Legit Soccer Question for the Cognoscenti

[Doc JS]

Looking for informed opinions...not haters.

What I know about soccer wouldn't fill a thimble. That's why I'm asking you guys.

The USA got out of its pool and made the round of 16. But after watching the likes of Spain, Netherlands, Germany, etc., it seems to me we are a long way from challenging the worlds elite.

So my question:
What are the chances the USA wins a World Cup in the next 20-25 years?
Doc

[pavyracer]

Doc,

Unless american parents send their children 8-16 years old into Europe and enroll into Manchester United, Barcelona, Ajax soccer academies full time you will never see top talent in US team. The players you saw competing today didn't go to high school. They were bread in the youth academies and played with the best of the best since they were 8 years old. They lived in dorms in the soccer youth academies and were "home" schooled there. All they did since they were 8 years old was play soccer 8 hrs a day. With the current system in the US being the HS, either private or public, and without foreign coaches we will never win the World Cup.

[Dirty Sanchez]

Yikes...the biggest problem for the US is the ability to develop young talent through the USA Soccer Federation, as well as players getting International experience playing in Europe. We see a little of it now with players like Dempsey, Howard, Donovan, etc. The US has lots of competition from other sports in the country and kids are playing soccer, but once they get to the high school level athletes go to the bigger (more money) sports.

Are chances of winning a World Cup in your time frame would mean the next 5-6 tournaments, which I would say highly unlikely.

[gryfyn1]

Not just that, but the best american athletes have to want to play Soccer; currently they don't --

Till players like Lebron James, Reggie Bush and Carl Crawford choose soccer over baseball, football or basketball, the US will always be behind.

[Doc JS]

Pavy,
That was sorta what I thought...

Followup question:
How many of the USAs starting line-up would start for either Spain or Netherlands?

Doc

[Dirty Sanchez]

Lebron playing soccer at 270 lbs..lol...he would be out of gas after a few trips down the pitch, but your point is spot on as the athletes need to want to play a sport other than the big money sports, which will probably never happen.

[maersksealand]

not in our lifetime. On the other hand are no teams in the world able to match teams from NFL, NBA, WNBA or MLB.

[Doc JS]

Not just that, but the best american athletes have to want to play Soccer; currently they don't --

Till players like Lebron James, Reggie Bush and Carl Crawford choose soccer over baseball, football or basketball, the US will always be behind.

Is this a situation you see changing? (Because I don't. At least not in the forseeable future)

Millions upon millions of kids play youth soccer and many are playing in college but it seems to me our college soccer is on par qith our college tennis... Good but not on par with the kids who have come through the tennis/soccer academies that Pavy is referencing.

Doc

[Dirty Sanchez]

Doc that's another tough question, but maybe out goalkeeper Tim Howard could play for Netherlands squad, but other than that the only other possibility would be Landon Donovan, but I doubt it as the skills of both those teams are a few tiers above our players

[rico]

Doesnt sound like the american spirit? Just giving up like that. I mean Uruguay with a population of 3 milion made it to final four.

[pavyracer]

Doc another example is Spain (Barcelona). They were chronic underachievers relying on home grown coaches. In the late 80's they hired former Dutch player and world cup finalist Cruyff. He developed their youth academies and later other Dutch players who were playing for their adult team coached the youth academies. So the kids learned soccer from the best in the world.

We have to swallow our pride and admit we don't have american born ex-players and coaches to compete in the highest level and hire some ex-world cup players from other countries to develop our youth. Soccer high school coaches who never played soccer at the highest level will not develop youth talent.

[Doc JS]

not in our lifetime. On the other hand are no teams in the world able to match teams from NFL, NBA, WNBA or MLB.

Well...I certainly agree with the NFL, but disagree with MLB and the NBA. The World Baseball Classic and World Games/Olympics for basketball (not the best measures, I know) has shown that many other countries can play with us toe to toe.

But I agree with the basic premise that USA soccer does not get the best athletes.

Doc

[Karayilan9]

Doc,

Unless american parents send their children 8-16 years old into Europe and enroll into Manchester United, Barcelona, Ajax soccer academies full time you will never see top talent in US team. The players you saw competing today didn't go to high school. They were bread in the youth academies and played with the best of the best since they were 8 years old. They lived in dorms in the soccer youth academies and were "home" schooled there. All they did since they were 8 years old was play soccer 8 hrs a day. With the current system in the US being the HS, either private or public, and without foreign coaches we will never win the World Cup.

