US default could be disastrous choice for economy

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  • Scorpion
    SBR Hall of Famer
    • 09-04-05
    • 7797

    #1
    US default could be disastrous choice for economy
    US default could be disastrous choice for economy
    The latest news and headlines from Yahoo News. Get breaking news stories and in-depth coverage with videos and photos.


    TOM RAUM, Associated Press Tom Raum, Associated Press – Sat Apr 23, 11:44 pm ET
    WASHINGTON – The United States has never defaulted on its debt and Democrats and Republicans say they don't want it to happen now. But with partisan acrimony running at fever pitch, and Democrats and Republicans so far apart on how to tame the deficit, the unthinkable is suddenly being pondered.
    The government now borrows about 42 cents of every dollar it spends. Imagine that one day soon, the borrowing slams up against the current debt limit ceiling of $14.3 trillion and Congress fails to raise it. The damage would ripple across the entire economy, eventually affecting nearly every American, and rocking global markets in the process.
    A default would come if the government actually failed to fulfill a financial obligation, including repaying a loan or interest on that loan. The government borrows mostly by selling bonds to individuals and governments, with a promise to pay back the amount of the bond in a certain time period and agreeing to pay regular interest on that bond in the meantime.
    Among the first directly affected would likely be money-market funds holding government securities, banks that buy bonds directly from the Federal Reserve and resell them to consumers, including pension and mutual funds; and the foreign investor community, which holds nearly half of all Treasury securities.
    If the U.S. starts missing interest or principal payments, borrowers would demand higher and higher rates on new bonds, as they did with Greece, Portugal and other heavily indebted nations. Who wants to keep loaning money to a deadbeat nation that can't pay its bills?
    At some point, the government would have to slash spending in other areas to make room for any further sales of Treasury bills and bonds. That could squeeze payments to federal contractors, and eventually even affect Social Security and other government benefit payments, as well as federal workers' paychecks.
    A default would likely trigger another financial panic like the one in 2008 and plunge an economy still reeling from high joblessness and a battered housing market back into recession. Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke calls failure to raise the debt limit "a recovery-ending event." U.S. stock markets would likely tank — devastating roughly half of U.S. households that own stocks, either individually or through 401(k) type retirement programs.
    Eventually, the cost of most credit would rise — from business and consumer loans to home mortgages, auto financing and ************.
    Continued stalemate could also further depress the value of the dollar and challenge the greenback's status as the world's prime "reserve currency."
    China and other countries that now hold about 50 percent of all U.S. Treasury securities could start dumping them, further pushing up interest rates and swelling the national debt. It would be a vicious cycle of higher and higher interest rates and more and more debt.
    The U.S. has long been the global standard for financial stability and creditworthiness, with Treasury securities seen as a fail-safe investment. But after the near-shutdown of the U.S. government and a new credit-rating report this week questioning the country's fiscal health, Treasury bills and bonds are losing luster.
    If there is a debt limit deadlock, the government by this summer could find itself legally unable to borrow more money to pay its bills, beginning with interest on its debt and gradually extending to day-to-day federal operations. At some point, the government would have to decide which bills to pay and which to put aside.
    The debt ceiling will be hit on or around May 16, the Treasury Department says. Unlike the threatened government shutdown, the impact would start slowly, but then build mightily until the damage would be so dire that few political leaders or economists even want to contemplate it. The day of reckoning could likely be delayed at least until early July with creative bookkeeping.
    When the House first rejected the Bush administration's $600-billion bank bailout in September 2008, the Dow Jones industrials went into a dizzying 778-point tailspin. A whiff of a possible similar stock market collapse came on Monday with a sharp selloff on Wall Street when the Standard & Poors lowered its outlook on U.S. debt to "negative" from "stable," possibly a first step toward a possible downgrade of America's coveted AAA credit rating.
    "We haven't downgraded it. We just said, if nothing happens, we may have to," said S&P chief economist David Wyss. He said a government default remains uncharted territory, "which is one reason why it's not a good idea to hit the debt ceiling."
    "There's reason to worry," said Wyss. "But my best guess is that we sort of muddle through this. Cuts will be made, they'll be too little too late, but at least they will be enough to maintain a triple-A rating."
    "It's another game of chicken. And this time there are Mack trucks going at each other, not bumper cars. This is a biggie," said American University political scientist James Thurber. But he predicted that, as in the past, "there will be an accommodation. They will avoid a crash."
    Investment bank J.P. Morgan Chase recently concluded that any delay in making an interest or principal payments by the Treasury "even for a very short period of time" would have large "long-term adverse consequences for Treasury finances and the U.S. economy." The analysis is being circulated on Capitol Hill by supporters of raising the debt limit.
    "If anyone wants to push that button, which I think would be catastrophic and unpredictable, I think they're crazy," JP Morgan CEO Jaime Dimon said recently of those seeking to block raising the debt limit.
    House Speaker John Boehner and most other GOP leaders agree on the need to raise the debt limit — and don't want to be held responsible for a new financial meltdown. Still, they want Obama to make more concessions on spending cuts than he has done thus far. That isn't sitting well with liberal Democrats, who think Obama has already given too much ground.
    One reason the two parties can't find common ground: they can't even agree on what's causing high deficits. Democrats mostly blame it on policies of George W. Bush: two wars, tax cuts that continue to benefit the wealthy and an expensive prescription drug program. Republicans see government spending as the culprit, particularly on Obama's watch.
    In fact, the main reason is the deep recession, which slashed tax revenues and led to hundreds of billions of dollars in recession-fighting spending by both Bush and Obama. The debt was $9 trillion in late 2007 before the start of the Great Recession, and it's just a sliver under the $14.3 trillion limit today.
    Even though GOP leaders say they want to avoid more economic chaos, there is a large crop of tea-party aligned Republicans threatening to refuse to raise the cap under almost any circumstance. Polls suggest a large percentage of Americans oppose raising the debt limit.
    The debt limit has been raised ten times over the past decade. Obama voted against Bush's debt-limit increase in 2006 as a senator, accusing Bush of "a leadership failure." Obama recently apologized for "making what is a political vote as opposed to doing what was important for the country."
  • falconticket
    SBR MVP
    • 09-05-10
    • 3414

