God dammit I am fuking livid!!!!!!!!!

**downsouth** · 07-12-12, 10:47 AM

Why the min raise from middle position for almost half your stack? Why not push?

**tatddy** · 07-12-12, 11:05 AM

Yep terrible play by the OP. Clearly a very horrid way to lose the pot though.

**Emily_Haines** · 07-12-12, 11:17 AM

Originally posted by tatddy

Yep terrible play by the OP. Clearly a very horrid way to lose the pot though.

Yeah getting it in with the best hand is a terrible play. Where do you morons come from?

**tatddy** · 07-12-12, 12:13 PM

Originally posted by Emily_Haines

Yeah getting it in with the best hand is a terrible play. Where do you morons come from?

If you really want to stand behind that preflop play with a rag than you fail to understand the fundamentals of hold em. Last time i saw you bitching about a hand at a ring game you misplayed the hand as well.

Would you be making a thread and complaining if the bb called you with 10 8 and beat you as a 40/60 dog?

**downsouth** · 07-12-12, 12:48 PM

Obviously turn was brutal but were talking about preflop play.

**Emily_Haines** · 07-12-12, 02:16 PM

Originally posted by tatddy

If you really want to stand behind that preflop play with a rag than you fail to understand the fundamentals of hold em. Last time i saw you bitching about a hand at a ring game you misplayed the hand as well.

Would you be making a thread and complaining if the bb called you with 10 8 and beat you as a 40/60 dog?

Pretty easy to say after you can see the cards. The point of this thread was to show how I get fukked each and every day not for every .02 clown to come in here and tell me how I played the hand wrong.

**Emily_Haines** · 07-12-12, 02:52 PM

and BS on that T8 hand.

I bet 1/2 pot on flop with bottom set
and 1/2 pot on turn

When river paired board and horrible player led out, I move all in with my boat. Since when do we start flat calling bets on river with hands which are likely to be best? Maybe Phil Hellmuth plays that way but most players don't.

**downsouth** · 07-12-12, 04:12 PM

For someone who supposedly plays a lot of poker its fascinating how little you actually know about it.

**Emily_Haines** · 07-12-12, 04:15 PM

Originally posted by downsouth

For someone who supposedly plays a lot of poker its fascinating how little you actually know about it.

Despite getting fuked constantly I still have more poker badges than most people here including yourself.

**downsouth** · 07-12-12, 05:22 PM

So your saying then that you think the min raise for almost half your stack out of mid position with A9off is the right play?

**tatddy** · 07-12-12, 05:35 PM

Emily what's the point of SBR if it's not to enjoy people with similar interests, discuss strategy, and play around. We all have holes in our game. Clearly, one of yours is your bet sizing. Instead of complaining and being defensive take the constructive comments and use them to your advantage.

**Emily_Haines** · 07-12-12, 05:42 PM

Originally posted by tatddy

Emily what's the point of SBR if it's not to enjoy people with similar interests, discuss strategy, and play around. We all have holes in our game. Clearly, one of yours is your bet sizing. Instead of complaining and being defensive take the constructive comments and use them to your advantage.

Actually that bet size should look stronger than a jam but people here just don't think on the level.

**PAULYPOKER** · 07-12-12, 05:45 PM

You have bad luck Emily,the sooner you realize this the sooner you can begin to heal.................

**tatddy** · 07-12-12, 05:56 PM

Originally posted by Emily_Haines

Actually that bet size should look stronger than a jam but people here just don't think on the level.

So you consider yourself to be on a tertiary level of poker logic but your making such plays on a freeish/play poker site? Who's the fool then? Shouldn't you know that one of the most important fundamentals in poker is to understand how your opponents think/play and to react accordingly?

**Kaladarus** · 07-12-12, 06:04 PM

I'd give you advice, but I think this video explains it much better.

**Kaladarus** · 07-12-12, 06:09 PM

Also I think the min raise is fine here.

**borednaz** · 07-12-12, 06:26 PM

I hate to be on the side of tat & DS, but truthfully neither of them is wrong. You played it wrong. Your dealing with a free roll with bad blind structure & a known joke like level of suck outs, betting the min there is -ev. You start out with $4072, you commit 1600 which is about 39-40% of your stack for a MIN RAISE. Your pot committed with A9off..

Now I know at these levels its basically a shove fest, peoples ranges are huge here. You should of shoved period. Ireland more than likely would of not called with Q9 for a full 4k. Limping was probably not an option for you there, but I think you need to learn to re-evaluate your shove ranges and learn more about pot management.

I need to relearn that myself as I leave serious value on the tables because I play scared money on big hands & min bet or min repop when I think I have it but I'm to scared to go all in. This is the hole I'm working on.