Good points!

Also, the US soccer federation need to either bring in coaches and the football thinkers of Western Europe and South America, especially Holland and France, or send coaches out their to learn.

They need the knowledge first, once they have this they can start working on their own style, tactics and developing talent. Teams like Barcelona, Ajax, Lyon etc have satellite clubs across the world scouting and signing up talent from places where all kids want to do is play the game, some of these kids are coming from poverty and have such a desire to win. It could be wise for the US soccer authorities to try and target the inner cities aswell.

The game will develop in the US, with the rapid rate its advancing in countries like Japan, Korea and Australia aswell its going to get very interesting in a few years.

[forsberg21]

Pavy, That was sorta what I thought... Followup question: How many of the USAs starting line-up would start for either Spain or Netherlands? Doc

Realistically, none.

Most of Spain's players play in the top leagues in Europe. David Villa's "rights" were just purchased for 40 million Euros by Barcelona, and that's on top of his 7 million Euro yearly salary. Same thing goes for The Netherlands as well, most of their top players for Europe's tops clubs.

[Flying Dutchman]

The Americans may play when they are kids, but get away from it when they are older. It will not play well on American TV which needs a lot of commercial breaks so it will not get any promotion by the industry. AND 0-0 or 1-0 games drive Americans crazy...it will not catch on.

...American's attention spans are about as long as JJ's dick.

[Sandro777]

I played soccer a lot when I was a kid and was pretty good. But for some reason my parents decided that I shouldn't plays soccer anymore and signed me up for basketball and baseball. I suck at basketball and was average at baseball. I COULD HAVE BEEN THE USA's SAVIOR!!!

[pavyracer]

I played soccer a lot when I was a kid and was pretty good. But for some reason my parents decided that I shouldn't plays soccer anymore and signed me up for basketball and baseball. I suck at basketball and was average at baseball. I COULD HAVE BEEN THE USA's SAVIOR!!!

Let me guess..Someone told your dad at work that you will turn gay if you keep playing soccer

[Dark Horse]

If they bring in Dutch coaches, like Hiddink, the development could be sped up. Spain now play like Holland. Of course Spain had the talent and the culture, but even so, at an international level they sucked until they adopted the Dutch school. I have no idea why the US think they can do it with US coaches.

[Jimmy0607]

Doesnt sound like the american spirit? Just giving up like that. I mean Uruguay with a population of 3 milion made it to final four.

But every kid in Uruguay plays soccer since they are 5

[cro]

Pavy,
That was sorta what I thought...

Followup question:
How many of the USAs starting line-up would start for either Spain or Netherlands?

Doc

none could even sit on the bench for spain

[cro]

not in our lifetime. On the other hand are no teams in the world able to match teams from NFL, NBA, WNBA or MLB.

lol no other countries have an NFL

For all other international sports other countries can hang with the USA and even win the tournament over them.

The Dream Team is the only big favourite.

[DolphinSpurs]

The soccer academy argument is not adequate. The Chinese and Soviet Russkies sent their kids to camps also yet Aamerican athletes beat them at gymnastics and figure skating constantly. I believe America may not win a world cup in the 20-25 tear window, but I am pretty sure they will get to a final or two in the next 5/6 world cups. We need someone like Hiddink or Klinsmann managing the US men's national team. They're world class experience will be enough to target players who can push the US team closer to the top. If we do get to host the world cup in 2022, I don't see how we do not make the final that year.

[forsberg21]

The soccer academy argument is not adequate. The Chinese and Soviet Russkies sent their kids to camps also yet Aamerican athletes beat them at gymnastics and figure skating constantly. I believe America may not win a world cup in the 20-25 tear window, but I am pretty sure they will get to a final or two in the next 5/6 world cups. We need someone like Hiddink or Klinsmann managing the US men's national team. They're world class experience will be enough to target players who can push the US team closer to the top. If we do get to host the world cup in 2022, I don't see how we do not make the final that year.

I just can't agree with a single thing that you've wrote here. These camps things about the Russkies, and the Chinese and the Americans is an apple and oranges generalization, if it's even true.

