Ty! (I still kinda regret my stupid mistake lol)
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I hear you on that. I made a mistake(I'm nearly certain this was a mistake but I'm curious to how you guys would have played this) in one of my current Round 3 games vs urantian and I realized it shortly after and I was pretty sure it was going to cost me the game and likely the tournament. So... for the rest of the game I was beating myself up over this one stupid mistake. But fortunately for me... urantian made a couple of blunders of his own later on and I was able to pull off the win.
Here's the position...
How would you guys have played this?
It always sucks when you make a mistake and then you realize it was a mistake and it cost you the game... especially when it's a tournament game.Last edited by JohnGalt2341; 04-25-21, 01:07 PM.Comment -
Not so many options but probably better to play in the right upper section. It seemed like an easy game for urantian up to that point. Glad you were able to turn it around!Comment -
Okay... so... this one is for Biggest Single Game Point Victory. blanko takes this one for his 74 point victory in his 82-8 win over Daniel in the game below.In this tourney I plan on giving out 100 point bonuses for various reasons. So far... some that I have in mind include...
Biggest Single Game Upset(Ian is the frontrunner)
Most Impressive 2 Game Sweep(total point victory)
Most Impressive 2 Game Sweep(because the opponent is so good)
Best Comeback(positioning comeback, not piece count)
Biggest Single Game Point Victory(resignations or timeouts will not qualify)
Most Impressive Move
Fastest Tap Out
If there are any others you guys would like to see, let me know!
Points paid in post #101.Comment -
Fastest Tap OutIn this tourney I plan on giving out 100 point bonuses for various reasons. So far... some that I have in mind include...
Biggest Single Game Upset(Ian is the frontrunner)
Most Impressive 2 Game Sweep(total point victory)
Most Impressive 2 Game Sweep(because the opponent is so good)
Best Comeback(positioning comeback, not piece count)
Biggest Single Game Point Victory(resignations or timeouts will not qualify)
Most Impressive Move
Fastest Tap Out
If there are any others you guys would like to see, let me know!
This goes to blanko in his game vs Britt in Round 1 after move #17.
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Well guys... Round 3 is over and I got knocked out by Toptal.
Toptal (winner) 6 4 1.50 §Holden2341 4 4 1.00 §urantian 2 4 0.50
Here are the new point standings:
1. DanielEspinosa 20
2. JohnGalt2341 19
3. blankoblanco 16
So this final Round is worth 4 points. So... I'm not sure how this is going to work.
But anyway, since I got knocked out I'm going to put out some bounties in the Ladder to try to keep you guys motivated to stay sharp until the Tourney is over before I organize another one.
So, I've been trying to teach my brother how to play Hexversi but his brain works very different than mine. But anyway, so I had an idea of how to maybe attract some VERY GOOD Othello players to Hexversi while teaching my brother Hexversi at the same time.
It involves the Hexversi Challenges I used to make for you guys. I've improved upon them. I would have told you guys sooner but I was hoping to attract some stronger Othello players to the Ladder but I figured if I told you they were strong Othello players it might change the way you played them like it did with me.
I've only been able to get two to join the Ladder so far. They are Jan C and RCCH. Jan C is REALLY good. His openings are killing me. I'm 2-4 vs him right now but 2 of the losses were because I never made it past the opening and another was a late game blunder in a game I was definitely going to win, or else I would be 3-3. But I can tell his side-play is where he can be beat. But his openings are really slick in some games. It's like kryptonite for me. We're in the middle of a match right now. I'm pretty sure we will split.
Here's Jan's profile at World Othello https://www.worldothello.org/ratings...DE+GRAAF+Jan+C
So... here is how I am going to do the bounty on Jan for the Ladder. You have 5 chances to win points. Your first chance is worth 500 points and your 2nd is worth 400 points and so on... until your last chance is worth 100. You can win more than once. I will have the same offer with RCCH except with him your first game will start with 300 points instead of 500 and you only get 3 chances with RCCH. I've played RCCH 13 games already. Around half were speed games. He's beat me 3 games already. He's really good. But now I have sort laid off the the speed games now that I know he's a really good player.
And this is retro-active so.... blanko... just acknowledge that you have seen this post and I'll pay your next post for your wins.
