bonus gaming and "non recreational" betting

**temple2010** · 10-20-17, 12:08 AM

Been doing it for years and never a problem.

**Alfa1234** · 10-20-17, 02:16 AM

Originally posted by searanchdude

Am wondering a couple of things after betting a couple of months:

1) Most books in their terms and condition forbid betting both sides of a bet to satisfy bonus turnover. But is it against the rules (if they can ever find out) to bet one side in one book and another side of same bet in another book, thereby satisfying rollover requirements without taking a risk. Is this considered "not recreational" betting? Have users been found out, blocked, or had assets seized for doing this?

2) Along the same lines, there seem some books that are related to each other. Do they share bets of their users to address the possibility of #1. For example, BetOnline seems to be the same as sportsbetting. BetDSI always has the exact same odds as bookmakers. Do the management staff of these books compare bets to find patters of people doing "bonus arbitrage" as described in #1?

Re n 2: considering the fact you'll be losing 10% every time you hedge your bet in a bookmaker with the same odds...I don't see an upside to that as you'll lose your balance long before meeting the rollover. If you do it at a book from a different family and check the odds, you'll lose way less and there is not problem of data sharing.

**Optional** · 10-20-17, 04:34 AM

Originally posted by searanchdude

Am wondering a couple of things after betting a couple of months:

1) Most books in their terms and condition forbid betting both sides of a bet to satisfy bonus turnover. But is it against the rules (if they can ever find out) to bet one side in one book and another side of same bet in another book, thereby satisfying rollover requirements without taking a risk. Is this considered "not recreational" betting? Have users been found out, blocked, or had assets seized for doing this?

2) Along the same lines, there seem some books that are related to each other. Do they share bets of their users to address the possibility of #1. For example, BetOnline seems to be the same as sportsbetting. BetDSI always has the exact same odds as bookmakers. Do the management staff of these books compare bets to find patters of people doing "bonus arbitrage" as described in #1?

They can't impose rules about what you do with your money at other books.

Books using the same infrastructure probably can share player info about bets but i've not heard of anyone being penalized for betting the other side at associated books.

Betting the other side isn't usually considered professional play btw. Not even sure they need to ban it at their own book really. A 10 x rollover with a 10% vig in the line will leave you with 38% after 10 bets on both sides.

You'll do better than that flipping coins to make picks usually.

**Crusherrr** · 10-20-17, 07:16 AM

I've been doing in since I started betting sports. For example. Deposit $1k on one site for 100% bonus. Deposit $1k at different site for 100% bonus. Bet $1k+$1kFP on one site and $1k+$1kFP on a different site. One bet wins. One bet loses. You now have about $2,850 on one site and $0 on the other. $850 profit and now you only have one rollover instead of two. Take multiple bonuses from different sites and keep doing it. I've never had any trouble doing this and clear rollovers fast. Only problem I've run into but not had to face any consequences yet is that on one site I'm probably up close to $30,000 where other sites I've lost.

If youre smart there are many promotions like YW 25% cash back, Bovada 10% cash back daily, etc. During baseball season I'm able to find bets most nights that are only 1 or 2 cents off when betting both sides. I've also hit middles many times and won both bets for thousands of dollars nearly risk free. It's time consuming and I've dealt with many lower rated books but thanks to bitcoin many have been great at paying.

**temple2010** · 10-20-17, 11:15 AM

Originally posted by Crusherrr

I've been doing in since I started betting sports. For example. Deposit $1k on one site for 100% bonus. Deposit $1k at different site for 100% bonus. Bet $1k+$1kFP on one site and $1k+$1kFP on a different site. One bet wins. One bet loses. You now have about $2,850 on one site and $0 on the other. $850 profit and now you only have one rollover instead of two. Take multiple bonuses from different sites and keep doing it. I've never had any trouble doing this and clear rollovers fast. Only problem I've run into but not had to face any consequences yet is that on one site I'm probably up close to $30,000 where other sites I've lost.

If youre smart there are many promotions like YW 25% cash back, Bovada 10% cash back daily, etc. During baseball season I'm able to find bets most nights that are only 1 or 2 cents off when betting both sides. I've also hit middles many times and won both bets for thousands of dollars nearly risk free. It's time consuming and I've dealt with many lower rated books but thanks to bitcoin many have been great at paying.