What is your prediction on the US getting to 1 or 2 finals based on? Do you know how many excellent teams didn't make the final in this year's World Cup? Brazil, Argentina and Germany didn't make the finals. What makes you think the US can even contend with teams like that?

Also, how is hosting the 2022 World Cup making you so convinced that the US cannot possible miss the finals in that particular World Cup? Should the US host World Cup 2022, many of the players that will play on that team are in their early teens right now. What kind of inside information can you possibly tell me about these teenagers that will convince me that "I don't see how we do not make the final that year."?

I don't want to sound like a cynical kunt, but this post of yours sounds just like an empty Obama euphemism that sounds nice and pretty when read, but has no factual basis behind it. If you think that the US is going to win one of the next 6 World Cups, you are banking the farm on blind hope.

[ronjon619]

The American youth sporting system is completly different for the rest of the world. The above poster mentioned youth camps. The Americans play their sport casually until their HS years. I'm sure soccer talent from Brazil has been scouted and tested throughly from a very young age. Every foreign player seems to come from a youth academy. Everyone from Pau Gasol, Yao Ming and Anna Kuornikova. You didn't catch Jordan at some full time B-ball academy when he was 11.

[nadal fan]

yeaahh ur so right..

[nadal fan]

soooo true..

[ZXCVBNM]

You are seeing a slow but steady development. Around 15 years ago the MLS started up.

This current 2006/10/14 generation will be full of internationals who started in MLS and transferred into Europe, biggest examples being Dempsey and Donovan. The rest are average-level European types that started in MLS, I think about 60% of this current squad.

Now that people have seen the Americans and learned they are not so bad, the bigger clubs will come knocking now. Dempsey has been linked to Milan, most players have offers on the table. The new generation is coming through MLS as we speak, guys like Danny Mwanga, Omar Gonzales, Tim Ream, Ike Opara, Andy Najar (maybe) - supplemented by these 15/16/17 year olds like Lletget, Gil, and that Hoffenheim duo I can't remember + others already in place at youth academies in big clubs most people except the most hardcore have heard of.

USA 2022 champions? Maybe

[maquina]

It is all true.

[ronjon619]

There was outdoor soccer when I was growing up The NASL. Those athletes growing up then did make the change to soccer. Donovan had a run in the Bundesliga but quit on that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Soccer_League

[nulldah]

my answer is this (no offense, just my opinion), US will have major chance at World Cup when you can admit soccer is bigger (or equal, at least) than your 4 major sports and MLS can make into "5 major sport leagues". Reason, if European clubs can grab major talents from South American like Ronaldo, Robinho, Kaka, Elano, Aguerro, Tevez, Mascherano, Forlan and the list go on and on, why cannot US grab such talents just like they grab talents for their MLB league, for example? You definitely have the cash to attract these players. You need these kind of players (not the old ones or semi-retired) to make the league competitive and player developing to the new level.

Or another easy way which is nearly impossible, do it Germans way, their local league can be considered the lowest rate of foreign players and there's not much nice soccer there, BUT, come Euro or World Cup, they will surprise everyone by going all the way to at least semifinal stage... How they do it? You need a "legend" type of player (like Jordan in NBA) that bring you the World Cup success, then followed by another legend or possibly another legend again (the longer, the better) doing the same thing until it become a mentality at player's mind that "going to world cup means we need to go to semifinal at least"

[ronjon619]

MLS plays in the summer when every major European team is in the off season. The MLS will never attract the best. They will always get the washed up European / S. American on his last wheels.

[nulldah]

MLS plays in the summer when every major European team is in the off season. The MLS will never attract the best. They will always get the washed up European / S. American on his last wheels.

which is why I say MLS need to be taken into major sport. As long as it stay like a mandatory kind of sport league (the rest of the world play this sport, we need to play it too), the national team wont stay a chance. Unless a legend is born among your people

[mihaita666]

my guess is that the fist team outside europe and south america to win the WC will be the USA

[forsberg21]

my guess is that the fist team outside europe and south america to win the WC will be the USA

If this guess turns out being right, you probably won't be alive to see it given that every single World Cup winner has been from either South America or Europe.

[Daveyboy]

Pavy,
That was sorta what I thought...

Followup question:
How many of the USAs starting line-up would start for either Spain or Netherlands?

Doc

Zero