how should this wager be graded? (sbr sponsor book)

**bubba** · 12-04-17, 10:11 AM

1. FOOTBALL RULES

[*=left]Bets are considered official after 55 minutes of play. If 55 minutes of play is not completed, a bet on the team is treated as no action, and a parlay bet will be reduced accordingly. Bets on 1st, 2nd halves and all quarters will be considered action upon completion of the period in question. Bets on spread, money line, totals for the whole game and all bets on second halves always include overtime scoring. Bets for 4th quarter do not include overtime scoring. Game must be played on scheduled date and site.
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Additional Rules:

[*=left]Wagers on both full-game and second-half lines include overtime scoring.
[*=left]Bets on fourth-quarter lines DO NOT include overtime scoring.
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In all other teaser bets offered by BetOnline, a tie results in a loss for wagering purposes.
Proposition Rules (Player or Team)

[*=left]All players must play in the game for wagers to have action (Including Matchups).
[*=left]For season long props, players must be active (as per the official NFL/NCAAF Game Book) in the first game of the season for wager to have action.
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[*=left]Overtime Does Not Count on the Following Props:
- [*=left]Double result – Graded as per the results at half-time and end of regulation time.
  [*=left]Highest scoring half – Push rule applies.
  [*=left]Team with Highest Scoring Quarter - Push rule apply.
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  [*=left]Longest/Shortest Field Goal – Graded as per longest/shortest made unless specified otherwise.
  [*=left]Kickoff/Interception/Fumble returned for a Touchdown – Must be returned on the same play to win.
[*=left]For player head to head matchup up prop bets, or single player statistic’s based prop bets, all the quoted players must start or play in at least one play in the game for bets to have action.
[*=left]These rules apply to both NCAA and NFL football.
[*=left]For any instances not discussed here, Las Vegas wagering rules apply.

**bubba** · 12-04-17, 10:12 AM

nothing in rules discusses this situation, so its vegas rules. how would vegas handle this? both sides push or book keeps all sides$ on a 2 way line?

**Alfa1234** · 12-04-17, 10:46 AM

I'd say it should be a push. Have you mailed Betonline about it?

**bubba** · 12-04-17, 10:51 AM

Originally posted by Alfa1234

I'd say it should be a push. Have you mailed Betonline about it?

of course. I always contact book before posting something. so far they are sticking by their guns.

This is Sunny from Player Services:
I hope you are doing fine.
We have received your inquiry about the bets placed under ticket number: xxxxxxxx and xxxxxxxxx, where you selected Race to 20 Points - San Francisco 49ers +150 and Race to 20 Points - San Francisco 49ers +140 respectively.
Both wagers were correctly graded as a Loss, since none of the teams race to 20 points. The final score of the game was 49'ers 16 Bears 14. You can review the following link as a reference: http://www.espn.com/nfl/scoreboard

**BeatPete** · 12-04-17, 11:43 AM

Should be a push. Only way it would be a loss is if there was a 3 way line with a neither team option.

**RoyBacon** · 12-04-17, 12:27 PM

Push. The line is the giveaway.

**bubba** · 12-04-17, 02:18 PM

Does anyone have a contact at Betonline who is reasonable to work with? Still graded a loss and no help from customer service or sbr to this point.

**trytrytry** · 12-04-17, 02:24 PM

betonline slow to pay back another prop wager that did not lose,

just keeping it? how strange are they this entire 2017 has been a disaster for them.

You will get your push back keep asking and asking and asking.

**cyclingbettor** · 12-04-17, 03:26 PM

I would say be patient. (If you were strictly dealing with cs, then it would be entirely possible that you could be banging your head against this wall until the end of time). But, if you've gotten SBR involved, I would give the process a chance to do its thing. In my experience this sort of thing will take in the order of days, as opposed to hours or minutes, to get resolved. Here's hoping it goes faster than that, but that was my experience.

**TheMoneyShot** · 12-04-17, 03:31 PM

It's clearly a PUSH.

Who the hell is grading these wagers? Stevie Wonder?

