Sportsbooks in Vegas repeated asking if I have a players card when requesting wager??

[Sawyer]

You can beat books in sports betting but you can't beat them in casino games..(unless you find a bug/edge like Joseph Jagger)

That's why they always prefer you to play casino games. Makes sense to place sports wagers with chips, good idea.

[MonkeyF0cker]

You can beat books in sports betting but you can't beat them in casino games..(unless you find a bug/edge like Joseph Jagger)

That's why they always prefer you to play casino games. Makes sense to place sports wagers with chips, good idea.

You can't? Ever heard of the Griffin book?

[MonkeyF0cker]

When did casinos ever have losing months on table games? Industry-wide, I'll say never. Perhaps a whale beats an individual casino from time to time, but there is simply no way the Vegas industry can lose over the course of the month. I would suspect even a daily loss is extremly rare.

Wow. Casinos STATEWIDE have had losing months in $100, $25, and Megabucks slots in the last couple of years. They've had numerous losing months in bingo as well. To think that a single casino "extremely rarely" has losing days is pretty ignorant.

Industry-wide? Well. Duh. You're talking about tens of millions of hands versus a few thousand sporting events.

[mr.ed]

To think that a single casino "extremely rarely" has losing days is pretty ignorant.

Agreed...that would be pretty ignorant.....I'm sure individual casino suffer there fair share of daily losses...especially the smaller ones.

I'll stand my claim that Vegas casinos as a whole very rarely will lose even on a daily basis on table games. It would take a whale with a very large bankroll to overcome the thousands of negative expectation plays placed every second. It does happen from time to time, and usually it gets media attention and can impact a stock price.

I also do not doubt that Vegas casinos as a whole can suffer losses on individual games over the course of a month...most likely those that are tied to Progressive jackpots. For Vegas to lose over an entire month in slots is nearly impossible.

[Peregrine Stoop]

if you're an out of towner betting $500 or less, use the card
if you're a recreational better, use the card

otherwise, use judiciously

[James D]

That is an extremely long-winded explanation of a lack of volume despite how you're trying to qualify it.

A lack of volume allows a book to get hurt by a few players.
Casinos have had losing months in table games too. Sports isn't the only thing they sometimes get beat on.

You claim my statement was long-winded. Yet in this short concise statement you proved you have no idea what you are talking about. I did not say casinos I said The entire state of nevada had a losing sports month, not just a single casino I also did not have to go back years to cite an example. The last month of data released was nov 2012, and the house won 780+ million everywhere else and took an 8 million dollar loss in sports .

Your later argument in this thread about megabucks having a losing month is a straw argument because it is a progressive jackpot and megabucks long term can NEVER lose money.

Also your argument was "casinos have losing months in table games too" Megabucks is not a table game.

You stated casinos have losing months on table games. I am sure you are not just making up facts out of thin air so can you cite some examples for me? I would love to read about the circumstances.

[James D]

Wow. Casinos STATEWIDE have had losing months in $100, $25, and Megabucks slots in the last couple of years. They've had numerous losing months in bingo as well. To think that a single casino "extremely rarely" has losing days is pretty ignorant.

Industry-wide? Well. Duh. You're talking about tens of millions of hands versus a few thousand sporting events.

You do realize that slots is a guaranteed profit for the house right? You are aware that the house "programs its profit" by setting the machines at whatever return rate they want. (The state sets megabucks) So they CAN NOT lose money long term.

The original discussion was how sports books are by far the least profitable gaming revenue stream for the casino. My evidence was not only major casinos like wynn/encore head John Avello stating Wynn/encore lost money this football year. You stated he was lying, I do not think that is the case. I also cited revenue for the most recent month of nevada gaming showing a 782 million dollar win for the casinos yet a loss of 8 million in sports. You debate that by arguing a "single casino" can have losing days. Although it is unlikely, of course a single casino can have a losing day. So can Warren Buffet or Billy Walters, that sample of a single day is no less insignificant then when someone posts in the Players Talk forum how there new "system" is 5-2 last night. No one except you brought up single casinos or single days because it is not relevant to the discussion.

As far as your "industry-wide" comment, the tens of millions of hands versus a few thousand sporting events comment bolsters my argument not yours. DUH

[MonkeyF0cker]

You claim my statement was long-winded. Yet in this short concise statement you proved you have no idea what you are talking about. I did not say casinos I said The entire state of nevada had a losing sports month, not just a single casino I also did not have to go back years to cite an example. The last month of data released was nov 2012, and the house won 780+ million everywhere else and took an 8 million dollar loss in sports .