**downsouth** · 07-12-12, 06:56 PM

Originally posted by Kaladarus

Also I think the min raise is fine here.

How is the min raise fine there. After he does it there is zero fold equity left in his hand. Min raise does nothing but entices the big blind to flat call (which he did)

If somebody shoves back at you odds are your beat you still have to call so why not shove pre and just hope to take down the blinds/antes. Which at that point would still increase your stack over 1500.

**Emily_Haines** · 07-12-12, 07:08 PM

Everyone misses the point of this thread and it's about how I get fukked all the time.

Just in this tournament alone

1] I call all in from short stack with AQ and lose to AK
2] I call all in from another short stack with AQ and lose to AK
3] I call all in from button with AK in big blind and lose to Q5
4] I get it all in 3 way pot with 99 against 77 & A2 and lose to A2 with a turn 2 and a river 2
5] I get it all in with A9 against Q9 on J99 flop and lose again

No one here has as much bad luck on this rigged site as me. It don't matter what I did because I was destined to lose this hand to the guy with a horseshoe up his ass the whole tournament. It's like I have this grey cloud hanging over my head every time I play. I have played over 1,000,000 hands live and never seen such ridiculous bullshit happen over such a short amount of hands.

**The Giant** · 07-12-12, 07:15 PM

Emily, are you Helmut?

**downsouth** · 07-12-12, 07:56 PM

Originally posted by Emily_Haines

Everyone misses the point of this thread and it's about how I get fukked all the time.

Just in this tournament alone

1] I call all in from short stack with AQ and lose to AK
2] I call all in from another short stack with AQ and lose to AK
3] I call all in from button with AK in big blind and lose to Q5
4] I get it all in 3 way pot with 99 against 77 & A2 and lose to A2 with a turn 2 and a river 2
5] I get it all in with A9 against Q9 on J99 flop and lose again

No one here has as much bad luck on this rigged site as me. It don't matter what I did because I was destined to lose this hand to the guy with a horseshoe up his ass the whole tournament. It's like I have this grey cloud hanging over my head every time I play. I have played over 1,000,000 hands live and never seen such ridiculous bullshit happen over such a short amount of hands.

1,000,000 hands so your saying you spent approx 4 years straight of your life playing live poker and you still have not figured out how to play mediocre hands in short time frame in tourneys when you have only 5 big blinds left.

Have you tried reading a book? I heard super system was a good one.

**daneblazer** · 07-12-12, 08:30 PM

A min raise is acceptable, but don't make a thread about it when you're call by a big stack in the blinds and lose.

Now SBR Badges are a measure of how good one is at poker now? I'm sure Phil Galfond and Erik Seidel are logging in heavy hours of SBR Poker now that the secret is out.

**Emily_Haines** · 07-12-12, 08:37 PM

Originally posted by daneblazer

Now SBR Badges are a measure of how good one is at poker now?

When we have a guy with few criticizing the play of one with many, yes they are.

**ireland1946** · 07-12-12, 08:38 PM

I am reading your crying about losing a good hand to me
first my Bank Roll was over $12,500 to your $ 4,400
your bet of $800 was telling me you were not that strong
so I put you on a small to mid Pair at best
when flop came and showed 2 nines I now had trip 9s
with Q kicker, that made think I had best Hand and did
put you on that last 9 at all so I pushed big
when the turn brought Q that the Deal that came and gave
me full House, so whats your bitching about I dont shuffle the
Cards so stop com[plaing and listen to some of the advice the Guys
gave you
and by the way I took that Tourney down and won and have no
remorse for calling your Bet

**downsouth** · 07-12-12, 08:40 PM

Originally posted by daneblazer

A min raise is acceptable, but don't make a thread about it when you're call by a big stack in the blinds and lose.

Now SBR Badges are a measure of how good one is at poker now? I'm sure Phil Galfond and Erik Seidel are logging in heavy hours of SBR Poker now that the secret is out.

I mean this not in a confrontational manner but more as a curiousity but how do you justify a min raise from that position at that levels. Guy has 5 big blinds left and blind structure moves fairly quickly at this stage of tourney.

Hes out of position and has basically committed himself (fold equity?) and has given the BB (also big stack) odds to call with almost any two. He will have position on big blind post flop but I think you have to push there with that size stack.

**downsouth** · 07-12-12, 08:44 PM

Originally posted by Emily_Haines

When we have a guy with few criticizing the play of one with many, yes they are.

Of SBR poker is the level you want to bring it to (which I really do not even use as a measuring stick as often I allow my wife/dad to play the tourneys) you still cannot compare what each of us has won on this site. Half of my cashes do not even show up as badges. I cashed every day last week including three top ten (2,3 and 6 I believe).