    #2
    Stop the spending. Too much BS programs. Trillions. Like studys to see if rabbits Fuk in the dark or not. Thousands of programs.
    Comment
    • big joe 1212
      SBR Posting Legend
      • 06-01-08
      • 19380

      #3
      Our superpower status will be ending soon!

      We live like kings all on borrowed funds!
      Comment
      • trixtrix
        Restricted User
        • 04-13-06
        • 1897

        #4
        lol @ congress fails to up the ceiling and forcing fed gov't into default and thereby outting themselves out of pay and jobs, yea that will happen, sensation journalism at its best
        Comment
        • kiln
          Restricted User
          • 08-29-10
          • 830

          #5
          This is what happens when the largest, most profitable companies in the world pay no taxes.

          1) Exxon Mobil made $19 billion in profits in 2009. Exxon not only paid no federal income taxes, it actually received a $156 million rebate from the IRS, according to its SEC filings.

          2) BkofAma received a $1.9 billion tax refund from the IRS last year, although it made $4.4 billion in profits and received a bailout from the Federal Reserve and the Treasury Department of nearly $1 trillion.

          3) Over the past five years, while General Electric made $26 billion in profits in the United States, it received a $4.1 billion refund from the IRS.

          4) Chevron received a $19 million refund from the IRS last year after it made $10 billion in profits in 2009.

          5) Boeing, which received a $30 billion contract from the Pentagon to build 179 airborne tankers, got a $124 million refund from the IRS last year.

          6) Valero Energy, the 25th largest company in America with $68 billion in sales last year received a $157 million tax refund check from the IRS and, over the past three years, it received a $134 million tax break from the oil and gas manufacturing tax deduction.

          7) Goldman Sachs in 2008 only paid 1.1 percent of its income in taxes even though it earned a profit of $2.3 billion and received an almost $800 billion from the Federal Reserve and U.S. Treasury Department.

          8) Citigroup last year made more than $4 billion in profits but paid no federal income taxes. It received a $2.5 trillion bailout from the Federal Reserve and U.S. Treasury.

          9) ConocoPhillips, the fifth largest oil company in the United States, made $16 billion in profits from 2007 through 2009, but received $451 million in tax breaks through the oil and gas manufacturing deduction.

          10) Over the past five years, Carnival Cruise Lines made more than $11 billion in profits, but its federal income tax rate during those years was just 1.1 percent.
          Comment
          • Poster X
            SBR High Roller
            • 07-09-10
            • 236

            #6
            wouldn't they just refinance the debt like the LBOs do?
            Comment
            • Wrecktangle
              SBR MVP
              • 03-01-09
              • 1524

              #7
              The Repubs and the Taliban/Spanish Inquisition Tea-party wing of their party thinks this is a cool thing to do. But hey after you've wrecked not only your economy but that of most of the non-asian world, finding a equally suitable economy-trashing encore is a hard thing to do.

              Is Mandarin hard to learn?
              Comment
              • RubberKettle
                SBR Hall of Famer
                • 12-28-09
                • 6421

                #8
                Cowboy poet society.
                Comment
                • MadTiger
                  SBR MVP
                  • 04-19-09
                  • 2724

                  #9
                  Originally posted by falconticket
                  Stop the spending. Too much BS programs. Trillions. Like studys to see if rabbits Fuk in the dark or not. Thousands of programs.
                  The first one of those I heard about years ago was the one about cow farts/methane, and how significant of an impact they make on the green house effect, etc. Now, there is a little need for that info, but not millions and millions of dollars worth.
                  Comment
                  • Doug
                    SBR Hall of Famer
                    • 08-10-05
                    • 6324

                    #10
                    Our superpower status will be ending soon!

                    We live like kings all on borrowed funds!

                    well we still have the weapons to win WW3 and take over the world.... like we should have done after WW2
                    Comment
                    • King Mayan
                      SBR Posting Legend
                      • 09-22-10
                      • 21326

                      #11
                      All these paranoid fukks around here
                      Comment
                      • Cookie Monster
                        SBR MVP
                        • 12-05-08
                        • 2251

                        #12
                        It is a lose-lose situaction. Both sides are playing chicken game, I am sure one side will bulge at the last minute, reaching a compromise to save face.
                        Comment
                        • kiln
                          Restricted User
                          • 08-29-10
                          • 830

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Cookie Monster
                          I am sure one side will bulge at the last minute...
                          Comment
                          • Tomahawk
                            SBR Sharp
                            • 04-24-10
                            • 358

                            #14
                            I'm glad I don't have a single cent debt to pay to anybody. I think China will be the next Superpower.
                            Comment
                            • pico
                              BARRELED IN @ SBR!
                              • 04-05-07
                              • 27321

                              #15
                              us cannot default
                              Comment
                              • pico
                                BARRELED IN @ SBR!
                                • 04-05-07
                                • 27321

                                #16
                                they can just let fed keep buying bonds with few computer strokes
                                Comment
                                • Emily_Haines
                                  SBR Posting Legend
                                  • 04-14-09
                                  • 15917

                                  #17
                                  America is done
                                  Comment
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