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This is what you just can't wrap your tiny little brain around. In SBR land, with decent books, T&C that are unfair to the player don't get enforced as written. The books instead work with SBR to determine a fair rule and then change their T&C to adapt to SBR's standard of fairness. Your average euro with a scam rule defends it in court.the terms and agreements are irrelevant to the issue.
LOL and some thought some of what i said was funny.Comment -
apart from what was already mentioned, i'm sure SBR has much more success mediating with us books since they actually know upper management there. i'm 100% convinced every one of those individual ****-ups of any random book (including this totesport-dispute) would have been solved right away if the right uppermanagement people within a book are contacted about it.
the normal betting guy with the problem usually doesn't get past the first line of customer service, people who generally in my experience are trained to defend until the end any bad call, no matter how ridiculous, a young over-eager lines manager might have made. from what i've seen, once a dispute somehow gets past that first line of CS and the customer really was treated unfairly, the problem will be solved very fast.
now if there's a problem with a us book, bill or justin probably calls or e-mails their management contact and the problem is solved. whenever there's a dispute with a euro book, as far as i can tell from the reports of sbr-people posted in threads an e-mail or call is send out to the regular CS, which in the end has as little chance of succeeding as when the bettor tried himself, especially because the term SBR means nothing to them.
anyway, when i first started posting there was talk of an euro-SBR (and I even saw job openings for an Asia-SBR if I'm not mistaken, i'm very curious how that project is going?), but that never came through unfortunately. there have been other sites (BMR for example) who have tried but do not have the same resources as SBR has. i really hope some day either SBR or an entirely different organization would succeed in creating a kind of euro-SBR with the right inside contacts into the Euro-books. it seems to me if this US facing SBR is a profitable venture, a euro-SBR must be as well, if done the right way (but as has been said, this topic has been discussed more often these last two years).Comment -
Get real
If you are going to place a bet on odds that you KNOW are well wrong then at least have half a brain and read the terms and conditions, hardly rocket science.
Anyone that does not read TOS and then whines afterwards gets zero sympathy from me, i thought you Americans were all for taking responsibility for ones owns actions.
So now unless books bend to sbr rules and interpretations they are scammers lol, arguements starting to get thin now boys.
So its a case of do as we say or we will brand you scammers, nice work i must say.
You see you have so little choice in the USA and so you can bring books down through blackmail and force them to change TOS but in europe its the other way round, players have a choice and if they dont like Totes TOS they can go to Betfair or any one of hundreds of books, they can use australian books, asian books and so maybe that is why you have such narrow vision on all this.
But i ahve to be honest do you honeslty think that this attitude of do as we say or else makes sbr look good, i dont.
I am all for player power, may not seem it but i am, but i also belive in one taking responsibility for their own choices and their own actions, it may be the american way to not do that and then run crying to sbr but again i synpathise with no one that delibaretly tries to take a false line without checking the TOS and what could happen afterwards.
I suppose the lesson here is bet with a US book because TOS simply dont matter when you got sbr your corner.Comment -
even totesport's TOS doesnt give them the authority to change a wager. it gives them the right to change the price or spread offered.
a wager is a contract in itself. the book offers it, the punter accepts it. the book can reserve the right to change a mistake they made in the line or price, but they can't force the punter to accept the new terms. once the price or spread is changed the wager is null and void.
it's sad you have no response to this but to post smileys.
Last edited by losturmarbles; 04-28-09, 05:33 PM.Comment -
And that would be bad for players why?
But no, the real lesson is "Bet with an SBR-approved book because you will not get screwed no matter what you try to do to them." No matter how much nonsense you post, from a player's perspective, you can't beat that... but you aren't a serious player, and you don't get how good that is for players. Name any Euro book with T&C fairer than SBR standards. You can't.Last edited by tomcowley; 04-28-09, 05:59 PM.Comment -
there you go again tomcowley assuming you know everything, how do you know what sort of player i am, you dont, you have no idea at all, you just assume and thats all your arguements are based on are assumptions.