Your later argument in this thread about megabucks having a losing month is a straw argument because it is a progressive jackpot and megabucks long term can NEVER lose money.

Also your argument was "casinos have losing months in table games too" Megabucks is not a table game.

You stated casinos have losing months on table games. I am sure you are not just making up facts out of thin air so can you cite some examples for me? I would love to read about the circumstances.

1. You're comparing MILLIONS of hands to a few THOUSAND sporting events. Umm. Duh. Which do you think is more susceptible to monthly variance?
2. You don't have to go back years? LMAO. Well, gee. Neither did I. And I wouldn't have to go back at all either if IT JUST HAPPENED for the first time in a LONG TIME. Durr.
3. Casinos don't release individual, public monthly reports. It happens. Talk to a pit manager. Learn something.
4. I never said Megabucks was a table game. Where the fukk did you get that from? LOL.

[MonkeyF0cker]

You do realize that slots is a guaranteed profit for the house right? You are aware that the house "programs its profit" by setting the machines at whatever return rate they want. (The state sets megabucks) So they CAN NOT lose money long term.

The original discussion was how sports books are by far the least profitable gaming revenue stream for the casino. My evidence was not only major casinos like wynn/encore head John Avello stating Wynn/encore lost money this football year. You stated he was lying, I do not think that is the case. I also cited revenue for the most recent month of nevada gaming showing a 782 million dollar win for the casinos yet a loss of 8 million in sports. You debate that by arguing a "single casino" can have losing days. Although it is unlikely, of course a single casino can have a losing day. So can Warren Buffet or Billy Walters, that sample of a single day is no less insignificant then when someone posts in the Players Talk forum how there new "system" is 5-2 last night. No one except you brought up single casinos or single days because it is not relevant to the discussion.

As far as your "industry-wide" comment, the tens of millions of hands versus a few thousand sporting events comment bolsters my argument not yours. DUH

1. I did not state anyone was lying.
2. You're ONCE AGAIN comparing MILLIONS of hands to a few THOUSAND sporting events. Durr.
3. Single casinos ARE relevant because of REASON NUMBER 2, genius.
4. Umm. The millions of hands versus a few thousand sporting events does NOT bolster your argument, pinhead. There are FAR more resources devoted to slots and table games than sports. Unless you think electricity, pit bosses, dealers, cashiers, surveillance, security, cocktail waitresses, etc. running 24x7 are free.
5. Most of the time, pits and slot machines go UNUSED.
6. Sportsbooks consume small corners in each casino and most CLOSE daily.
7. Sportsbooks return far more than Pai Gow pits, Poker pits, bingo, poker rooms, among others LONG TERM.

[Sawyer]

You can't? Ever heard of the Griffin book?

Please read carefully.

You can beat books in sports betting but you can't beat them in casino games..(unless you find a bug/edge like Joseph Jagger)

[MonkeyF0cker]

Uhh. You edited your post.

Jesus Christ.

[Peregrine Stoop]

casinos can lose for a long-time at games they don't expect to lose at - just check out how the M Resort did with vp its first year.

[poker6469]

Why do the books in Vegas want a bettor to get a players card? Of what advantage is that to them? What do they do with the information?

Thanks

been going there alot latley and alot of sports books there dont ask me for my players card.i bet 1100.00 on game and forgot to give the girl my card they never ask for it.the reason you might want to use it would be for comps .i onley sports bet when at the lvh super book in las vegas and they comp me food and free roooms alot.

[James D]

casinos can lose for a long-time at games they don't expect to lose at - just check out how the M Resort did with vp its first year.

I intentionally never reference video poker due to the certain machines, some deuces wild, 9/6 jacks or better just to name a few. There is minute edges in some VP and in other forms of VP the edge is razor thin for the house. That being said we all know the slot and VP revenue triples in most months and always doubles table game revenue. The slot and VP machines are the casinos engine

[James D]

gaming.nv.gov/modules/showdocument.aspx?documentid=7503

This is the last 12 months ending 11-30 2012 nevada casinos net wins. I will give you the major casino games to show you how little sports betting means to the house.


blackjack 984 million
craps 382 million
bac/minib 1.43 BILLION
roulette 361 million
keno 94 million ( keno????)
Paigow 134 million
3 card poker 156 million
sports book 154 million
SLOTS AND VP 6.7 BILLION

I could post more but you get the idea.

Moneyfocker,

I keep posting facts and publicly available data and you keep posting nonsense. When I ask for proof you tell me to "talk to a pit manager learn something". Let me teach you something genius, the pit manager works for the casino not you.

Just a few of your statements, its too painful and time consuming to address them all.


