How would you play it

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  • gwiz
    SBR MVP
    • 02-09-10
    • 1790

    #1
    How would you play it
    The game is no foldem limit holdem

    My hand was KsQc one seat right of the button,the big blind raises and gets 5 callers including me,6 players for 2 bets

    the flop comes Qh 9s 4h,the raiser bets and gets raised and 2 more guys call the 2 bets before me.

    How would you proceed?
  • Nittany Lion
    SBR MVP
    • 09-14-10
    • 1639

    #2
    I'd fold, but alot depends on what amounts are being bet and if it's real money or not.
    Comment
    • gwiz
      SBR MVP
      • 02-09-10
      • 1790

      #3
      this is a real life situation,about my 4th hand at the table tonight,,no foldem holdem implies low stakes


      I don't think the stakes matter a whole lot though,,I think the amount is more of a diversion from what the right play is.

      That is what I am looking for opinions on because I folded and would have won the pot,the Kh came on the turn and the 3 hands shown down were AA,,Q7 from the flop raiser who ended up hitting 2 pair on the river and a K4 who ended up the winner
      Comment
      • Salamander
        SBR Sharp
        • 12-25-09
        • 397

        #4
        Winning monster pots 6 handed after the flop with top pair, no flush or straight prospects are not so good (you only had 5 outs against just the Aces after the flop). Will your post-flop hand hold up more frequently than one in 6 times? Know your opponents, I guess.
        sbr
        Comment
        • zacharyj53
          SBR MVP
          • 08-07-10
          • 2514

          #5
          My decision would have depended on the size of my pot and the pot of the guy who was raising. Players on a shorter stack tend to play more aggressive than their hand should be played. I would have kept playing if my pot would have allowed it and the bets weren't too great.
          Comment
          • boscokid
            SBR MVP
            • 04-03-10
            • 1496

            #6
            Originally posted by Nittany Lion
            I'd fold, but alot depends on what amounts are being bet and if it's real money or not.
            sadly this is correct - very little chance this holds up in a 6 way pot
            Comment
            • daneblazer
              BARRELED IN @ SBR!
              • 09-14-08
              • 27861

              #7
              I'm wondering how the big blind opened with a raise preflop. Sounds like an interesting game already.
              Comment
              • nomeansno
                SBR Wise Guy
                • 05-01-10
                • 585

                #8
                Originally posted by daneblazer
                I'm wondering how the big blind opened with a raise preflop. Sounds like an interesting game already.
                Exactly what I was thinking lol
                Btw it's close between a call or a raise, you have really good odds and there are too many draws out there
                Comment
                • mojomaker11
                  Restricted User
                  • 01-05-09
                  • 286

                  #9
                  fold it. too many people in the pot and top pair won't win it unless you improve your hand.
                  Comment
                  • gwiz
                    SBR MVP
                    • 02-09-10
                    • 1790

                    #10
                    poker is a game of incomplete information and so was this post I guess.

                    we all limped preflop and the BB used his option to raise

                    I tend to agree with nomeansno,I think when pots get this big it might be worth it to go after this pot.

                    I was getting almost 10-1 on the bet but my style tends to be to get out when I think I am chasing and this hand I thought I was chasing a big pair and if it's KK I am dead to 2 cards and further more I don't have the Kh in my hand which weakens my hand even more,plus a K completes a straight for a J10
                    Comment
                    • BeerDog99
                      SBR MVP
                      • 09-22-10
                      • 4894

                      #11
                      I agree with the fold. You are likely behind with little chance to improve. There are just too many cards that will help your hand but help someone more. Essentially you looking for the remaining 2 Queens to be the only safe cards.

                      That said, IMHO, this example highlights why I think limit is very bingo-like. you have 10-1 pot odds for the call but you have very little information on what your opponents have. They could have AA or 22, your guess is as good as mine, especially since you had only 4 hands to see how they are playing. Even with more hands to have a better guess on what they have, you still are only getting a slightly better gauge if the 10-1 is enough.

                      Limit holdem sucks, that is why in HORSE, I generally play very few H rounds.

                      Cheers!
                      Comment
                      • bigdog3580
                        SBR MVP
                        • 08-22-07
                        • 3675

                        #12
                        Calll until another heart comes out. Everyone plays flush draws
                        Comment
                        • borednaz
                          SBR MVP
                          • 08-28-10
                          • 3809

                          #13
                          If this was live, it's actually pretty standard for everyone to call a raise.. Even post flop. Your seriously negative EV here because these people will call down to the river. Which leads to weird 93's etc hitting 2pair a lot.
                          Comment
                          • BernardMadoff
                            SBR Hall of Famer
                            • 12-12-09
                            • 6679

                            #14
                            Many ways you could play this, you could reraise even, depending on their stack and type of player they may not chase if their waiting on a flush. But their could also be someone holding trips also, two pair, a sense of who's playing always helps.
                            Comment
                            • nomeansno
                              SBR Wise Guy
                              • 05-01-10
                              • 585

                              #15
                              Originally posted by borednaz
                              Your seriously negative EV here because these people will call down to the river. Which leads to weird 93's etc hitting 2pair a lot.


