Opinions on books that offer AFL betting

[allin1]

If that's the real reason then yes, it's tough to argue that they are wrong regarding in-play betting...

but...

If they would be genuinely concerned about gambling problems, wouldn't they make it all illegal? including casinos? Or are these operations important for the economy?

[jjgold]

I have no idea why live betting would create gambling problems

I have access to live betting and don't even use it a lot

[Optional]

If that's the real reason then yes, it's tough to argue that they are wrong regarding in-play betting...

but...

If they would be genuinely concerned about gambling problems, wouldn't they make it all illegal? including casinos? Or are these operations important for the economy?

Because most people are not against all gambling. An anti-gambling MP won a key seat and has more influence than he should is probably the simplest explanation.

And yes State governments are addicted to the revenue but you have to remember this is a very mature regulated gambling market. Govt has already maxed out what they can sell as acceptable to the community. If you live in a city here, even in the suburbs, you probably have several places you can gamble within walking distance of home.

The ones making the most money know that they only make as much as they do because the community accepts it here. They have worked out how to max out revenue whilst not killing the goose that lays the golden eggs by looking more greedy for more than caring about problem gamblers. The ban on internet live play is great PR on that level.

[tommygun]

Live betting doesnt create gambling problems as you can still pick up the phone and put a bet on.
If the government and Xenophon got their heads out of their asses they would realise live betting at a place like an exchange (betfair,smarkets,Betdaq) would actually benefit people in reducing losses and locking in profits (trading), but until they change their ancient views this will not happen.

[Hareeba!]

Live betting doesnt create gambling problems as you can still pick up the phone and put a bet on.
If the government and Xenophon got their heads out of their asses they would realise live betting at a place like an exchange (betfair,smarkets,Betdaq) would actually benefit people in reducing losses and locking in profits (trading), but until they change their ancient views this will not happen.

Live online betting is so much more convenient and those that way inclined would bet more. I am a perfect example.
However wagering isn't a significant contributor to "problem gambling". It's the dumb lotteries, pokies and casino players who make up most of the "problem gambling" community.
Sports betting is too sophisticated for them.
Most politicians and social workers know so little about gambling that they are unable to distinguish between wagering and gaming to know this.

[antonyp22]

Guys, news out that Pinnacle is looking at starting "Pinnacle Australia" with a greater emphasis on Australian sports with higher limits!

[tommygun]

Live online betting is so much more convenient and those that way inclined would bet more. I am a perfect example.
However wagering isn't a significant contributor to "problem gambling". It's the dumb lotteries, pokies and casino players who make up most of the "problem gambling" community.
Sports betting is too sophisticated for them.
Most politicians and social workers know so little about gambling that they are unable to distinguish between wagering and gaming to know this.

Exactly.
And back to my point if they just sat in a meeting with betfair and saw the benefits etc of trading they would change their opinions.

[tommygun]

Guys, news out that Pinnacle is looking at starting "Pinnacle Australia" with a greater emphasis on Australian sports with higher limits!

That is not good news.
Goodbye live betting (can do at pinnacle from aus) and casino option......

[antonyp22]

That is not good news.
Goodbye live betting (can do at pinnacle from aus) and casino option......

Not clear whether Australian customers won't be able to use the original Pinnacle

[Hareeba!]

Not clear whether Australian customers won't be able to use the original Pinnacle

If they are granted an Australian licence they will need to comply with Australian laws so anyone accessing either of their sites from within Australia won't be allowed to play live or at the casino.

[antonyp22]

If they are granted an Australian licence they will need to comply with Australian laws so anyone accessing either of their sites from within Australia won't be allowed to play live or at the casino.

Aren't they just better off including more Australian sports in their existing markets and just increasing the limits rather than applying for an Australian license?

[Dr.Gonzo]

Talent? What talent do you have? Taking anything over Betfair or Pinnacle, or leaching off others opinion isn't talent. Perhaps if you had an opinion of your own you might get on somewhere.

Somebody that will not back their own opinion is the true coward.

You accuse someone who won't back their opinion as being a coward. I assume Hareeba bets into markets on both Betfair and Pinnacle, therefore he is backing his opinion. If this assumption is true he is keener to back his opinion and take these markets on than you.

You however, think so little of your opinion that you are afraid of customers betting into your markets when you happen to be offering better odds than Betfair and Pinnacle. You are angered when a customer does not deliberately take under what the market is offering, this is insane logic.