Perfect example!

**searanchdude** · 10-20-17, 12:36 PM

Thanks for the feedback everyone... seemed too good to be true so I thought there must be a problem.

A couple of additional points:

- Some books like heritage offer reduced juice of 5%, so that can make rollover easier
- I always look for odds differences to hit both bets

It is indeed time consuming, but definitely seems to make money. Since numerous people do it, I'm guessing most people are not disciplined to take the time to do it so the books make more money with these bonuses than they lose from people gaming them.

**Crusherrr** · 10-20-17, 01:20 PM

Originally posted by searanchdude

Thanks for the feedback everyone... seemed too good to be true so I thought there must be a problem.

A couple of additional points:

- Some books like heritage offer reduced juice of 5%, so that can make rollover easier
- I always look for odds differences to hit both bets

It is indeed time consuming, but definitely seems to make money. Since numerous people do it, I'm guessing most people are not disciplined to take the time to do it so the books make more money with these bonuses than they lose from people gaming them.

Most people don't care or don't have the money to do it. I've had situations where I've had $15k cash sitting on Sportsbook.ag(D rated book) I've probably been given over $50k in bonuses alone this year and baseball season is the best to do this because you can easily find lines only 1 or 2c off from eachother. Some days you may make $10-$20 on $1k bet because you find lines that are profitable regardless of the side that wins.

Just be careful. It's not too good to be true but be smart about it and try to keep deposit amounts/bet sizes similar so it doesn't look so strange. It helps if you bet games without bonus arbing too.

Send me a message on here searanchdude

**5918mike** · 10-20-17, 01:28 PM

I haven't had a problem with it yet. I have what I call a couple cash out books that I use without bonuses and then use the bonus books to collect and distribute to my cashout books without worrying about meeting rollover and withdraw requirements. As far as they are concerned I deposit and lose, so they continue to give very good bonuses. It not as easy as betting both sides without risk but you can combine methods with live betting hedges and chases to cover the vig losses but you do run the risk of money moving the wrong way, then it can be a grind to get it back but with the bonus cushion you won't lose anything significant except time if done correctly.

**bonzaii** · 10-20-17, 01:47 PM

This is one of the reasons I think books were hesitant at first to allow bitcoin as a deposit/withdrawl option. It makes it easier to bonus whore across multiple sites and get your money on and off books quickly using bitcoin.

**searanchdude** · 10-20-17, 07:04 PM

Hey Crusherr, evidently I don't have enough forum points yet to send you a DM msg, but thanks for the info.

I too use sportsbook.ag because their bonuses are too lenient to ignore, though their D rating gives me great pause. Ages ago when I only bet occasionally, it took me 4 months to get a few hundred out because of their "payment processor" problems. Since bitcoin though, they've always paid.

**searanchdude** · 10-20-17, 07:12 PM

Originally posted by 5918mike

I haven't had a problem with it yet. I have what I call a couple cash out books that I use without bonuses and then use the bonus books to collect and distribute to my cashout books without worrying about meeting rollover and withdraw requirements. As far as they are concerned I deposit and lose, so they continue to give very good bonuses. It not as easy as betting both sides without risk but you can combine methods with live betting hedges and chases to cover the vig losses but you do run the risk of money moving the wrong way, then it can be a grind to get it back but with the bonus cushion you won't lose anything significant except time if done correctly.

Yeah, money moving the wrong way is something to watch out for. For books like betdsi and bookmaker, I make sure my balances can support the maximum balance for a given bonus if money always goes toward the rollover account. That keeps those bonuses smaller. For more lenient bonus policies like youwager and sportsbook, I usually get max bonus. However, as discussed in another thread, youwager has tiny withdrawal limits which makes it time consuming to withdraw large balances.

Now I have to do some research on "live betting hedges and chases to cover" so I can start doing those things too :-). Any info you can provide on those would be helpful.

**5918mike** · 10-21-17, 12:04 PM

Use a reduced juice book as well, every little bit helps.

**dealer wins** · 10-22-17, 03:02 AM

In the UK there is no such thing as "non recreational" betting. No matter if you place one bet a week or 1000, the law and HMRC dont regard it as an occupation for income purposes.

Interesting read here