Best Sportsbook No One's Heard Of?

[luctens]

"Pinnacle have the sharpest odds compilers and bettors in the business so they consistently have the lowest possible margins that are long term viable so a company won't be able to succeed in consistently offering better margins than Pinnacle."

...said every single company who once led an industry. I have zero interest in what some guy named 'luctens' thinks of the future of bookmaking. If you have relevant info. to share (like I did), please do so. If you are here merely to state an opinion (dude), there is no need to say the same thing over and over again. Really, there isn't.

Well you must have had some interest in what I said as you replied questioning it, and as you have provided nothing of any substance to support your argument, I'll assume you accept what I've said as being accurate.

It is extremely relevant to point out that a sportsbook is trying to do what no bookmaker has ever successfully done in history, which is consistently beat Pinnacle's margins. So there is an obvious big risk to players' funds for any punter playing at a site that is trying to achieve something no sportsbook has ever achieved before.

[evo34]

"Pinnacle have the sharpest odds compilers and bettors in the business so they consistently have the lowest possible margins that are long term viable so a company won't be able to succeed in consistently offering better margins than Pinnacle."

...said every single company who once led an industry. I have zero interest in what some guy named 'luctens' thinks of the future of bookmaking. If you have relevant info. to share (like I did), please do so. If you are here merely to state an opinion (dude), there is no need to say the same thing over and over again. Really, there isn't.

[luctens]

So no one will ever have tighter markets than Pinnacle and survive? There is such a thing as market depth.

BTW, they (more likely, their external market makers) are not precisely copying Pinnacle lines when it is close to game time. But you would already know that had you bothered to take a look for yourself.

Pinnacle have the sharpest odds compilers and bettors in the business so they consistently have the lowest possible margins that are long term viable so a company won't be able to succeed in consistently offering better margins than Pinnacle.

Not one sportsbook past or present has succeeded on a long term basis by consistently offering better margins than Pinnacle. Either sportsbooks have been clever enough to not even go there, or if any have tried they have failed so that tells you all you need to know.

[evo34]

If they're even better margins than Pinnacle then that's even worse. Pinnacle's whole business is about attracting the serious bettors and to do that, they offer margins as low as they possibly can in order to attract that custom but still to do so on a viable, long term basis where they can still make good money even at a very low profit margin.

Therefore, if I ever see a bookmaker offering better margins than Pinnacle, I am extremely sceptical as if it was long term viable to offer lower margins on a particular sport or league, then I would expect Pinnacle to have already sharpened their lines.

Put it this way, if it was really viable on a long term basis for Fairlay to copy Pinnacle's lines but to even decrease the juice, then I'm sure Pinnacle would already be offering this reduced margin themselves but the fact they aren't doing this is a massive indicator that they don't believe that offering any lower margin than they currently do is viable, and I would much rather trust Pinnacle's view on odds compiling than Fairlay.

If I ever see a brand new outfit that have their own odds compilers and a completely fresh operation whilst offering better margins than Pinnacle because their odds compilers feel like they have seen some angles than Pinnacle hasn't, then I will give them the time of day.

But that's not the case here. This is just a company that is copying Pinnacle's odds and even lowering Pinnacle's juice in some instances, and that will never work on a long term basis.

So no one will ever have tighter markets than Pinnacle and survive? There is such a thing as market depth.

BTW, they (more likely, their external market makers) are not precisely copying Pinnacle lines when it is close to game time. But you would already know that had you bothered to take a look for yourself.

[luctens]

Fairlay is much tighter than Pinnacle close to game time. LAD/Ari tonight:

https://i.gyazo.com/ba04f8c8849a459253cab437d12f7a7f.png

If they're even better margins than Pinnacle then that's even worse. Pinnacle's whole business is about attracting the serious bettors and to do that, they offer margins as low as they possibly can in order to attract that custom but still to do so on a viable, long term basis where they can still make good money even at a very low profit margin.

