as in a "danger zone".? One example of a "danger zone" would be during a Penalty Kick.? If there is a "danger zone", a message is displayed to the client his wager will be accepted or deleted based on the current situation in the game.???If the client agrees, the wager is confirmed with the password as usual.?
?
If the wager is deleted, it?is added to the Review Account section, Deleted Live Wagers.? You may review these wagers using the same methods as pending or graded wagers.
?

You may review all of the Live Soccer Wagering rules on the site, however, the one pertaining to the accepting of wagers is copied here for your convenience.?Live betting wagers are accepted dependent on upcoming events in the Soccer match. Clients may or may not accept these terms by confirming or not confirming the wager with their password. All Live Betting Soccer wagers are subject to deletion from the account.

Kind regards,

Customer Service Department
Pinnacle Sports

Dear Pinnaclesports,

Your mail does not make any sense. Naturally it is impossible to make wagers when there is a penalty kick. Then you remove the wagering oppurtunities. This match was not in a socalled "danger zone". When I placed the bet, Brazil had the ball in the middle of the field. They just went fast down and scored after about 30 seconds.

I have been gambling with you for years and made many bets, and also many live bets, and have never experienced anything like this.

And I know I got the message that this was a runningballwager. I always get that message. But you cant just pick and choose when you want to cancel wagers.

And your rules are very vague. You are saying "dependent on upcoming events". How long is this? 5 seconds? 30 seconds? 20 minutes?

Regards

Dear Sir,

We regret you do not agree with the rules posted on our site for live wagering.

However, please note that if you received the runningballwager warning, it was cancelled according to the rules posted on our site.

Kind regards,

Customer Service Department
Pinnacle Sports

Dear Pinnaclesports,

It is not a matter of agreeing with them. I would just like them clarified.

"dependent on upcoming events" How long is this? By being this vague you can cancel any bet you like, which appereantly you do.

Regards

Dear Sir,

We have reviewed your wager again and it was indeed placed in a danger zone.

As you stated, you placed the wager when Brazil started their attack. A few seconds later, they scored a goal.

Please keep in mind that the duration of a danger zone varies depending on the particular event occurring in the game at that time.

Of all the Live wagers that were accepted on the Brazil vs Italy game, only two were canceled.

Kind regards,

Customer Service Department
Pinnacle Sports

Dear Pinnaclesports,

In your previous email you said that danger zones could be penalty kicks, which I completely agree on. Bets made when there is a penalty kick should naturally be cancelled, allthough I dont think it is possible to make a bet at such time. Now you are saying that making a bet when "a team is startin its attack", which can be started anywhere even on their own field constitutes a danger zone. By using this definition then anytime can be a danger zone.

Its completely unacceptable. And the fact that you have only cancelled two wagers, does not help. It just shows that you pick and choose which wagers you want to accept and which you will cancel.

Its not the kind of behaviour I would have expected from you.

Regards

Dear Client,

As previously informed: If there is a "danger zone", a message is displayed to the client his wager will be accepted or deleted based on the current situation in the game. If the client agrees, the wager is confirmed with the password as usual.

All Live Betting Soccer wagers are subject to deletion from the account. Wagers in Soccer live are cancelled based on our rules. With the confirmation of your wager with the account number and password, you have agreed with our rules.

We appreciate your understanding.

Kind regards,

Customer Service Department
Pinnacle Sports

Peep · 06-22-09, 07:10 PM

OK.

So they say your wager was placed when a warning was on the screen

"(However, please note that if you received the runningballwager warning, it was cancelled according to the rules posted on our site.) "

and the game was deemed to be "in a danger zone".

Do I have that right?

dwaechte · 06-22-09, 07:15 PM

While I do think a policy like that can lead to some sketchy decisions and judgement calls, I don't see anything particularly wrong with their decision.

Teddy_KGB · 06-22-09, 08:39 PM

This is how the asian bookies work. Sometimes they accept the bets immediatly, sometimes you have to wait 5-90 seconds until they accept your bet (or not, if somebody scores).

Pareto · 06-23-09, 03:50 AM

I recieved the runningballwager warning, which I think I always get when I am betting on live soccer.

No doubt that they followed their own rules. I have no problem with them cancelling my bet, if I can be totally sure that they would also have cancelled my bet if the "upcoming events" would have been favourable to Pinnacle. Which was why I would have liked to heard from someone who this had happened to.

But probably I have nothing to worry about. Its just my lack of faith in humanity, that leads me to question rules, which can be misused.

moonbeam · 06-23-09, 05:53 PM

Originally posted by Pareto

I recieved the runningballwager warning, which I think I always get when I am betting on live soccer.

No doubt that they followed their own rules. I have no problem with them cancelling my bet, if I can be totally sure that they would also have cancelled my bet if the "upcoming events" would have been favourable to Pinnacle. Which was why I would have liked to heard from someone who this had happened to.

But probably I have nothing to worry about. Its just my lack of faith in humanity, that leads me to question rules, which can be misused.

Dont be so generous with pinnacle. Things like this are really unfair

Santo · 06-23-09, 07:20 PM

They have good people, surely a technological solution that shows when the bet is accepted wouldn't be hard to implement.. Asian bookies do it.

andywend · 06-24-09, 02:59 AM

I have the feeling the wager in question was placed within 10 seconds of the goal being scored and NOT 30 seconds as the bettor is stating.

The problem as I see it is if someone bet the under 1 1/2 goals at EXACTLY the same time, I highly doubt Pinnacle would have canceled that wager.

Since the rules associated with soccer live betting are clearly stated, then its up to the individual bettor to decide whether or not they want to participate.

Art Vandeleigh · 06-24-09, 03:33 AM

Originally posted by andywend

The problem as I see it is if someone bet the under 1 1/2 goals at EXACTLY the same time, I highly doubt Pinnacle would have canceled that wager.

I enjoyed that e-mail sequence with Pinnacle's customer service, I mean I'm sorry the decision didn't go your way. My relationship with Pinnacle is young, but I too have experienced those sweetly worded, ever patient replies of theirs, roughly saying "Sorry Bub it ain't gonna happen for you no matter how many e-mails you send us" approach they have, lol. Nevertheless, glad you posted this.

Pareto · 06-24-09, 05:03 AM

@ Andywend

In realtime it could very well have been 10-15 seconds. I can only say approximately how long it took before I saw the goal. But I dont know the delay on the signal I recieved.

@ Art Vandeleigh

Yeah, especially that last "we appreciate your understanding", was a nice touch.