Shadius is an underemployed grad of a TTTT law school most likely. Calm down guy, you're out of your league.
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And that has what to do with anything? Takes a real winner to rip on people who lost the law school lottery. Do you go down to the local school and laugh at all the kids in special ed? How about head to the projects and laugh at those people?
Also, those people that work at NLJ250 Vault firms aren't tools? That's good to know. With how smug your posts sound, you're clearly not a tool.Comment -
Law school admissions isn't a lottery, it's merit-based. Idgaf about kids with non T14 stats who go to non T14 schools and graduate in six-figure debt without jobs. But to answer your original questions; yea I do laugh at the special ed kids and the minorities in poverty, it's my favorite hobby.
Nah, the tool is the one arguing on a gambling forum that the reasoning of an Art. III D. Ct judge isn't sound.Originally posted by ShadiusComment -
Landing a NLJ 250 job is absolutely a lottery, even at the T14. Its even moreso a lottery at the top 50, do you think someone who goes to a top 50 law school, which makes it the top third of law schools, should be happy that they have a 10% chance of making that 160k? Do you think these kids are dumb? They generally have GPAs in the middle of the 3.0 range and an LSAT score in the 75th to 80th percentile. Do you think law school grading does not have a subjective element? Do you think that merit in undergraduate necessarily equates to merit in law school? Nevermind the fact that whether or not you make BigLaw is almost exclusively predicated on your 1L grades, so if you have one bad class, one semester, you're basically completely locked out of BigLaw. That doesn't sound like a lottery to you?
And yet you stated you can't find anything specifically wrong with my reasoning, so apparently there may be some merit to it. Just because someone is an article III judge doesn't make them inherently right, otherwise why would the court of appeals ever overturn a district court judge's decision? If they were always the same interpretation or always applied the law correctly in the view of higher courts we wouldn't need an appellate system in the first place. I would hope that someone who purports to be a BigLaw lawyer would know that much, if you're even that. The thread turned into a discussion about his reasoning, so I responded to it. Its called a discussion forum. You're the guy who, rather than contribute to the discussion, sees it fit to simply come in and throw an ad hominem attack out there. Probably because you're completely insecure in your life and derive pleasure from tearing other people down, even though most people just think you're a toolbag.Comment -
Eh, not really. Maybe at Suny-Ithaca and Georgetttown but most of the T14 gives you a pretty good shot at biglaw.
Not worth it to go to any school outside the T14 barring a few exceptions, so anyone who goes to a T50 deserves whatever they get.Originally posted by Shaudius
Ya good job bro. You're so delusional that you actually think you successfully rebutted a d. ct judge. Congrats.Originally posted by ShaudiusComment -
MOST give you a PRETTY GOOD shot. So now we're adding caveats to your blanket statement, which becomes less and less true as the years pass and there are less and less BigLaw slots due to various factors. None of this point actually refutes anything I said though. Boy, for someone who, as I said before, purports to be good enough for BigLaw your reasoning skills are pretty poor.
Oh, so its not okay for me to discuss on a gambling forum the ruling of a district court judge but its perfectly fine for you to be the judge of what thousands of people who graduate law school each year deserve for their monetary and time expenditure? But as far as the actual substance of your argument. Was this always true? What about the people who went to law schools that intentionally lied about their admission scores to boost their US News ranking? What about those that went before law schools were required to list as much data as they are now about placement? Are those people equally culpable? What about the people who went before the rise of the scam blogs? Are you only referring to people who go now? Or people who went in the past?
And as I said above you're so delusional as to think that you're the arbiter of what people deserve and don't deserve. I'm read some of your other posts on this forum and from them I can see that you have some pretty severe issues(including some blatant racism, stuff that if your supposed BigLaw firm found out you'd probably be fired on the spot), so it doesn't surprise me that you think that those T50 kids got what they deserved.
Beyond that where do you think that I've said that I've successfully rebutted a District Court judge? All I've said is that his reasoning doesn't look sound or seem to follow the established law and would probably not hold up on appeal. Again, you seems to find nothing factually incorrect about what I've said, but you seem pretty convinced about your own self righteousness, so you'll never be able to see far enough out of your own ass to realize that I'm right about any of this.Comment -
LOL. I never made any "blanket statement" you dumbass. Please quote me where I said that all T14s give you a pretty good shot at biglaw. My original statement was that I have no sympathy for kids that go to non-T14s, I never said anything about all T14s have a pretty good shot at biglaw.