Pinnacle Sports have one of the worst CS departments around but screw that because of everything else.
BetCris group have huge withdrawal fees, but screw that because they are so good on everything else.
So selective you are, you ignore the downside and just look at the upside of USA books and take the opposite view on Euro books
Many more millions bet with euro books, in fact i would say many more millions bet with just ladbrokes than they do with all the USA facing books and they dont bow to your demands, strange that hey.
Serious bettors mate bet with betfair, you cant and so your judgement on that score is suspect at best but then betfair are just another euro crap book aint they.
oops no they are not they are A rated by sbr so i take it that betfair must have done exactly what sbr said then, dont think so
Ladbrokes A rated, wonder if they changed their TOS to suit sbr, mmm dont think so for one millisecond.
William hill, oh crap i am just repeating myself now, point is that there are Euro books that are A rated on here that have not subjected their TOS to your will, bet thats upsetting to ya.Comment -
well make a valid point then and i wont have to laugh my bollocks everytime will i.even totesport's TOS doesnt give them the authority to change a wager. it gives them the right to change the price or spread offered.
a wager is a contract in itself. the book offers it, the punter accepts it. the book can reserve the right to change a mistake they made in the line or price, but they can't force the punter to accept the new terms. once the price or spread is changed the wager is null and void.
it's sad you have no response to this but to post smileys.Comment -
You've posted that you do advertising crap with books- you don't do that if you're making a living by kicking their teeth in. I can get my cris balance out for less than .2% fees. And if you really think I can't bet at euro books, you're delusional.
And your argument doesn't even begin to make any sense. The fact that some euro books don't adopt SBR standards IN NO WAY makes it bad that US books have. What the hell are you even trying to argue?Comment -
ok bro
go back and read all i said rather than just coming in at the end reading squat and repeating the same question asked over and over again.
and sorry your statment about the TOS did make me laugh, if you cant see why i cant help you
and remember this, those of you that are mouthed off about tote and so on based all your assumptions and opinions on what the OP said, nothing more, you ahve no idea if what was written was true or the full story.
what is true is that IBAS said take a running jump, now you may not like IBAS because they are not sbr and because they are English, nothing i can do about that at all, but the guy said IBAS ruled against them and if they did it emans they had the FULL story.
Now that you cannot get way from and my irrational bullshit may well not spin but it smells a lot better than the bullshit i have heard so far in this thread from the anti european's
Gguy tried it on, guy got stuffed, he cries to IBAS, they say get stuffed, so he comes here knowing what the reaction will be,
And that is what sbr is coming to, post a story on here and wait for those lovely little one liners that follow from the same characters in thread after thread.
And you wonder why European books dont want anything to do with sbr, lol
In fact i smell roses somewhereComment -
bit defensive are we not?
Your first bit i just dont get, though i am sure its a dig at me, would be in character
With regards to BetCris, good on you that you have to pay to get your own money out.
If you are in the USA then you cant, if you are not then fair enough, all that means is i jumped to the very same assumptuions that you do, but i dont think so.Comment -
My arguement is that euro books that dont adopt sbr standards or bend to their will or bow to their demands etc etc are still rated A despite everything you throw at them.
I tell you for such an anti european site there are a few highly rated euro books there, sort of undermines your euro crap philosophy dont it big boyComment -
who are you talking to? i dont know who the OP was talking about, nor do i care. i dont have the slightest interest in any of it.
MY INTERESTS LIES WITH EXPOSING HOW IRRATIONAL YOU ARE.
tomcowley asks you if a book has the right to change a wager where they posted a bad line and grade the wager under the new line?
you respond "Bookie is right only if its in the terms and conditions that they are allowed to do that"
so according to you, a book has the right to scam someone as long as they disclose it in their terms and conditions.
do you have a response to this? NO, NOTHING BUT GARBAGE.
this stance discredits your whole defense of tote.