**4nic8ing** · 12-04-17, 03:44 PM

As stated above this should be a PUSH since they didn't offer the 3rd option of Neither team reaching XX points.

**bubba** · 12-04-17, 03:46 PM

Originally posted by cyclingbettor

I would say be patient. (If you were strictly dealing with cs, then it would be entirely possible that you could be banging your head against this wall until the end of time). But, if you've gotten SBR involved, I would give the process a chance to do its thing. In my experience this sort of thing will take in the order of days, as opposed to hours or minutes, to get resolved. Here's hoping it goes faster than that, but that was my experience.

I filled a complaint when I started the thread. Haven't heard a word from sbr back. It's why I ask who to contact at betonline, as there cs always leaves me feeling like a waste of time. I emailed them last night (as their live chat is the worst and I could give them proper time to sort it out). They replied this morning with answer posted in this thread. I emailed them right back with why they are incorrect (b4 thread started). Haven't heard back. That's where I stand. Frustrated.

**rangerz2478** · 12-04-17, 04:37 PM

No surprise whatsoever to see bol grade it this way but clearly a push.

**rangerz2478** · 12-04-17, 04:44 PM

Originally posted by BeatPete

Should be a push. Only way it would be a loss is if there was a 3 way line with a neither team option.

This.

**bubba** · 12-04-17, 04:44 PM

on livechat now......

**bubba** · 12-04-17, 04:56 PM

d: may i please speak to a supervisor?
Calvin: Thank you for contacting Live Chat Service. How may I assist you today?
d: i had a wager graded wrong last night i have been attempting to get fixed
d: and id like to speak to a supervisor who could help
Calvin: Hi Dan, may i have your betonline account number and date of birth please.
Calvin: And the ticket number of the bet.
d:
d:
d:
Cavin: Thanks
Calvin: Working on it.
Calvin: Just a moment please.
d: ty
Calvin: You are welcome.
Calvin: Thanks for holding
Calvin: I verified the information with the line manager. and they explain that non of the teams you selected reach to race 20 points.
Calvin: On the 49ers and the Bears game.
d: right, i agree
d: its a 2 way line
d: its a push
d: clearly
d: team or or team b must win the bet
d: team or or team b
d: if not, its a push
d: its not, if neither happens, betonline steals all the money

Calvin: Why you keep saying is a push
d: push is a tie
d: the bet tied
d my team didnt score 20 points first
d: but neither did the other team
d: its a tie
d its why im asking to speak to a supervisor or a prop person who understands
d: i made a thread of this on sbr, its clear as day
Calvin: Just a moment
d: "I'd say it should be a push. Have you mailed Betonline about it?"
d: "Should be a push. Only way it would be a loss is if there was a 3 way line with a neither team option."
d: "Push. The line is the giveaway."
Calvin: .
d: "betonline slow to pay back another prop wager that did not lose, just keeping it? how strange are they this entire 2017 has been a disaster for them. You will get your push back keep asking and asking and asking."
Calvin: .
d: "It's clearly a PUSH. Who the hell is grading these wagers? Stevie Wonder?"
d: "As stated above this should be a PUSH since they didn't offer the 3rd option of Neither team reaching XX points."
Calvin: .
d: "No surprise whatsoever to see bol grade it this way but clearly a push."
Calvin: .
Calvin: Already send it to get reviewed again with all the information you provided.
d: ok, can i wait here?
d: or can i talk to whoever is in charge?
Calvin: You don't need to wait here.
Calvin: Already was addressed with the manager,
d: id rather. i been stressing over this mistake for almost 24 hours now. id really like to get it resolved
Calvin: And he is taking care of it.
d: can i speak with the manager?
Calvin: Unfortunately you cannot, as i mention before, he is taking care of it, , just need to wait until this is solved.
d: please have me emailed with the update
Calvin: You will receive it.

**HedgeHog** · 12-04-17, 05:21 PM

Obvious push. How does BOL not get this time and time again?

**cyclingbettor** · 12-04-17, 05:32 PM

Originally posted by bubba

That's where I stand. Frustrated.