It's pretty obvious you're a TTTT grad. So which TTTT forum do you post at? xoxo or jdu? It's obviously not TLS. Splended A+ riveting argument against a straw man though. Soooo impressive.
You want me to feel sympathy for kids who didn't do enough research to find out that going to a non T14 is a ticket to debt slavery? No, I don't have any sympathy for them. Some due diligence is necessary before dropping 200k on a legal education.What about the people who went to law schools that intentionally lied about their admission scores to boost their US News ranking? What about those that went before law schools were required to list as much data as they are now about placement? Are those people equally culpable? What about the people who went before the rise of the scam blogs? Are you only referring to people who go now? Or people who went in the past?
Go back to jdu now to whine about usnews and how you hate doc review so much.
Nice to know you have the support of chiarchie and extrainnings, the most notorious ghosts on the forums.
ETA: Protip- try synthesizing your arguments. You say in several pages what most can say in a few paragraphs.Comment -
You said, "Law school admissions isn't a lottery, it's merit-based. Idgaf about kids with non T14 stats who go to non T14 schools and graduate in six-figure debt without jobs." So its not a proper characterization in your mind to read this statement in the converse that you're saying that T14s have a good shot at a good job?(the only of which in the law is BigLaw otherwise you're just unemployed, underemployed or in shit law). What exactly were you saying about the T14 other than they were automatically gonna get good jobs as opposed to non-T14 grads with your statement?
Again with this? What does that matter? You again fail to answer any of my points in refutation of your points. Instead you keep bringing up this "ooooh TTTTer where do you post" statement as if its somehow supposed to scare me into backing off about calling you out on your utter bullshit and crappy arguments. Does bullying people about their credentials work well in BigLaw for you? It seems to be what you keep going back to. It didn't seem to come up when I was working in BigLaw, but maybe its changed in the last few years, it was certainly a big deal where you went to school, but its not something that people rubbed your face in every five seconds like you seem to be doing.
And this was well known 5 years ago? 4? 3? When did it become well known that going to a T50 law school was a ticket to debt slavery? When did it become an automatic ticket to debt slavery? You seem to think that the kid going to law school today when all this information is out there is the same as the kid going 5 or 10 years ago when schools were playing more hide the ball with employment and salary statistics, and the job market wasn't so bad(but then the economy tanked and they got squeezed).
I don't do doc review. I have a great job that doesn't crush my soul or force me to work 80 hours a week and cause me to become extremely bitter and hateful toward the world like you seem to be. But who are we kidding, you're not in BigLaw. Based on the times you post on these forums you're probably some douchebag 1L at a T14 who thinks he's hot shit and has barely even gotten his 1L grades.Comment -
How can you possibly infer that?
- I said I don't care about kids who go to non T14s and graduate with debt and without jobs.
- You inferred that to mean that I also believe that all T14s give a pretty good shot at biglaw.
lol..
RC wasn't your strong suit on the LSAT, was it? 158 is my guesstimate for your score.
Except we're talking about today, we're not talking about 5 or 10 years ago. It doesn't take more than a couple hours of internet research to figure out that going to most law schools is a losing proposition. I don't feel sorry for kids that go to TTTs and go into huge debt with the hopes of being a big-shot trial lawyer. There's just no excuse for such romanticism of the legal world with all the information available today.And this was well known 5 years ago? 4? 3? When did it become well known that going to a T50 law school was a ticket to debt slavery? When did it become an automatic ticket to debt slavery? You seem to think that the kid going to law school today when all this information is out there is the same as the kid going 5 or 10 years ago when schools were playing more hide the ball with employment and salary statistics, and the job market wasn't so bad(but then the economy tanked and they got squeezed).
Hahahaha. The rationalizations from the jdu trolls are hilarious. I bet you're extremely happy.I don't do doc review. I have a great job that doesn't crush my soul or force me to work 80 hours a week and cause me to become extremely bitter and hateful toward the world like you seem to be.