NO BOOK has the right to change a WAGER. they can change the offer if it was a mistake, but that VOIDS the original WAGER.
you are endorsing SCAMMERS, and if a book subscribes to your standards, then it is a SCAM BOOK. period.Comment -
lol bet you love those bolds and capital letters, do you really think it gets your point across better, duh nope
so its a scam because they have a rule lol
whats wrong with you? your calling the tote scam, you ahve no idea what you are talking about and you call me irrational
Seriously come back to me with some proper comments and then we can debate, but whileever you call the tote a scam book you have zero credibility bro
jog onComment -
Lol trying to discuss fees with me, now that is funny.
splitting hairs now are we? betfair is my answer, you asked and i told you
betfair
any bet any size taken
BUT
because i see how this is going and its gone totally away from my original objection to the words euro trash and is now all about euro v usa books i will answer
Any of the big 3 uk bookies will take any bet any size via the telephone and not online, they handle all their big bettors over the phone and verification of this is as an example listed under ladbrokes last years earnings and their explanation of big bettors, just do a google
VCBet are another, though not sure if they take big bets online, but rgeardless, if you ahve a telephone account with any of the big uk bettors they will take your bets and VCBet have built a reputration of taking on big bettors
There are many others, also please note that in the uk you can walk through any town and visit any amount of bookie shops and place bets at each and everyone
for a UK person getting a big bet on has never been an issue and never will be.
But what difference does it make if it is an exchange or bookies anyway, point is you want a big bet without limits or without being restricted you can easily get that in europe as qucikly as you can with any offshore book.
whats the next question? what euro book has pink curtains, i mean come on this is getting ridiculous.
the original point of dispute was tomcowley saying the tote is another euro trash, not euro trash but another euro trash,
though a search of his name on here is littered with this is crap this is trash so not surprised really, my own fault for falling for the bait, everyone else ignores him it seems, i should have done
are you saying they are now trash because they limit you, what other complaints do you have about euro books and why they are trash
and discuss the big uk books with me, not betway or whatever other book that you conveniently can complain about because i can do the same with us books, just have to open up sbr rating page and look at D downwards
Tell me how betfair, ladbrokes, corals, w hills are euro trash, i would say tote as well but that just fuels the fire here for some crazy reason
though wont be surprised to hear someone call ladbrokes trash lol, i mean if the tote can be called trash then anything is possible.
seems to be the barrell is being scraped and the word trash is attached to anything and everything european book related
smells of bigotry to me.Comment -
Betpartner,
Do you work for Totesport? Are you associated with them in any way? I don't think I've ever seen such a diligent "defender of the truth" for a sportsbook ever.Comment -
I am in the USA. I can bet on euro books. So can anybody else who does this seriously. I'm more than happy to pay .2% to withdraw my balance from a book that lets me win 6 figures. That's a lot better than being able to withdraw some pissant amount for free after I'm cut to pennies after a handful of bets. DUCY?
Wow.. just wow. I suppose matchbook takes any bet any size too??!?!?betfair
any bet any size taken
Bullshit. Billy Walters wouldn't need the syndicate he has if that were true. Ever heard of him? You think those shops are going to take millions (yes, millions) each on 20 games in a day when he's hitting well over 55% long term? Seriously? You can't be that stupid.Any of the big 3 uk bookies will take any bet any size via the telephone and not online
WillHill has worked with SBR. BetFair gave at least some cooperation in one really strange dispute (and you want to talk about fees.... OMFG). StanJames settled a complaint appropriately. I haven't seen a dispute with Coral or Ladbroke's. There has been talk of downgrading them if they don't intend to work with SBR, but at this point in time, it hasn't happened, and it hasn't needed to.My arguement is that euro books that dont adopt sbr standards or bend to their will or bow to their demands etc etc are still rated A despite everything you throw at them.Comment -
He's associated business-wise with some number of euro books. He was a big defender of BetEd too. Just your average biased moron whose reasoning never progressed beyond "any contract can and should be enforced as written" and "any law is a just law".Comment -
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Dont try and tarnish me tomcowley with crap like that, i took an opposite view to you on one case that involved Beted that was it, so dont try and make out that all i do is defend books for the sake of it.