Therefore, if I ever see a bookmaker offering better margins than Pinnacle, I am extremely sceptical as if it was long term viable to offer lower margins on a particular sport or league, then I would expect Pinnacle to have already sharpened their lines.

Put it this way, if it was really viable on a long term basis for Fairlay to copy Pinnacle's lines but to even decrease the juice, then I'm sure Pinnacle would already be offering this reduced margin themselves but the fact they aren't doing this is a massive indicator that they don't believe that offering any lower margin than they currently do is viable, and I would much rather trust Pinnacle's view on odds compiling than Fairlay.

If I ever see a brand new outfit that have their own odds compilers and a completely fresh operation whilst offering better margins than Pinnacle because their odds compilers feel like they have seen some angles than Pinnacle hasn't, then I will give them the time of day.

But that's not the case here. This is just a company that is copying Pinnacle's odds and even lowering Pinnacle's juice in some instances, and that will never work on a long term basis.

[evo34]

Fairlay is much tighter than Pinnacle close to game time. LAD/Ari tonight:

https://i.gyazo.com/ba04f8c8849a459253cab437d12f7a7f.png

[barnstorm]

I guess you're only saying this because you're American and you have no choice otherwise I'm sure you'd use Pinnacle. That business model if you are right of them copying Pinnacle's lines is doomed to fail.

Pinnacle can only make a go of it at the odds they offer because they have massive volume, the sharpest players and the sharpest odds compilers. In most situations if Fairlay are simply copying Pinnacle then they may have taken $500 on that selection whilst Pinnacle may have taken $25,000 in order to change the line but Fairlay will still move the line if Pinnacle does. Fairlay won't have anywhere near the volume and the type of players to balance their book accordingly offering Pinnacle's odds. If it was that easy why don't you think everybody is opening up a sportsbook, hooking their site to Pinnacle's odds and watching the money come in? And that doesn't even take into account they are subject to Bitcoin volatilities as well.

The other Bitcoin sportsbooks I've heard of seem to pretty much all have similar lines to Pinnacle but increase the juice which would give them some breathing room. Simply copying Pinnacle's lines is downright crazy. This "business model" that a 4 year old could have thought up will sooner or later go up in flames.

I hear you and yes I am American, but Fairlay has been able to continue to post the exact same odds as Pinnacle. Granted, they have no where near the volume, but maybe they can squeeze out a profit and hope word gets around. I'm just happy to have access to Pinnacle odds. And yes, you are right, there are other Bitcoin books that are close to Pinnacle, but give themselves a few extra points on each side. And yes, Bitcoin ups and downs can really affect your bottom line. It has been a nice rise from $350 to $660 the last couple of months. But that could be reversed. Or go higher.

[luctens]

Fairlay.com has odds EXACTLY the same as Pinnacle. They change with Pinnacle in a matter of seconds! Who needs Pinnacle when you can have Fairlay.com!

I guess you're only saying this because you're American and you have no choice otherwise I'm sure you'd use Pinnacle. That business model if you are right of them copying Pinnacle's lines is doomed to fail.

Pinnacle can only make a go of it at the odds they offer because they have massive volume, the sharpest players and the sharpest odds compilers. In most situations if Fairlay are simply copying Pinnacle then they may have taken $500 on that selection whilst Pinnacle may have taken $25,000 in order to change the line but Fairlay will still move the line if Pinnacle does. Fairlay won't have anywhere near the volume and the type of players to balance their book accordingly offering Pinnacle's odds. If it was that easy why don't you think everybody is opening up a sportsbook, hooking their site to Pinnacle's odds and watching the money come in? And that doesn't even take into account they are subject to Bitcoin volatilities as well.

The other Bitcoin sportsbooks I've heard of seem to pretty much all have similar lines to Pinnacle but increase the juice which would give them some breathing room. Simply copying Pinnacle's lines is downright crazy. This "business model" that a 4 year old could have thought up will sooner or later go up in flames.