I'm playing this player as well https://www.worldothello.org/ratings...=mario+madrona
He's ranked higher than Jan at World Othello. I beat him in our first game. We are playing a match right now. I am nearly certain I will win at least one game for sure and our other game is pretty close. His style is much more similar to my own so it's easier for me to deal with I think. I would like to get him to join the Ladder as well but I think his English is sort of broken and he moves slow... and I don't want him pressure him. But he would probably play you in a game if you guys are interested. I think he's one of the main guys that runs the site https://www.eothello.com/. I am hoping they will pick up Hexversi.
But anyway... Nice work on beating Jan, blanko!! It gave me some much needed confidence in my rematch with him and we split in our rematch after he beat me in our first game.
Last edited by JohnGalt2341; 05-28-21, 10:23 PM.Comment -
Also... I should mention... you can win more than once. So... blanko... you beat Jan in your first game... so that's 500 points. If you beat him in your next game that is worth 400 points. And if you beat RCCH in your next Ladder game that will be worth 200 points. And Daniel... if you beat Jan in your current game with him you will win 500 points.
Last edited by JohnGalt2341; 05-28-21, 09:37 PM.Comment -
I was wondering why this Jan C guy came out of nowhere and was kicking my as*s
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I forgot to mention to make your pick for Round 4. They are currently about halfway through their games right now. Toptal is looking pretty strong but crazier things have happened. If they should happen to split, it would go to a 5th Round, in which case Round 5 would be worth 5 points and blanko could make up his 4 point deficit.Comment -
Toptal!Comment -
Ah, guess I'm picking WHUFC then!Comment -
Awesome, thanks!!
I started to sense a bit after the early game that Jan was a really strong player, then looked at his game history and was shocked to see him beating you.
I would wager that he's a favorite over me, the win may have even been a total fluke, but I managed to find a bit of a weird line to pull it out. He even referred to it as a swindleComment -
I managed to sweep Jan in our current match that I think will finish today.
But in our previous match I made another late game blunder that cost me one of the games and he swept me in both of those games. Boy... Jan doesn't let you get away with ANYTHING. This guy is REALLY good. I'm still only 4-6 against him after these game are done. But I think I'm starting to get used to his openings now.
It's looking like Toptal and WHUFC are going to split. Toptal has a Ladder game going with Jan as well and it looks like Jan is going to win that one as well. Boy... Jan is good. I'm really hoping he joins the next tourney. I'm curious to see if anyone else can crack him. So far it's just blanko and myself.Comment -
I'm curious John, how much do you think "play style" factors into Hexversi? Because in a lot of strategy games I think you can have your own style but sometimes there's more just a matter of what's correct vs. what's incorrect
It seems to me that Daniel's play style is much better suited to competing with you than mine is, based on results. But also that my play style is somehow pretty good against him (not counting our first few games when he dominated me). Oh, and maybe I play worse against you because I'm intimidated!
That being said, if you've looked at enough of my games, you would probably see that I quite frankly win most of them by taking advantage of mistakes that you wouldn't make. But of course that could lead to me playing worse against you or other good players if I just assume you'll never make a mistake when you actually might! It's confoundingLast edited by blankoblanco; 06-13-21, 01:55 PM.Comment -
I have a theory about all of this that I call "Hexversi Hand". It basically works like this... in order to beat players like Jan, Toptal and myself you can't play us scared because if you do, then your chances of beating us is almost non-existent. I first REALLY noticed this with WHUFC. I used to play him regularly a few years back. In our first few games he nearly beat me several times but he would always come up short... but just BARELY. But after several games I could tell he started playing me scared. I could feel it. He finally beat me some games but his record vs me now is 4-50 and we stopped playing a couple of years back. But if he didn't play me scared so many games I think he would probably have AT LEAST 10 to 20 wins against me if not more. Up until the current Tournament... I'm the only player WHUFC has ever played in Hexversi. He's 14-0 in the current tourney as of right now... I don't think he's playing the other players scared.... only me.
I also noticed this with Marinella. Same thing with her. In our first few games... she nearly beat me several games. Then she started playing me scared. She's 0-32 vs me. I would say... probably 25 or so of those games she's played fairly scared. She's played other players but she timed out her other games in the tourney except her 2 games against you when you were brand new. Take a look at her Reversi stats some time... she's a really good player.