I hear ya. For your reference, in looking back through an old thread, it was about 2 days after I submitted my complaint before a response from SBR was posted, and another couple of days after that before the grading was changed. (It's possible that there were some emails directly to me during this time, I can't remember). This was across late December to early January, so things were probably moving more slowly than normal during that time period, but the wheels of justice seem to move pretty slowly at the best of times. Sometimes you gotta just sit back and give things time to happen. I see that you have taken matters into your own hands, so here's hoping you can get it fixed faster than that.

**bubba** · 12-04-17, 05:45 PM

Originally posted by cyclingbettor

I hear ya. For your reference, in looking back through an old thread, it was about 2 days after I submitted my complaint before a response from SBR was posted, and another couple of days after that before the grading was changed. (It's possible that there were some emails directly to me during this time, I can't remember). This was across late December to early January, so things were probably moving more slowly than normal during that time period, but the wheels of justice seem to move pretty slowly at the best of times. Sometimes you gotta just sit back and give things time to happen. I see that you have taken matters into your own hands, so here's hoping you can get it fixed faster than that.

If sbr had responded to my complaint this morning and said they are working on it, i would step back. They havent answered which is fine, but i cant just sit back. its a simple issue with a simple solution. But this is stressing me to no end. Hate the uncertainty and hate dealing with the slowness (and stubbornness) of whatever departments i am dealing with.

**scottgodson1985** · 12-04-17, 05:51 PM

i would have bet this too,

**bubba** · 12-04-17, 06:36 PM

They refuse to change the grading. i am feeling robbed.

"We hope this email finds you well.
Please be informed the wagers placed were betting on either team Race to 20 points. This means that you are betting on which team will score 20 points before the other team, however since the scores were 14 and 16 respectively, neither teams scored 20 points."

**cyclingbettor** · 12-04-17, 06:50 PM

Like I said, try to give SBR a chance to at least respond to your request. I realize it may seem like things are moving at a snail's pace, but I'm pretty sure they will at least respond to you with something, and you can proceed from there.

**bubba** · 12-04-17, 06:53 PM

Originally posted by cyclingbettor

Like I said, try to give SBR a chance to at least respond to your request. I realize it may seem like things are moving at a snail's pace, but I'm pretty sure they will at least respond to you with something, and you can proceed from there.

1- sbr are you out there? can you at least acnowledge you have recieved my complaint?
2- what if i didnt have sbr? then betonline would just rob me??? doesnt sound like a top rated book to me.

**Optional** · 12-04-17, 06:53 PM

Originally posted by bubba

They refuse to change the grading. i am feeling robbed.

"We hope this email finds you well.
Please be informed the wagers placed were betting on either team Race to 20 points. This means that you are betting on which team will score 20 points before the other team, however since the scores were 14 and 16 respectively, neither teams scored 20 points."

Reply to the confirmation email you should have received and ask for an update.

It will be fixed once betpoints it out to the right manager.

**bubba** · 12-04-17, 07:04 PM

Originally posted by Optional

Reply to the confirmation email you should have received and ask for an update.

It will be fixed once betpoints it out to the right manager.

Thanks optional, just replied to toe email from this morning

**Optional** · 12-04-17, 07:07 PM

Originally posted by bubba

Thanks optional, just replied to toe email from this morning

I messaged admin as well but office is closed for tonight.

It's been taking a couple of days to get complaints allocated and answered of recent.

I typed "once SBR - points it out" above btw... not 'betpoints'.

**rangerz2478** · 12-04-17, 07:10 PM

Originally posted by bubba

1- sbr are you out there? can you at least acnowledge you have recieved my complaint?
2- what if i didnt have sbr? then betonline would just rob me??? doesnt sound like a top rated book to me.

You've seen what it is like to communicate with their customer service about an issue you are clearly in the right about. You get the same generic answer that doesn't even address the issue.

So the short answer to your actual question is...

Yes.

**bubba** · 12-04-17, 07:15 PM

Originally posted by Optional

I messaged admin as well but office is closed for tonight.