                              How are you -EV if they call you down all the time when you have the best hand and they need to improve?
                              Comment
                              • ChileCheese
                                SBR MVP
                                • 11-07-09
                                • 1957

                                #16
                                good fold
                                Comment
                                • Lockitup1x
                                  SBR MVP
                                  • 09-21-09
                                  • 1010

                                  #17
                                  I would fold it you are beaten
                                  Comment
                                  • darkghost
                                    SBR MVP
                                    • 09-19-05
                                    • 1721

                                    #18
                                    The correct play is to fold here unless you have a strong read on your opponents. Just like everyone's pointed out you have at most 5 outs. Remember someone having a flush draw or J10 straight draw limits your hand further. And if someone's slow playing a set you're drawing even slimmer still. Also throw in the fact the original bettor may 3 bet or the pot gets capped and you'll be throwing more money into the pot to chase.
                                    Comment
                                    • oldstylecubsfan
                                      SBR High Roller
                                      • 07-15-10
                                      • 184

                                      #19
                                      probably fold pre and this flop is why. Even if you flop top you have no idea where you are and it really hard to play. If it was at lower stakes you could try to raise pre and isolate with dead money but in this game the raise will just build the pot.
                                      Comment
                                      • draje
                                        SBR Rookie
                                        • 05-16-11
                                        • 1

                                        #20
                                        easy fold
                                        Comment
                                        • daneblazer
                                          BARRELED IN @ SBR!
                                          • 09-14-08
                                          • 27861

                                          #21
                                          I haven't played limit in some time, but someone likely has you dominated here. We've got the original pf raiser leading out, then someone reraising him, then two callers? You're either going to make a thin call or a raise and that certainly won't be the last money you put into the pot with a hand that isn't really going to improve on the turn or the river. Usually the player who reraised the player who raised pf probably has AQ, two pair or a set and is trying to knock out the draws with his reraise. I think you're playing behind here.
                                          Comment
                                          • 1949
                                            SBR Sharp
                                            • 06-13-10
                                            • 475

                                            #22
                                            i have to agree with zach ..it will depend on your stack and those in the hand at this time and if you have a read on anyone yet..my first impulse is to reraise but a lot of hands in there could be a heart flush draw or a set or 2 pair against you. if your stack was questionable then you were wise to fold but if had a dominant stack a call or raise might work. i am usually a more cautious player so i likely would have folded that and watch what they were playing for a better read later..........just my opinion fwiw
                                            Comment
                                            • gwiz
                                              SBR MVP
                                              • 02-09-10
                                              • 1790

                                              #23
                                              I enjoy reading the responses guys,seems like a lot of intelligent players here,if my browser would let me I would give you all some points

                                              for some reason it gave points to 1949 but the others didn't work.
                                              Comment
                                              • gwiz
                                                SBR MVP
                                                • 02-09-10
                                                • 1790

                                                #24
                                                Originally posted by oldstylecubsfan
                                                probably fold pre and this flop is why. Even if you flop top you have no idea where you are and it really hard to play. If it was at lower stakes you could try to raise pre and isolate with dead money but in this game the raise will just build the pot.
                                                It was a close decision,I figured since I was in good position I could limp and see if I flop a big hand of course once the BB raises the whole hand changes,

                                                I just can't see folding before the preflop raise but once it comes back around this is a where the hand got tricky
                                                Comment
                                                • Kaladarus
                                                  SBR MVP
                                                  • 11-11-09
                                                  • 1876

                                                  #25
                                                  Preflop you played it well. The only thing to consider is how often the button/SB/BB are raising. If you don't have much info on them then it's a very easy call preflop in late position. It looks like a standard casino game with many players playing too many hands. It's somewhat unfortunate that you had to put in another bet to see a flop when so many players will give action with any two cards no matter what the board is. Your hand hit a decent flop, but the action is very bad for you. With 3 people representing hands you are very likely beat here. Your situation is marginal at best and there is a very good chance you are beat. Also if you make a call here there is a pretty good chance you will be raised again and maybe capped before the turn. Assuming this hand played out similar to most hands at your table you should tighten your play and play super aggressive when hitting hands. Your table looks like an ideal setup to make easy money.
                                                  Comment
                                                  • Kaladarus
                                                    SBR MVP
                                                    • 11-11-09
                                                    • 1876

                                                    #26
                                                    Originally posted by gwiz
                                                    It was a close decision,I figured since I was in good position I could limp and see if I flop a big hand of course once the BB raises the whole hand changes,

                                                    I just can't see folding before the preflop raise but once it comes back around this is a where the hand got tricky
                                                    You can't fold preflop unless you know for sure the button/sb/bb are raising very often. You made the right play.
                                                    Comment
                                                    • lolguy999
                                                      SBR MVP
                                                      • 01-28-10
                                                      • 3070

                                                      #27
                                                      Really depends where ur playing it, who ur playin against, stakes, stacks sizes, and previous encounter tells. If say u already have 600 committed with 600 left its insta call. But say u only commit 100 and have say 2000 left if u dont feel right about it fold...