I take a position when i think its justified end of and i have defended players rights also.
Your nothing but a forum bully, most on here ignore you because you shout them down, you insult them with name calling, when they dont agree with you, you call them morons or shills or whatever else.
You can never have a serious debate without being agressive, thats your style, may work on others but not me, i see you for what you are, nothing but a bully and coward that sits behind a keyboard thinking he knows all, when all you do is assume about books that you know nothing about.
Your a liar, either you lie that you have accounts with european books or you lie on your application forms, either way your a liar.
Now come back at me with "lets have a bet that i am telling the truth" bloody boring behaviour
You try to tarnish people with innuendo when they disagree with you and are followed by your sheep who also know nothing about european books and just wanna insult.
You want to have a serious debate with me then do so, but when you start the crap that you do with others i will treat you staraight back in the same manner.
The moron here is you, the very second you said the tote is another euro crap book you showed your utter ignorance of european books and you just dont get that do you
you try to twist things, you bring up non stop other issues about all sorts of things but that will never erase the fact that you called the tote euro crap and then try to make out you know what you are talking about.
If you truely understood euro books you would understand how stupid that statement of yours was.
I know the tote because i am English, the tote is an English institution in itself with a history that you cannot begin to fathom, they have a reputation in England second to none,
So why dont you know insult all the English and show your true colours,
Just ebcause you disagree with the results of an arbitration service that you ahve no time for that found the tote innocent you then decide that everyone that accepts that is a moron, your attitude stinks.
But that does not hide the fact that you know nothing at all about the tote and you gave your silly opinion and i called you on it and so what do you do? you revert to your known bullying
Guess what mate not working on me, tarnish me all you want, call me names all you want, try to shout me down all you want, just wont work
I will always know and state publicy that you know nothing about euro books or you would never have uttered such a stupid statement.
You call me biased? lol then that makes millions of us that think that the tote is above reproach.
Strange that heyComment -
this is bs. i'm sure you can get a bet any size at terrible odds (and the book will probably run straight to betfair to hedge after you've put down the phone), but if the odds are the best in the market they will definitely not let you get a decent bet. maybe 5 years ago, not anymore.
anyway, there's no denying the average eurobook is more eager to limit then the us book (while the us book is way more eager to boot someone altogether than the euro book, which boils down to the same in the end. either you're able to bet 5 euro or you're able to bet nothing). not sure what this has to do with the quality of the book though, apparently sbr agress since they have a ridiculous limiting book like bet365 on their list with an A-something, for some reason rating this as one of Europe's best books.Comment -
well pricing is a different matter entirely, i do agree with you that the big uk books and in fact most euro books are poor on prices, i wont disagree with that at all.
But i do stand by my point that big bettors can get on in europe, most big hitters actually use betfair these days, but the big books do take big hitters over the phone.
and yes i am not sure what this has to do with the subject at hand, but for some reason every aspect of euro books and usa books has been dragged in to this with everyone trying to score points.
this for me was and is all about the tote being called euro trash, nothing else,Comment -
Every time I drill you on a factual point, you post a 20 paragraph response of nonsense. No book will take unlimited bets, period. You really want to stand behind that one?
Holy shit tomcowley uses a beard. Call Interpol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!Your a liar, either you lie that you have accounts with european books or you lie on your application forms, either way your a liar.Last edited by tomcowley; 04-29-09, 09:56 AM.Comment -
No, they won't. They'll let you put money up and hope somebody matches it. If I want more than the liquidity of the market, I'm not getting it down.Comment -
betfairs liquidity is the best there is and i have read many stories online of the UK's biggest punters who bet in millions getting their bets matched.
quite possibly by the bookies themselves but they get them matched nonetheless
because betfair is targeted to european any bet you want to get matched will be on an european based bet.
i have not read anywhere that anyone could not get a bet matched on betfair, does not mean it has not happened but i have not read it.
so i stand by my point that betfair does not limit, never has never will and anyone can get a bet matched.Comment -
ROFL. I'll let the euros on here rip you for that one so you might actually believe it.Comment