How do you back your opinion, please explain it to me.

[Dr.Gonzo]

Guys, news out that Pinnacle is looking at starting "Pinnacle Australia" with a greater emphasis on Australian sports with higher limits!

Might be good news, or it might be the beginning of Pinnacle jumping the shark.

I'll hope for the best.

[tommygun]

Books trying to get into Australia is TERRIBLE knews for Aus customers. Look what happened to bet365.

[Hareeba!]

Books trying to get into Australia is TERRIBLE knews for Aus customers. Look what happened to bet365.

What "happened to bet365"?
They were crap long before they opened up in Oz.
And so were Paddy and Ladbrokes.
What happened was these bloody UK (and Irish) books wrecked the once punter friendly online scene in Australia by bringing their cowardly tactics here.

[tommygun]

What "happened to bet365"?
They were crap long before they opened up in Oz.
And so were Paddy and Ladbrokes.
What happened was these bloody UK (and Irish) books wrecked the once punter friendly online scene in Australia by bringing their cowardly tactics here.

what i meant was you could bet live in play without calling up, but now they have australian licence so u have to call up.

[Hareeba!]

what i meant was you could bet live in play without calling up, but now they have australian licence so u have to call up.

maybe you could but most I know haven't been able to bet with the bastards for several years

[tommygun]

maybe you could but most I know haven't been able to bet with the bastards for several years

yeah i don't have an account there anymore.

[tommygun]

maybe you could but most I know haven't been able to bet with the bastards for several years

what were you beating them on?

[Hareeba!]

what were you beating them on?

Back in the dim dark ages I had some success betting NBA and tennis with them.
They didn't like me winning and saw me as a threat to their massive wealth!

[tommygun]

Back in the dim dark ages I had some success betting NBA and tennis with them.
They didn't like me winning and saw me as a threat to their massive wealth!

how much were you betting each wager?

[Hareeba!]

how much were you betting each wager?

a few hundred mostly

[allin1]

What "happened to bet365"?
They were crap long before they opened up in Oz.
And so were Paddy and Ladbrokes.
What happened was these bloody UK (and Irish) books wrecked the once punter friendly online scene in Australia by bringing their cowardly tactics here.

Why do you keep calling them cowards? They are just greedy. It's a business model that increases their profits, it has nothing to do with being cowards.

They encourage people to gamble and lose money. A different type of casino where the winners with an edge are not welcomed.

[Optional]

Why do you keep calling them cowards? They are just greedy. It's a business model that increases their profits, it has nothing to do with being cowards.

They encourage people to gamble and lose money. A different type of casino where the winners with an edge are not welcomed.

They are cowards because they are not prepared to give punters a fair go. Something which has been a feature of our gambling culture forever. I think Australians in general (not hard core gamblers) are surprised as hell to read these books just cancel winners accounts now.

It used to be seen as a privilege to be able to book down here. Until the NT govt bent over and said please come penetrate me up the bung hole UK books.

Pathetic idiots hardly even collect a decent rate of tax from them.

[Hareeba!]

Why do you keep calling them cowards? They are just greedy. It's a business model that increases their profits, it has nothing to do with being cowards.

They encourage people to gamble and lose money. A different type of casino where the winners with an edge are not welcomed.

Cowardice is a trait wherein fear and excess self-concern override doing or saying what is right, good and of help to others or oneself in a time of need—it is the opposite of courage. As a label, "cowardice" indicates a failure of character in the face of a challenge.

They refuse to engage with those they fear might beat them whilst concentrating all their efforts on picking players they are confident of beating.

[MiDNiTe]

how hard is it to walk into a tab and bet if you live in aus, most ppl who work at tabs are pretty cool if you get to know them, if you are worried about limits and stuff don't make a account just bet cash

[Hareeba!]

how hard is it to walk into a tab and bet if you live in aus, most ppl who work at tabs are pretty cool if you get to know them, if you are worried about limits and stuff don't make a account just bet cash

Fine in theory though extremely inconvenient when compared with betting online from home, not to mention their generally higher juiced odds.
BUT, I take it, you haven't heard about the TAB's "non genuine customer" policy? -

http://www.smh.com.au/business/online-betting-unmasked-so-are-we-all-being-gamed-by-an-entire-industry-20140413-36leo.html

[antonyp22]

Betting at the TAB is still not a feasible option even when betting cash. Firstly, TAB barely ever have the best available odds/lines compared to other bookies and secondly, when they do have decent offerings putting on any large amount of money will tumble the odds and/or they'll tell you you are betting over the limit and to try later.