Casinos dont release monthly reports.... Casinos have had losing months in tables too YOU JUST SAID THEY DONT RELEASE MONTHLY REPORTS IF THEY DONT RELEASE MONTHLY INFO HOW CAN YOU SAY THEY HAVE LOSING MONTHS IN TABLES??

Most of the time pit and slot machines go unused but sportsbooks close DAILY YOU ARGUE PIT AND SLOT MACHINES GO "UNUSED" THEN YOU STATE SPORTSBOOKS CLOSE. IF THEY CLOSE DAILY AREN'T THEY 100% UNUSED DURING THOSE HOURS???

Sporsbooks consume small corners in each casino ACTUALLY THEY DO NOT. THEY UTILIZE A GREAT AMOUNT OF SPACE FAR MORE THEN FOR EXAMPLE THE FOUR OR SIX 3-CARD POKER TABLES IN A CASINO. THOSE FOUR OR SIX TABLES GENERATE MORE MONEY THEN THE ENTIRE SPORTSBOOK ANNUALLY!!!! A FEW TABLES OF AN OBSCURE GAME GENERATE MORE MONEY THEN THE ENTIRE SPORTS BOOK !!



I WILL CONTINUE THIS DISCUSSION WHEN YOU START POSTING FACTS AND DATA NOT STUPID SHIT LIKE TALK TO A PIT MANAGER

[MonkeyF0cker]

gaming.nv.gov/modules/showdocument.aspx?documentid=7503

This is the last 12 months ending 11-30 2012 nevada casinos net wins. I will give you the major casino games to show you how little sports betting means to the house.


blackjack 984 million
craps 382 million
bac/minib 1.43 BILLION
roulette 361 million
keno 94 million ( keno????)
Paigow 134 million
3 card poker 156 million
sports book 154 million
SLOTS AND VP 6.7 BILLION

I could post more but you get the idea.

Moneyfocker,

I keep posting facts and publicly available data and you keep posting nonsense. When I ask for proof you tell me to "talk to a pit manager learn something". Let me teach you something genius, the pit manager works for the casino not you.

Just a few of your statements, its too painful and time consuming to address them all.

It's cute how you combine some games (like baccarat and mini baccarat) but don't include the race figures in the sportsbook number. "Facts." LOL.

Casinos dont release monthly reports.... Casinos have had losing months in tables too YOU JUST SAID THEY DONT RELEASE MONTHLY REPORTS IF THEY DONT RELEASE MONTHLY INFO HOW CAN YOU SAY THEY HAVE LOSING MONTHS IN TABLES??

Because I live in Vegas and know people that work in important jobs here.

Most of the time pit and slot machines go unused but sportsbooks close DAILY YOU ARGUE PIT AND SLOT MACHINES GO "UNUSED" THEN YOU STATE SPORTSBOOKS CLOSE. IF THEY CLOSE DAILY AREN'T THEY 100% UNUSED DURING THOSE HOURS???

I'm talking about opportunity cost. Take an econ class or two. There are hours that go by where no money is spent by the casino for the sportsbook. Replace it with slots and/or table games and MORE machines go unused, MORE electricity is consumed, MORE employees are paid wages, etc. Half of the pits are NOT IN USE throughout the day. What don't you understand about them NOT taking away from those games?

Sporsbooks consume small corners in each casino ACTUALLY THEY DO NOT. THEY UTILIZE A GREAT AMOUNT OF SPACE FAR MORE THEN FOR EXAMPLE THE FOUR OR SIX 3-CARD POKER TABLES IN A CASINO. THOSE FOUR OR SIX TABLES GENERATE MORE MONEY THEN THE ENTIRE SPORTSBOOK ANNUALLY!!!! A FEW TABLES OF AN OBSCURE GAME GENERATE MORE MONEY THEN THE ENTIRE SPORTS BOOK !!

So you think that they would rather replace sportsbook space with Pai Gow, Keno, Bingo, Mini Bac, etc.? And those are MORE IMPORTANT to the casino than the sports and racebook? Of course, they can't be. They don't return as much as blackjack (nor do they return as much as the sports and race book but nevermind your hypocrisy there). Just offer one bland product then. Brilliant. You should run a casino! LOL.

Of course, ONCE AGAIN, all of those games are offered 24x7 whereas the sportsbook isn't. And, ONCE AGAIN, your "facts" are wrong. The sportsbook generates more revenue than those games individually. And, ONCE AGAIN, you don't comprehend diminishing returns.

I WILL CONTINUE THIS DISCUSSION WHEN YOU START POSTING FACTS AND DATA NOT STUPID SHIT LIKE TALK TO A PIT MANAGER

You're arguing with me about something that you don't have a clue about. Go ahead and post your "facts" and then state your OPINION trying to extrapolate an obtuse argument. It doesn't make you right.