[Jliao4]

I like to use a small indie book that my friend told me about, i think its called 365bet or bet365 not sure. Check it out if you want.

[barnstorm]

Have not heard of BetBaller. Does not look like they take Americans.

I guess that means they ask for ID?

Yes, they take Americans. I don't think I provided any ID when I signed up. I just Chatted with them and they said Americans are okay and just use Bitcoin.

[Optional]

Have not heard of BetBaller. Does not look like they take Americans.

I guess that means they ask for ID?

[barnstorm]

BetPhoenix and Skybook are the same and they have that 250% free play bonus with an 18x rollover. Pretty good odds on major sports but not enough tennis and other minor offerings for my liking.

BetBaller has a 100% cash bonus but you can only bet on small favs and dogs to meet the rollover.

[barnstorm]

I did the GT Bets 100% cash bonus. It's the best deal. It took a while and their odds aren't the best (or worst) and they dragged out the payout process a bit, but I got it.

[barnstorm]

I'm going for the Bitcoin sportsbooks. Fairlay.com has odds EXACTLY the same as Pinnacle. They change with Pinnacle in a matter of seconds! Who needs Pinnacle when you can have Fairlay.com!

BetBaller.com and NitrogenSports.eu are close behind.

GL!

[Bill Dozer]

There is very little cost to running a branded website these days. No employees, hardware, facilities needed. Platform allow bookies to sub-out their business. Sometimes its on pay per customer deal. A good book won't let another guy run post-up under his post up and not stand for the money. But there are services that only offer to track plays and host the book's website.

[lilpete]

how do these no name books stay in business?? they literally must have 3 customers some of them. is it a front for money laundering or drugs or something?

[ronald]

Yea that is quite a while but up to you. GT has come along way since their first year online and C rating.

I appreciate the offer. Tks.

[Bill Dozer]

No need.

I filed a complaint with SBR in 2012 regarding this matter.

SBR LOU's reply to me was: "This is unfortunate, but you really need to make sure to call a rep to confirm the offer before making the deposit."

As I explained in my earlier post and as I explained to LOU, I did call the rep prior to depositing.

Yea that is quite a while but up to you. GT has come along way since their first year online and C rating.

[ronald]

PM me your acct # so we can ask GT about it? Thanks

No need.

I filed a complaint with SBR in 2012 regarding this matter.

SBR LOU's reply to me was: "This is unfortunate, but you really need to make sure to call a rep to confirm the offer before making the deposit."

As I explained in my earlier post and as I explained to LOU, I did call the rep prior to depositing.

[Bill Dozer]

ATTN: DOZER

Here is what happened at GTBets:

1. Get cold call from GTBets. Offers bonus.
2. Receive terms of bonus.
3. Agree to terms.
4. Send deposit.
5. Contact LiveChat for bonus to be added.
6. Am told I am not eligible for bonus.
7. I reference the fact that I was cold called and offered bonus.
8. Person on LiveChat said that the offer was made by mistake and that no bonus will be given.
9. Realizing I'm not going to win the argument, I ask them to send me my money back without charging me WD fees.
10. They say that they cannot send it back unless I roll it over once. Furthermore, they say they cannot waive fees.
11. I attempt to roll over the funds. I make a few bets and have my limits slashed. Takes me much longer to roll over funds as a result.
12. Finally finish rollover, request funds, pay rape WD fees, get paid.

THE END

Here is my experience with BetRoyal:

1. Have had account there for over 10 yrs.
2. Have always been paid on time.

THE END

PM me your acct # so we can ask GT about it? Thanks

[ronald]

ATTN: DOZER

Here is what happened at GTBets:

1. Get cold call from GTBets. Offers bonus.
2. Receive terms of bonus.
3. Agree to terms.
4. Send deposit.
5. Contact LiveChat for bonus to be added.
6. Am told I am not eligible for bonus.
7. I reference the fact that I was cold called and offered bonus.
8. Person on LiveChat said that the offer was made by mistake and that no bonus will be given.
9. Realizing I'm not going to win the argument, I ask them to send me my money back without charging me WD fees.
10. They say that they cannot send it back unless I roll it over once. Furthermore, they say they cannot waive fees.
11. I attempt to roll over the funds. I make a few bets and have my limits slashed. Takes me much longer to roll over funds as a result.
12. Finally finish rollover, request funds, pay rape WD fees, get paid.