Your best option is to ask the operator to split up the bets for you in smaller denominations.

[MiDNiTe]

i have a tab account but i rarely use it, i don't understand how tab can stop you betting if you just bet cash, i have bet 5k no problem odds can be shit but you get paid cash right away and no annoying roll over bs

[Hareeba!]

i have a tab account but i rarely use it, i don't understand how tab can stop you betting if you just bet cash, i have bet 5k no problem odds can be shit but you get paid cash right away and no annoying roll over bs

Did you not read the story I posted?
I can assure you that is real life what's happening in agencies.
Lots of unhappy agents.

[allin1]

So you would call a casino owner who boots customers that count cards a coward? That's rare. Most would call him a greedy sob or a douche.

Would you call someone a coward just because he doesn't want to fight 3 armed guys at the same time while he is barehanded? I wouldn't. I would call him realistic. It's all about context isn't it?

I don't think bookmaker owners are just cowards. Their staff quickly identify if you have an edge and if you do, the maths says that you are guaranteed to take money from them in the long run.

Only a pinnaclesports type operation would be close to real integrity, but regardless of the huge volumes they take, their model makes far less profits than the European "recreational" books, that's why not many are prepared to go on that route.

It almost sounds personal when you say they are cowards. It has nothing to do with courage. It's about greed.

Their greed is almost "evil" and they make profits by encouraging people to lose their hard earned money. They have fooled you if they made you think they are just cowards. They are far worse than that.

[Optional]

Would you call someone a coward just because he doesn't want to fight 3 armed guys at the same time while he is barehanded? I wouldn't. I would call him realistic. It's all about context isn't it?

Yes, and a bookmaker is not a regular business. Thats the context in which they are cowards.

I don't think bookmaker owners are just cowards. Their staff quickly identify if you have an edge and if you do, the maths says that you are guaranteed to take money from them in the long run.

That's what you are used to. Australia is used to a bookmaking license being a privilege and them being required to do business in a "fair way".

These UK books that have bought up the place want to change the rules, not give punters a fair go and basically do nothing but parasite off the market.

Cowards fits perfectly in the Australian context.

[allin1]

That's what you are used to.

I am used to exchanges, pinny and sbo. The rest are just "casinos" with different types of bets being offered.

I still don't see any cowards, but maybe because that word could bring "innocence" connotations. A guy who is just afraid of taking a bet could be innocent, but these guys know what they are doing. They are not innocent and they are not just cowards imo.

[Dr.Gonzo]

So you would call a casino owner who boots customers that count cards a coward? That's rare. Most would call him a greedy sob or a douche.

Would you call someone a coward just because he doesn't want to fight 3 armed guys at the same time while he is barehanded? I wouldn't. I would call him realistic. It's all about context isn't it?

I don't think bookmaker owners are just cowards. Their staff quickly identify if you have an edge and if you do, the maths says that you are guaranteed to take money from them in the long run.

Only a pinnaclesports type operation would be close to real integrity, but regardless of the huge volumes they take, their model makes far less profits than the European "recreational" books, that's why not many are prepared to go on that route.

It almost sounds personal when you say they are cowards. It has nothing to do with courage. It's about greed.

Their greed is almost "evil" and they make profits by encouraging people to lose their hard earned money. They have fooled you if they made you think they are just cowards. They are far worse than that.

Australian wagering is based on a racing culture.

On course rails bookmakers MUST lay a horse to lose 5 thousand.

Bookmakers used to have courage in Australia.

[Optional]

I am used to exchanges, pinny and sbo. The rest are just "casinos" with different types of bets being offered.

I still don't see any cowards, but maybe because that word could bring "innocence" connotations. A guy who is just afraid of taking a bet could be innocent, but these guys know what they are doing. They are not innocent and they are not just cowards imo.

I guess thats a point. Not that anyone is meaning innocent by the word.

If you want a risk free business you shouldn't be in bookmaking down here is the general feeling. If you want Aussies to gamble against you, you should be gambling to some extent too.

Although it does seem like that has changed now, regulation wise. :\