[MonkeyF0cker]

Perhaps, when you can comprehend the difference between two elementary terms like REVENUE and PROFIT, you will actually not embarrass yourself.

[James D]

It's cute how you combine some games (like baccarat and mini baccarat) but don't include the race figures in the sportsbook number. "Facts." LOL.



Because I live in Vegas and know people that work in important jobs here.



I'm talking about opportunity cost. Take an econ class or two. There are hours that go by where no money is spent by the casino for the sportsbook. Replace it with slots and/or table games and MORE machines go unused, MORE electricity is consumed, MORE employees are paid wages, etc. Half of the pits are NOT IN USE throughout the day. What don't you understand about them NOT taking away from those games?



So you think that they would rather replace sportsbook space with Pai Gow, Keno, Bingo, Mini Bac, etc.? And those are MORE IMPORTANT to the casino than the sports and racebook? Of course, they can't be. They don't return as much as blackjack (nor do they return as much as the sports and race book but nevermind your hypocrisy there). Just offer one bland product then. Brilliant. You should run a casino! LOL.

Of course, ONCE AGAIN, all of those games are offered 24x7 whereas the sportsbook isn't. And, ONCE AGAIN, your "facts" are wrong. The sportsbook generates more revenue than those games individually. And, ONCE AGAIN, you don't comprehend diminishing returns.



You're arguing with me about something that you don't have a clue about. Go ahead and post your "facts" and then state your OPINION trying to extrapolate an obtuse argument. It doesn't make you right.

Race book is not part of the sports book, why would I include them. Some books have one and not the other.
Bac and mini bac are the exact same game, but if it makes you sleep better at night here you go.
Mini bac revenue is less then 95 million annually, BAC IS 1.35 BILLION. ( thats 8X your precious sportsbook in one game alone)


As far as knowing people there, I lived in vegas for 15 years and and have been going there for almost 30 but that means nothing. The data is the data.

EMPLOYEE WAGES AND YOU ACTUALLY USE THE COST OF ELECTRICITY AS AN ARGUMENT?? THE COST OF ELECTRICITY TO RUN THE MACHINES ?? LOL THAT COULD BE THE FUNNIEST THING I EVER READ IN MY LIFE. SLOTS REVENUE WAS 6.7 BILLION DOLLARS!!! EXACTLY HOW MUCH ELECTRICITY IS THAT??. THATS 43 TIMES MORE REVENUE THEN THE SPORTSBOOK .


YOUR ARGUMENT THAT I WANT TO REMOVE THE SPORTSBOOK AND JUST OFFER ONE BLAND PRODUCT WOULD BE THE STUPIDEST THING I EVER READ IF YOU DIDNT FACTOR IN THE COST OF ELECTRICITY WHEN GENERATING 6.7 BILLION DOLLARS IN SLOT MACHINE PROFIT. I SAID FROM THE VERY BEGINNING THE REASON CASINOS HAVE SPORTSBOOKS IS BECAUSE THE CLIENTS WANT THEM. I NEVER SAID THEY SHOULD BE REMOVED I SAID THEY WERE A MUST HAVE FOR ANY SERIOUS PROPERTY.

AS FAR AS ME ARGUING AND "I DONT HAVE A CLUE", I KEEP POSTING FACTS AND YOU KEEP ARGUING LITTLE NONSENSE LIKE BAC AND MINI BAC BEING COUNTED AS ONE.



How can a rational person argue against these numbers.

Last 12 months nevada gaming revenue 12-01-11 thru 11-30-12

Blackjack 984 million
craps 382 million
roulette 361 million
3 card poker 156 million
Baccarat 1.335 BILLION***
mini bac 95 million
let it ride 44 million
pai gow ( t) 19 million
Pai gow (p) 104 million

all those are casino games

slots and VP 6.771 BILLION***

RACE AND SPORTS BOOKS

RACE 54 MILLION
SPORTS 154 MILLION

OTHER GAMES

TOTAL REVENUE 146 MILLION ( miscellaneous bullshit like the big wheel generates 94% of what the sportsbook does )

[James D]

Perhaps, when you can comprehend the difference between two elementary terms like REVENUE and PROFIT, you will actually not embarrass yourself.

I tried to ignore your silly insults repeatedly but you are just a fool. I guess we are talking about 11 billion dollars in revenue on table games and slots. Why dont you explain to me where the 11 billion dollars in revenue will go to overhead and I will explain to you where the lousy 154 million in revenue from the sportsbooks will go.