I've also noticed this with myself. After going undefeated in the Ladder in 2020 and winning those last 2 tournaments I was starting to think I was invincible. But then I lost a couple of back to back losses at the end of March in the Ladder and another in early April. And then I lost some regular Hexversi games to both RCCH and Jan in April as well... and now it was ME that was playing scared. But... it was mostly just to Jan because I couldn't deal with his openings at all and I already knew he was a well accomplished Othello player before I ever played him. But... I was second guessing myself... in A LOT of my games.
So... here's the thing about "Hexversi Hand". Some players are more vulnerable to it than others. Daniel seems practically immune to it. It's rather incredible really. urantian as well, I can tell he's not intimated by me. At least it doesn't feel like he is. Even Toptal feels vulnerable to Hexversi Hand. There was a time for a while there where I felt like I was really bullying him. He caught me at a good time there though when he swept me recently in this current tourney... any Hexversi Hand I had over him... is now likely gone or mostly gone. Toptal is pretty hard to intimidate though.
Sweeping Jan just now... is HUGE for me... because now I feel like I have HAND over him... even though I am 4-6 against him. But now I feel like I can get through his openings and I feel like my endgame is stronger than his... and I think even he knows this.
So... my only advice is... just try to play everyone with confidence because... if you don't play the strong players with confidence it's nearly impossible to beat them. When I saw that you beat Jan... that was HUGE for me because I knew that it meant that I could beat him too. Yeah... this game is a real mindfukk in more ways than one. I told RCCH about my Hexversi Hand theory... Jan is really messing with his head as well... he's got some major Hand over him. I'm really hoping you and Daniel can take down Jan in the weeks and months to come. I'm hoping we can put Hexversi on the map and hopefully create some buzz out there in the Othello world.Last edited by JohnGalt2341; 06-13-21, 04:47 PM.Comment -
I just looked up my history with WHUFC. Those first 10 games or so... so many of them were so close. I won the first 25 games we played. So... every time I played him, it felt like it was chipping away at his confidence a bit which made it harder for him to beat me because it's almost impossible to beat me if you don't play me with confidence. So... it's like every game I'm gaining Hand and he's losing Hand.
I must say though... both of you guys play with a lot of confidence(even against me, especially Daniel but blanko too especially in our last match) and I am very proud of you guys for that because... I don't really know if that is something that is teachable or not. But I will be happy to take credit for it lol....
Playing with confidence is often hard to put your finger on but I definitely know it when I see it. And I also know it when I don't see it. Sometimes I feel like giving my opponents a pep talk after a game. I used to tell WHUFC that he's probably a lot better than he thinks he is. I hope he believes me by now. I haven't played him in a long time now. I'm curious if I still have A LOT of Hand on him. I suspect that I do.Comment -
This was a really interesting read! Makes a ton of sense
It's funny, because I don't think I've ever really played Toptal scared. Maybe the first time but not much after that. And I think I might actually be 3-4 against him. Maybe 3-5? I just know I've beaten him twice in tournament and once on ladder
I for sure have had a bit of a mental block whenever I've played against you, hits my confidence a lot and makes me uncertain about every move. That last close game we had was the only one that I felt okay about, even though I might have missed a winning line down the stretch -- it was kinda complicated to figure out
It's an interesting thought, because I assume at the end of the day it's similar to modern chess where a computer program could calculate out all the best moves in every single situation. But that's also why I'm glad there's not a "Hexversi Solver" yet (as far as I know). Technology is great but it has definitely messed with some strategy games that should rely upon human brain powerComment -
Oh and my only other question, John, is did you sense you had Hexversi Hand over me? Especially in the games before the most recent one we played. I think that was the most confidently I played you, despite the loss
But yeah, I think I played pretty scared of you in most of our games. It's actually amusing to me if you sensed it from your end. Because damn, I felt it. I hope not to do that in the future!Comment -
A little bit I suppose. It's.... for me it's actually sort of something that I expect to feel with everyone. But usually I feel it the least in our first game. But since I taught you guys how to play I knew it was something different entirely but I could feel it.
But with you guys, I was telling my brother the thing I am so proud about with you guys is how you play with confidence because it's impossible to become good if you don't play with confidence. And so that was the thing I was really nervous about because I sort of feel like that's beyond my control but I will be happy to take credit for it of course... lol. And so... right of the gate you beating Toptal like that was really HUGE. I mean that's really incredible, because that takes A LOT of confidence. Especially, considering he just swept me and it looks he bounced back in that WHUFC game that I thought he was going to lose. He will definitely win the other one, and in the one below I think he's going to win as well:
I think he's going to win that one too so... he's going to win the tournament. If there were a Hexversi Hall of Fame Toptal would definitely be one of the top 3 people inducted into it. And now with you beating Jan, we're the only 2 that have beat him so far. And then with Daniel beating me twice. You guys definitely play with a lot of confidence.