First part is right, second part is wrong.But who are we kidding, you're not in BigLaw. Based on the times you post on these forums you're probably some douchebag 1L at a T14 who thinks he's hot shit and has barely even gotten his 1L grades.Comment -
Okay lets break it down, since your superior logical reasoning skills are apparently not good enough to understand what I am saying. You said, "Law school isn't a lottery". which you further clarify by saying a statement that you in effect think it is merit based, the better your merit the better school you get into. That's fine, but you also say kids who go to a non-T14 and, "graduate with debt and without jobs." This statement implies that you believe a different thing about the T14 then you do about the rest of the schools. Either you believe that T14 students are different because they graduate without debt, or they graduate with jobs or both. It's implicit in the statement. I made the logical leap that you don't mean no debt, because obviously law school is expensive even in the T14, and some students will inherently have to pay, most likely the same proportion of students outside of the T14. So I figured you probably didn't mean that, but instead meant than those in the T14 had jobs. Otherwise why include the graduate without jobs part? I also made the assumption that you meant good jobs, well paying jobs, of which in law the basically only kind of those there are that can properly service the average debt load of the law student is BigLaw. This suspesion was backed up by the fact that your previous comment was "You just sound like the typical xoxo/jdunderground TTTT grad working at a non-NLJ250 non-Vault shit law firm with six-figure debt and a non-six-figure job." This sounded to me like more dichotomous statement with regard to salary, unless you really believe that T14 students graduate with less debt than TTT students, this led me to my conclusion that you believe that T14 students get good jobs that can service their debt(BigLaw) and TTT students get jobs that cannot service their debt(shitlaw), do doc review, or are unemployed.
So my question then becomes, do you have no sympathy for T14 grads who graduate with massive debt but do not get BigLaw and therefore do not have the money to service that debt? Because frankly the only jobs that can truly service law school debt are BigLaw jobs, unless you're talking about IBR servicing.
Furthermore you seem to think that my statement that "law school is a lottery" implies that I mean law school admission, when I was equally talking about law school admission(unless you think that a certain score will guarantee you admission to a certain school automatically, which might be true but for most people it is not the case that they will be competitive for everywhere they apply or even get in everywhere where they are competitive) as well as law school itself. You point about the T14 admission doesn't answer the fact that landing the BigLaw job out of law school is a lottery even at the T14 these days(within the last 5-10 years), and that if you don't make BigLaw chances are good your ROI is extremely negative.
So you want me to imply a today into your statements about graduating, when the people who graduated today entered law school three years ago but you don't want me to imply what you meant about BigLaw? Got it, I should only imply what you meant not the logical inferences of what you think you meant to say. Remember, we're talking about JDUnderground/xoxo people, who if they're on JDU after graduating means that they started law school in 2008 at the latest, so why are we talking about the situation today? Shouldn't we be talking about the situation 4 or 5 years ago, or 10 or whenever these hypothetical students were doing their research about law school? Why are you holding people to the standard of today when they made their decision half a decade ago? My question was about you having sympathy for those people on JDUnderground, not if you have sympathy for the TTTer of today who is going to graduate in 2014 or beyond.
I am, happy enough that I can worry about this conversation on an internet forum on gambling, have enough money to go out when I want and service my debt(which I do have as does pretty much everyone who graduates college these days) all while working a 40 hour week.
If you're not in BigLaw, and were never in BigLaw(not sure about that one), that you probably have no idea how it is. But then again, if you were never in BigLaw unless you either had a substantial scholarship or went to school decades ago(which I doubt on both counts, especially if you actually went to a T14) you're probably heavily indebted with a job that doesn't pay you enough to properly service that debt(unless you're IBRing), so it seems kind of silly for you to be throwing stones at someone who you think is a TTTTer, JDUndergrounder, Doc Reviewer when your own situation probably isn't that much better than that hypothetical person. So unless you did BigLaw for a couple years and then got out, you're probably just some hypocrite with a massive debt load and a middling job, or you couldn't hack it(knew that it sucked) in BigLaw. I'm still leaning toward you being a lying 1L.Comment -
Holy shit dude what's with the novellas every time you write an argument? Try condensing.
Yep.