                                                      If its SBR poker ur talking about i'd all in in a heartbeat
                                                      Comment
                                                      • BeerDog99
                                                        SBR MVP
                                                        • 09-22-10
                                                        • 4894

                                                        #28
                                                        Originally posted by gwiz
                                                        I enjoy reading the responses guys,seems like a lot of intelligent players here,if my browser would let me I would give you all some points

                                                        for some reason it gave points to 1949 but the others didn't work.
                                                        Hey bud, you are not a pro, therefore, you are only allowed to transfer 2pts/day.

                                                        Cheers.
                                                        Comment
                                                        • gwiz
                                                          SBR MVP
                                                          • 02-09-10
                                                          • 1790

                                                          #29
                                                          wow beerdog thanks for that you get the 2 for today
                                                          Comment
                                                          • SpeedPro
                                                            SBR Wise Guy
                                                            • 09-06-10
                                                            • 643

                                                            #30
                                                            I would fold. That many caller means too many people waiting for the hammer to drop.
                                                            Comment
                                                            • BeerDog99
                                                              SBR MVP
                                                              • 09-22-10
                                                              • 4894

                                                              #31
                                                              Originally posted by gwiz
                                                              wow beerdog thanks for that you get the 2 for today
                                                              LOL, thanks bud. gl in your endeavors!
                                                              Comment
                                                              • scarface2738
                                                                SBR High Roller
                                                                • 10-12-10
                                                                • 134

                                                                #32
                                                                e-z fold
                                                                Comment
                                                                • nomeansno
                                                                  SBR Wise Guy
                                                                  • 05-01-10
                                                                  • 585

                                                                  #33
                                                                  First off guys talking about stack sizes should read OP's post carefully, since it's limit it doesn't matter that much unless somebody doesn't have enough bets to go all the way.

                                                                  Second, if there are a bunch of limpers preflop (and it's low stakes), you can tell this game is full of fish, and those guys will call two small bets on the flop with any kind of backdoor draw, gutshot, bottom pair, anything just hoping to hit. The original raiser's range is quite strong though, but he still has 99-JJ, AK in his range which you beat. The limper who raised his flop bet could have lot of draws, top pair, and a few sets. You are not that bad against his range, since if he had something like QQ-AA, he probably would've limp-reraised when the BB raised.

                                                                  The pot is 19 small bets when it gets to you, and you have to call 2, so there is no way on Earth that you should fold. It is just way to big to fold such a good hand.
                                                                  Obviously it would help a lot if we knew what kind of player the BB and the one who raised him on the flop is, but without knowing anything, folding would be a big mistake.
                                                                  Comment
                                                                  • blackout31
                                                                    SBR High Roller
                                                                    • 05-19-11
                                                                    • 180

                                                                    #34
                                                                    The fold was the right play. Even though you would've won that specific pot, long-term +EV says you lose more than you win. Shake it off. No-foldem is rough, but anyone who has started from nothing br-wise has been there.

                                                                    Good play
                                                                    Comment
                                                                    • gwiz
                                                                      SBR MVP
                                                                      • 02-09-10
                                                                      • 1790

                                                                      #35
                                                                      Originally posted by nomeansno
                                                                      First off guys talking about stack sizes should read OP's post carefully, since it's limit it doesn't matter that much unless somebody doesn't have enough bets to go all the way.

                                                                      Second, if there are a bunch of limpers preflop (and it's low stakes), you can tell this game is full of fish, and those guys will call two small bets on the flop with any kind of backdoor draw, gutshot, bottom pair, anything just hoping to hit. The original raiser's range is quite strong though, but he still has 99-JJ, AK in his range which you beat. The limper who raised his flop bet could have lot of draws, top pair, and a few sets. You are not that bad against his range, since if he had something like QQ-AA, he probably would've limp-reraised when the BB raised.

                                                                      The pot is 19 small bets when it gets to you, and you have to call 2, so there is no way on Earth that you should fold. It is just way to big to fold such a good hand.
                                                                      Obviously it would help a lot if we knew what kind of player the BB and the one who raised him on the flop is, but without knowing anything, folding would be a big mistake.
                                                                      After playing online for years it is taking a bit of adjusting to just how loose the action is live.

                                                                      This is a good post,the only thing you didn't address is the fact that the BB is gonna reraise a good percentage of the time and I thought this was gonna be one of them,the BB seemed like an antsy type and the flop raiser had a bunch of chips and a beer and looked like the guy who plays every hand in my mind it was gonna cost me 4 bets to see the turn card even though it turned out to be only 2
                                                                      Comment
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