It's been taking a couple of days to get complaints allocated and answered of recent.

I typed "once SBR - points it out" above btw... not 'betpoints'.

i didnt know what exactly you meant to type, but i figured it was something along those lines.

**bubba** · 12-04-17, 07:52 PM

the most frustrating part to me- the ticket makes it crystal clear. it has a line where they list the opponent of my wager at the end. "Opponent:NFL Game Props - Race to 20 Points - Chicago Bears 0 -145". I love when the opponent is listed. 5dimes does this for almost every wager.

2nd most frustrating part- they originally graded the wager correctly, then changed it to a loss a few hours later.

3rd (actually 1st) most frustrating part- dealing with the CS. i thank sbr in advance for helping me with this.

**Optional** · 12-04-17, 08:01 PM

Originally posted by bubba

the most frustrating part to me- the ticket makes it crystal clear. it has a line where they list the opponent of my wager at the end. "Opponent:NFL Game Props - Race to 20 Points - Chicago Bears 0 -145". I love when the opponent is listed. 5dimes does this for almost every wager.

2nd most frustrating part- they originally graded the wager correctly, then changed it to a loss a few hours later.

3rd (actually 1st) most frustrating part- dealing with the CS. i thank sbr in advance for helping me with this.

It's obvious to us as we are bettors. Lots of offshore CS staff are not bettors. Even the people doing the grading.

I can see how a 'strange' offering like that was mis-graded to start with.

The CS person really should have escalated the query to a real manager though. I'm guessing they just asked a shift supervisor in the call center or something like that to get the response you were given.

**bubba** · 12-04-17, 08:13 PM

Originally posted by Optional

It's obvious to us as we are bettors. Lots of offshore CS staff are not bettors. Even the people doing the grading.

I can see how a 'strange' offering like that was mis-graded to start with.

The CS person really should have escalated the query to a real manager though. I'm guessing they just asked a shift supervisor in the call center or something like that to get the response you were given.

I dont mind a misgrade here and there. it happens. but to put the "victim" through hoops is not right. helpess feeling. Its how the book reacts to their mistake (or they dont know its a mistake, then call it a potential mistake) is whats important.

**Optional** · 12-04-17, 08:14 PM

Originally posted by bubba

I dont mind a misgrade here and there. it happens. but to put the "victim" through hoops is not right. helpess feeling. Its how the book reacts to their mistake (or they dont know its a mistake, then call it a potential mistake) is whats important.

Yeah it sounds like poor customer service. You should have been able to fix this one without needing SBR for sure.

**HedgeHog** · 12-04-17, 08:18 PM

Originally posted by Optional

It's obvious to us as we are bettors. Lots of offshore CS staff are not bettors. Even the people doing the grading.

I can see how a 'strange' offering like that was mis-graded to start with.

The CS person really should have escalated the query to a real manager though. I'm guessing they just asked a shift supervisor in the call center or something like that to get the response you were given.

It's not that strange at all. Several Books offer first to score 10 or 20 points points for football or baskets. Only one constantly grades it wrong when neither reaches the number. No question that Bubba will get his money back, but will they correctly grade it right for everyone else? Doubt it.

**bubba** · 12-04-17, 08:25 PM

Pittsburgh Steelers @ Cincinnati Bengals - Race to 10 Points
Rot.	Selection	Odds
10120	Pittsburgh Steelers		-165
10121	Cincinnati Bengals		+145
Pittsburgh Steelers @ Cincinnati Bengals - Race to 20 Points
Rot.	Selection	Odds
10122	Pittsburgh Steelers		-200
10123	Cincinnati Bengals		+170

Philadelphia Eagles @ Seattle Seahawks - Race to 10 Points
Rot.	Selection	Odds
10051	Philadelphia Eagles		-145
10052	Seattle Seahawks		+125
Philadelphia Eagles @ Seattle Seahawks - Race to 20 Points
Rot.	Selection	Odds
10053	Philadelphia Eagles		-170
10054	Seattle Seahawks		+150