THE END

Here is my experience with BetRoyal:

1. Have had account there for over 10 yrs.
2. Have always been paid on time.

THE END

[Bill Dozer]

Outright theft like Betislands? Or Legends where I got stuck with a ridiculous RO. You made money though and that's all that matters, to this day no one here has ever manned up and taken responsibility for BI. HR has been around for 3 years not a single outstanding payout complaint and they aren't an A, wonder why? Maybe bc you and the scumbags that work here aren't getting paid by them

BI is a good reminder BigBlueNYG. Anytime you talk about books that dont have 10 year old roots we should look at the last one to fall. Actually, BI was in a lot of threads like this one. Posters thought they were undervalued. Obviously, B was too high. The difference between books that closed in midst of legal issues and SBG and Royal is they just didnt want to pay winners over a certain amount and still take bets today.

[BigBlueNYG]

Outright theft like Betislands? Or Legends where I got stuck with a ridiculous RO. You made money though and that's all that matters, to this day no one here has ever manned up and taken responsibility for BI. HR has been around for 3 years not a single outstanding payout complaint and they aren't an A, wonder why? Maybe bc you and the scumbags that work here aren't getting paid by them

[Bill Dozer]

GTBets sucks. Bait and switch shop. Avoid.

Ronald, Can you tell us what happened? A bonus offer you were not eligible
for?

I used to use Betroyal 12 years ago. I see that they have a D- rating on SBR. I wonder if they deserve this?

BetRoyal players have been quiet because they and sister site SBG stopped marketing. Their marketing depts actually refer new players to other books now for the referral. Royal stiffed a lot of players before they were sold to SBG. SBG stiffed a lot of players after. Flat out theft really.

http://www.sportsbookreview.com/forum/players-talk/41677-outright-theft-sbg-royal-confirmed-sbr-new-victims-appearing-daily.html

[Foosball Champ]

I used to use betroyal 12 years ago. I see that they have a D- rating on SBR. I wonder if they deserve this?

[ronald]

betroyal should add bitcoin

Agreed.

[mg63]

Betroyal has been around for a long time and offers good sign up bonuses, nice reloads, and free contests. Very underrated book.

betroyal should add bitcoin

[jjgold]

Is intertops considered a small book?

[ronald]

Looks like a set up to me, but I'll play along. Best of the bonus books are BetMania and GTBets.

GTBets sucks. Bait and switch shop. Avoid.

[ronald]

im looking for a nice bonus and a book that will pay of course. i like the big boys heritage, 5d, etc, but i like to change it up sometimes with a change of scenery if you will. 200 % bonus would be ideal. Rollover dont bother me. suggestions?

HrWager has a nice bonus but they are quick to boot and limit winners.

Betroyal has been around for a long time and offers good sign up bonuses, nice reloads, and free contests. Very underrated book.

[littlekona]

I've been very happy with looselines as a supplemental book to heritage and nitrogen..the CS is great plus they have practically instant btc withdrawals...I like there rebate program on horse wagers plus they offer many smaller tracks plus dogs...A book imo

[InsiderHer]

I almost made a massive deposit to WSEX back in the day LOL. Did they ever pay their players?

Yeah, back in the day they did

[Buffalo Nickle]

Looks like a set up to me, but I'll play along. Best of the bonus books are BetMania and GTBets.

[Mikeyanks23]

Hrwager

[lilpete]

americasbookie gave a me a no deposit freeplay and i won $250 and they paid me same day **