**daneblazer** · 07-12-12, 08:48 PM

He shoves instead of min raising it's not really creating that much more fold equity in that situation. The min raise does look like a "call me" raise and could get hands like AJ AT to fold, maybe. Even if it's called, it could set up a stop n go type of situation. If someone shoves over the top of him PF he's not folding. If the BB calls him with any two, that's what he wants. A9s crushes any two cards. He's probably calling any flop bet and shoving as soon as he can regardless of what the flop is. A lot of it depends on who you're playing against, situation, none of which I'm really paying attention to. Not my favorite move either, but I think it's defensible and works better than a shove in certain situations.

**downsouth** · 07-12-12, 08:59 PM

agree to disagree, I just have to belive with blinds moving up as rapidly and substantially as they do in those tourneys that you have to accumulate chips and do not have the options of getting creative with hands. Pushing 4k is going to pick up the blinds (with antes 1600) more often than not. min raising, while I understand the concept of the "call me" raise, I just dont think he has enough chips to perform the manuever properly.
With these blind structures I generally have to go five BB or less and theres really only two plays push/fold.

Good luck

**PAULYPOKER** · 07-12-12, 09:02 PM

^ How many of these (SBR Points: 18547) came from usury?

**tatddy** · 07-12-12, 09:18 PM

Point is that a min raise is acceptable as long as you are ok with a likely best case scenario of being a 60/40 favorite and a probable scenario of having to scoop a multi way pot. The fact that the op lost a post flop shove as a 9/1 favorite, while sad, is utterly irrelevant

**borednaz** · 07-12-12, 09:40 PM

Originally posted by daneblazer

He shoves instead of min raising it's not really creating that much more fold equity in that situation. The min raise does look like a "call me" raise and could get hands like AJ AT to fold, maybe. Even if it's called, it could set up a stop n go type of situation. If someone shoves over the top of him PF he's not folding. If the BB calls him with any two, that's what he wants. A9s crushes any two cards. He's probably calling any flop bet and shoving as soon as he can regardless of what the flop is. A lot of it depends on who you're playing against, situation, none of which I'm really paying attention to. Not my favorite move either, but I think it's defensible and works better than a shove in certain situations.

Dane, I love the stop and go. It's made a ton of cash over the years. But in a donkament this move will bust you out way more than it will win. We're dealing with poker logic, his fold equity is in the toilet; his position is crap, and his line is fishy at best. The very best he could hope to suggest is pot odds.. Which are incorrect as hell.

There is 1200 in the pot, he raised 1600. Making that pot 3800. The big blind has to call 800 lousy chips to get over 4x on his money & he has a deep stack. To do this Emily has to risk 40% of his stack. So Emily has risked 1600 to win 1200, out of position in short stack with A9 off. His only possible +ev situation would be a double up which your only getting on a shove.

What if Ireland had shoved but in this case had 99 or AA? Emily would of had 2472 left behind, a forced call, or a horrible fold. No matter how you break it down the best way to have played it pre-flop was Shove or fold.

**borednaz** · 07-12-12, 09:44 PM

Originally posted by Emily_Haines

Everyone misses the point of this thread and it's about how I get fukked all the time.

Just in this tournament alone

1] I call all in from short stack with AQ and lose to AK
2] I call all in from another short stack with AQ and lose to AK
3] I call all in from button with AK in big blind and lose to Q5
4] I get it all in 3 way pot with 99 against 77 & A2 and lose to A2 with a turn 2 and a river 2
5] I get it all in with A9 against Q9 on J99 flop and lose again

No one here has as much bad luck on this rigged site as me. It don't matter what I did because I was destined to lose this hand to the guy with a horseshoe up his ass the whole tournament. It's like I have this grey cloud hanging over my head every time I play. I have played over 1,000,000 hands live and never seen such ridiculous bullshit happen over such a short amount of hands.

I believe like most players here I've had my share of outrageous bad beats, even lost quads to better quads.. I'm a firm believer that no matter how much people cry variance to qualm bad beat complainers there is shitty software out there SBR being one of them. But at some point you either have to adapt or continue to "Run Bad".

**downsouth** · 07-12-12, 09:57 PM

Originally posted by PAULYPOKER

^ How many of these (SBR Points: 18547) came from usury?

What do you think is higher? The cash value of my SBR points or your net worth? Pauly, sweetheart, my hobby is SBR/Points, just like your hobby is trolling, anti-government, conspiracy theories and blaming others. Everybody has to have something to do to keep them entertained.

And probably more of my points have come from gambling and poker. For every good borrower or two there is usually a deadbeat stiff soon to follow which kinda really cuts into the profit margins.

**downsouth** · 07-12-12, 09:59 PM

On on bad beats I still to this day think I have suffered one of at least the top three SBR has to offer.

Flop Q 3 3 when Im holding 3 3 and other guy holding AQ. I dont win.