I will even have the table games kick in and pay for your electric bill. LOL

[James D]

[RMX] Arguing on the internet is like special olympics - Meme Center


I am going to stop debating these points now, sorry to OP for contributing to hijacking the thread.

Moneyfo,

We obviously will not be convincing each other of anything. Good luck with your plays, I am done debating.

[MonkeyF0cker]

Race book is not part of the sports book, why would I include them. Some books have one and not the other.

LOL. Name one strip casino book that doesn't offer races. Go ahead. I dare you.

Bac and mini bac are the exact same game, but if it makes you sleep better at night here you go.
Mini bac revenue is less then 95 million annually, BAC IS 1.35 BILLION. ( thats 8X your precious sportsbook in one game alone)

As far as knowing people there, I lived in vegas for 15 years and and have been going there for almost 30 but that means nothing. The data is the data.

The data is REVENUE, but after all of this time, I don't expect you to understand much of anything. It's probably why you don't live here anymore. And if you actually knew a casino pit manager or two, you'd be able to get it through your thick head that casinos can and do have losing months in table games.

EMPLOYEE WAGES AND YOU ACTUALLY USE THE COST OF ELECTRICITY AS AN ARGUMENT?? THE COST OF ELECTRICITY TO RUN THE MACHINES ?? LOL THAT COULD BE THE FUNNIEST THING I EVER READ IN MY LIFE. SLOTS REVENUE WAS 6.7 BILLION DOLLARS!!! EXACTLY HOW MUCH ELECTRICITY IS THAT??. THATS 43 TIMES MORE REVENUE THEN THE SPORTSBOOK .

The electricity cost certainly cannot be more than 43 times the electricity cost of a sportsbook says the idiot. Of course, that doesn't even consider all of the other costs. What do you think the electricity bill is for a strip casino? Peanuts? LOL. Of course, you try to ignore the fact that my statement had to do with opportunity cost as well. Something that you obviously cannot comprehend.

YOUR ARGUMENT THAT I WANT TO REMOVE THE SPORTSBOOK AND JUST OFFER ONE BLAND PRODUCT WOULD BE THE STUPIDEST THING I EVER READ IF YOU DIDNT FACTOR IN THE COST OF ELECTRICITY WHEN GENERATING 6.7 BILLION DOLLARS IN SLOT MACHINE PROFIT. I SAID FROM THE VERY BEGINNING THE REASON CASINOS HAVE SPORTSBOOKS IS BECAUSE THE CLIENTS WANT THEM. I NEVER SAID THEY SHOULD BE REMOVED I SAID THEY WERE A MUST HAVE FOR ANY SERIOUS PROPERTY.

No. You said...

Of course long term they make money in the sports book ( usually) however compared to every other inch of the gaming floor the sportsbook is the hands down the weakest revenue generator.

Which is incorrect. Look at the data, dummy.

AS FAR AS ME ARGUING AND "I DONT HAVE A CLUE", I KEEP POSTING FACTS AND YOU KEEP ARGUING LITTLE NONSENSE LIKE BAC AND MINI BAC BEING COUNTED AS ONE.

LOL. Ironic. I was the first to post a link to the Nevada Gaming Revenue Reports. Durr.

How can a rational person argue against these numbers.

Last 12 months nevada gaming revenue 12-01-11 thru 11-30-12

Blackjack 984 million
craps 382 million
roulette 361 million
3 card poker 156 million
Baccarat 1.335 BILLION***
mini bac 95 million
let it ride 44 million
pai gow ( t) 19 million
Pai gow (p) 104 million

all those are casino games

slots and VP 6.771 BILLION***

RACE AND SPORTS BOOKS

RACE 54 MILLION
SPORTS 154 MILLION

OTHER GAMES

TOTAL REVENUE 146 MILLION ( miscellaneous bullshit like the big wheel generates 94% of what the sportsbook does )

You still don't comprehend extremely simple concepts. Revenue is not equal to profit. And sportsbook revenue beats several games that are offered around the clock. But keep cherry picking data to try to make an ignorant point. This is entertaining.

[MonkeyF0cker]

I tried to ignore your silly insults repeatedly but you are just a fool. I guess we are talking about 11 billion dollars in revenue on table games and slots. Why dont you explain to me where the 11 billion dollars in revenue will go to overhead and I will explain to you where the lousy 154 million in revenue from the sportsbooks will go.

I will even have the table games kick in and pay for your electric bill. LOL

Ahh. This again. Millions of hands versus thousands of sporting events. Durr.

You just keep repeating the same nonsense.

All of that revenue and somehow casinos still posting losses. Impossible according to you.

[CanuckG]

James D buried