All pathetic assumptions not even worth a response. You're arguing against shit I never said.That's fine, but you also say kids who go to a non-T14 and, "graduate with debt and without jobs." This statement implies that you believe a different thing about the T14 then you do about the rest of the schools. Either you believe that T14 students are different because they graduate without debt, or they graduate with jobs or both. It's implicit in the statement. I made the logical leap that you don't mean no debt, because obviously law school is expensive even in the T14, and some students will inherently have to pay, most likely the same proportion of students outside of the T14. So I figured you probably didn't mean that, but instead meant than those in the T14 had jobs. Otherwise why include the graduate without jobs part? I also made the assumption that you meant good jobs, well paying jobs, of which in law the basically only kind of those there are that can properly service the average debt load of the law student is BigLaw. This suspesion was backed up by the fact that your previous comment was "You just sound like the typical xoxo/jdunderground TTTT grad working at a non-NLJ250 non-Vault shit law firm with six-figure debt and a non-six-figure job." This sounded to me like more dichotomous statement with regard to salary, unless you really believe that T14 students graduate with less debt than TTT students, this led me to my conclusion that you believe that T14 students get good jobs that can service their debt(BigLaw) and TTT students get jobs that cannot service their debt(shitlaw), do doc review, or are unemployed.
No, I don't have any sympathy for them either.So my question then becomes, do you have no sympathy for T14 grads who graduate with massive debt but do not get BigLaw and therefore do not have the money to service that debt? Because frankly the only jobs that can truly service law school debt are BigLaw jobs, unless you're talking about IBR servicing.
Ok.Furthermore you seem to think that my statement that "law school is a lottery" implies that I mean law school admission, when I was equally talking about law school admission(unless you think that a certain score will guarantee you admission to a certain school automatically, which might be true but for most people it is not the case that they will be competitive for everywhere they apply or even get in everywhere where they are competitive) as well as law school itself.
It's not a lottery but it's not automatic either. I think HYS is automatic biglaw, CCN is very good chance of biglaw barring bottom quarter and social aspies, MVPBDCNG is more iffy but still a decent shot. I'd pay sticker at HYS but I'd have to have a hefty scholarship to go to any other T14. I think we basically agree on this.You point about the T14 admission doesn't answer the fact that landing the BigLaw job out of law school is a lottery even at the T14 these days(within the last 5-10 years), and that if you don't make BigLaw chances are good your ROI is extremely negative.
Half a decade ago the internet existed. Forums like TLS, LSD, xoxo, and jdu were warning that law school is a ticket to debt slavery back five years ago. A decade ago poential law applicants didn't have as much internet resources so they have somewhat of an excuse.So you want me to imply a today into your statements about graduating, when the people who graduated today entered law school three years ago but you don't want me to imply what you meant about BigLaw? Got it, I should only imply what you meant not the logical inferences of what you think you meant to say. Remember, we're talking about JDUnderground/xoxo people, who if they're on JDU after graduating means that they started law school in 2008 at the latest, so why are we talking about the situation today? Shouldn't we be talking about the situation 4 or 5 years ago, or 10 or whenever these hypothetical students were doing their research about law school? Why are you holding people to the standard of today when they made their decision half a decade ago? My question was about you having sympathy for those people on JDUnderground, not if you have sympathy for the TTTer of today who is going to graduate in 2014 or beyond.
Ok cool.I am, happy enough that I can worry about this conversation on an internet forum on gambling, have enough money to go out when I want and service my debt(which I do have as does pretty much everyone who graduates college these days) all while working a 40 hour week.
Lol, terrible psychoanalysis. I'm in ug right now. I'm leaning towards HYS or bust, or maybe a huge scholarship at another T14.If you're not in BigLaw, and were never in BigLaw(not sure about that one), that you probably have no idea how it is. But then again, if you were never in BigLaw unless you either had a substantial scholarship or went to school decades ago(which I doubt on both counts, especially if you actually went to a T14) you're probably heavily indebted with a job that doesn't pay you enough to properly service that debt(unless you're IBRing), so it seems kind of silly for you to be throwing stones at someone who you think is a TTTTer, JDUndergrounder, Doc Reviewer when your own situation probably isn't that much better than that hypothetical person. So unless you did BigLaw for a couple years and then got out, you're probably just some hypocrite with a massive debt load and a middling job, or you couldn't hack it(knew that it sucked) in BigLaw. I'm still leaning toward you being a lying 1L.Comment