I definitely believe in the Hexversi Hand theory. For me, getting those first couple of Wins over a player is huge. And I always like having the Last win as well. I've got 2 players right now that have Last Win on me. Toptal and Daniel. I'm coming after 'em both... but first I want to take down Jan to make it 3 straight, since we stopped playing regular games. I saw he had an opening in the Ladder and I took it.
So... it looks like this tourney will be over soon. I'm pretty stoked for the next one. I'll be curious to see how many strong regular Othello players I can manage to recruit. I am hoping I will be able to get at least a few to join. I should be able to get RCCH and Jan at least, maybe even Mario. But it's possible I could get like 10 or more. I have no idea how many people are lurking in on the Hexversi Daily Challenges.Last edited by JohnGalt2341; 06-18-21, 09:08 PM.Comment -
Toptal is an interesting player because I've seen him make a few blatant mistakes that I, in my own relative inexperience, wouldn't make, but I'm sure I also make mistakes that he wouldn't. It also seems like he has this x factor where he can turn it on and potentially shut the opponent out of anything they want to do. Maybe he's a sort of momentum or mood based player, I dunno. I'm still quite surprised he beat you in the tournament, John. But I'm probably biased since I can beat him and can't beat you
When do you expect the next tourney to be? Sounds like it might be the toughest one yet!Comment -
The Tournament has FINALLY finished and Toptal has won the Tournament as seen below.
Daniel won both the Tournament winner with Toptal(points paid, post #19) and the overall prediction points standings with 24(points paid, post #115). And blanko already won the most tourney Wins with 10(points paid, post#101). Congrats!
Great job in this tourney guys!Comment -
Yeah, I'm nearly certain there are things about playing the sides in Hexversi that we understand better than Toptal does. He plays at least 2 other sites including littlegolem and eOthello. I still play 6x6 at littlegolem but I only have 1 game going right now but I've played him at 10x10 there as well. And it feels like he's stronger than me at 10x10. I'm 1-2 vs him at 10x10. And I've played him a bunch of 6x6 Tourney games on IYT back in 2008 and 2009 and we are pretty close to even. I know he has FAR MORE regular Othello experience than I do so he probably understands a lot of things about Othello a lot better than I do. I only played briefly at eOthello and it's a WAY better site than IYT but they don't have 6x6 or Hexversi so I sort of stopped playing there.
Jan told me that most of the "serious" Othello players have something like 30 different openings memorized. I think that's one of the things that rubs me the wrong way about Othello. Back in 2006/2007 before Hexversi came out and I was still playing Othello, there was a player that I had never beat before and I suspected he was using a program. And then when Hexversi came out, it made so much more sense to me. And I knew FOR SURE nobody was cheating. Shortly after, I sort of quit playing regular Othello.
I stumbled across the video below a few months ago. Now I understand exactly why Hexversi makes more sense to me than regular Othello. I don't suppose I'll be able to convince the die hard Othello players though. I suspect I would just piss them off if I showed them this video. My favorite part of the video is 7:30ish until the end... that's the part that REALLY makes sense to me.
Btw... I DEFINITELY think you can beat me. You just haven't yet. But 5 tries is nothing really. And I don't even really count that first game so... it's really only 4 games. Just consider this... in 2020... I went on an 8-0 run(major Hand here) vs Toptal beating him in 4 Ladder games and 4 Tourney games. And he's definitely capable of beating me and he's probably my favorite player on IYT of all time.
As of right now... I am planning on organizing a new Tournament to start for next Tuesday, June 29th. I think this one is going to be a Main Tournament rather than a Fast tournament. A Fast one starts for tomorrow but it's sort of too late to organize that one now. The Fast ones are 28 hour time limits and the Main ones are 48 hour time limits. I don't think it's going to make that much of a difference as most players move every day anyway. If I wait for a Fast one to start I will have to wait an extra week to organize it. So... that's sort of the plan right now.Last edited by JohnGalt2341; 06-21-21, 02:08 PM.Comment -
Thanks! It will be a tough with these new guys playing!!Comment