becoming a poker pro

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  • fightingwarrior
    Restricted User
    • 05-06-10
    • 7818

    #1
    becoming a poker pro
    i would like thoughts on this to pursue it fulltime.how much would you need for start up money what would you need to play in order to have enough money to pay for bills food ect.

    right now im thinking 10,000.00 bankroll just isnt cutting it.


    when you got bills.thoughts on people who play poker to make a living.
  • Emily_Haines
    SBR Posting Legend
    • 04-14-09
    • 15917

    #2
    There are a couple of guys at the casino I go to that have no jobs and just play 1/2 NL poker probably 40 hours a week. One guy just got his ass put in jail and he they let him out during the day for work release and he can only play day sessions now. One guy says he makes about 40K per year doing it. I don't think making 800 cash per week would be that hard if your good at it. There are so many shitty players in the live games at this low level. I still suck but slowly feel I am getting better.
    Comment
    • fightingwarrior
      Restricted User
      • 05-06-10
      • 7818

      #3
      yeah the swings are bad i played for 2 months every day and night and the swings was what was bad.you win and lose.cash games is a hard thing to do if your starting out.
      Comment
      • Jiggy Fly
        SBR MVP
        • 05-02-08
        • 1256

        #4
        I would have at least a years worth of money to live off of saved up. Variance is a bitch!!!
        Comment
        • Congruency
          SBR Wise Guy
          • 04-12-10
          • 561

          #5
          50-100 full buyins at the level you want to play

          +6 months living expenses saved up
          Comment
          • BeerDog99
            SBR MVP
            • 09-22-10
            • 4894

            #6
            I think the +6 months living expenses is reasonable. your running overall buffer should be 3-6months.

            50-100 full buyins is a little excessive IMHO. If you have >40 full buy-in downswing in live play (i.e. one table), you have a major leak in your game.
            Comment
            • sinmiedo
              SBR MVP
              • 03-10-10
              • 2698

              #7
              i hope one day i could be there
              still working on it
              Comment
              • Roxxyfish
                SBR Posting Legend
                • 06-26-09
                • 12066

                #8
                Many envy the life a professional poker player. Who wouldn't want to set their own hours, play a game they love for a living, and travel around the world to various tournaments? Add a nice income to boot, and you have yourself a dream job. So how does a professional become a professional?

                Professional poker players do not graduate from Poker Pro School, and there is also no guild that bestows the "pro" status on players. It is entirely a label that one adopts for himself. Even some people who lose money at poker consider themselves professionals. Generally, one decides to make poker-playing his occupation for at least one of two reasons:

                On the one hand, they may feel that they can make more money at poker than they could at any other occupation they could acquire. Generally, these players have logged in over 500 hours of poker and have measured their hourly rate to be significantly higher than any other job they could get. To track statistics like these, a pro would use a website such as CheckYourBets.com.

                On the other hand, they may simply enjoy the poker lifestyle so much that they will sacrifice income for freedom. Also, the extent of a professional's career varies. Most poker professionals view their poker-playing as a temporary job. They may be between jobs or expect to enter a higher-paying occupation in the future. Only a relative few view poker-playing as a career for life.

                A solid professional is fundamentally a businessman. He or she understands how to play poker to maximize his or her income. The incomes of pros are entirely diverse and depend on the skill, bankroll, guts, and luck of the player. The amount of hours that pros play also vary. The only thing they have in common is that poker is their primary source of income. Raw poker skills are only a fraction of what is necessary to make significant money playing poker. One must know what game he or she excels at most in terms of hourly rate. A true, solid poker professional plays the poker game that gives him the highest hourly rate. Generally, the factors that affects one's hourly rate include:



                1. One's skill compared to others' skill
                2. Number of hands per hour and tables the person can play
                3. The rake or time charge
                4. The variance involved

                Taken together, a person with less cardplaying skill can easily make more money than a very skilled player if the less skilled person is smarter about all of the other factors. Since pros are interested in making money, they must play against people who essentially are interested in losing money. This means playing in soft, loose games. Also, because a poker player wants to exert his or her edge as much as possible, the number of hands one plays is a critical factor. Of course, it depends on the type of game the pro chooses.

                If a pro is a Limit Hold'em player, then his or her medium of playing is of great importance. Playing on the internet at 3 tables at once will easily yield five times as many hands per hour compared to a person playing in a brick-and-mortar casino. If the two are playing the same limit against comparable competition, the internet pro can easily make five times as much as the brick-and-mortar player. While the B&M player can focus more on his one game, the internet pro has the advantage of a lower rake and the ability to play many more hands per hour. At Limit Poker, hand volume is much more important than player reads.

                For No-Limit Poker, reads are more important. Thus, a player might not be able to play two or three games at once. Again, it depends on the player, but his or her choice of medium will greatly affect his or her hourly rate.

                Tournament professionals exist, too. However, they are rare compared to the number of cash game pros. This is because tournaments have a high level of variance and tend to have stronger competition than cash games. It is also much harder to calculate one's hourly rate at a tournament because tournament income is so volatile. While there are certainly famous, successful tournament players, many who choose this route end up failing. Compared to cash game players, tournament players are notorious for being in debt and dependent on others' staking them.

                There are four major turnoffs to being a professional poker player. First, it is not a very social activity. If you are an internet pro, you are essentially playing at home, with little human interaction. You do not enjoy the chat by the water cooler and other social perks associated with a regular job. Secondly, poker becomes very monotonous very quickly. Sure, a pro can play a variety of games. But since a poker professional is primarily interested in making money, he will probably want to mainly play the one game that provides his highest hourly rate. Needless to say, this can become very boring, very fast. Thirdly, many take issue that the poker player does not really contribute anything to society. This has become less and less of an issue, as professional poker players are often considered 'entertainers.'

                Finally, and most importantly to many, poker can have a highly variable income. Based on my own data, my standard deviation per hour is 6 times my hourly rate. This basically means that if I made $100 an hour, there is about a 68% chance that in any one hour I'd make between -$500 and $700. The rest of the time I would have an even larger swing. This is not appealing to many, who couldn't handle the stress of such fluctations of income. The poker professional must not be phased by these fluctuations at all. Generally, poker players with large bankrolls tend to fare better and play with less fear. While their poker winnings are what puts food on the table, any single day, week, or month means relatively little to their overall bankroll.

                What a true professional worries about is not the luck of the cards but the changes in the poker market. Professionals need to play against poor players. One makes money because one has better relative skill than others. If a pro is playing against a bunch of pros, then he or she will make little to no money. A poker professional's income is much more dependent on the skill of others than himself. After all, he has probably perfected his skills as much as he possibly can. The only thing that can affect his relative skill is the skill level of the opposition. If no new, poor players enter the poker world, the professional will probably have to look for a new job.

                For the above reasons, most solid poker players do not become professionals. Many of those with the skills and bankroll necessary to play poker can make just as much (if not more) money at another job. They also may simply love another job so much that they would rather do that line of work than poker, even if they made more money at poker. It is probably a good thing for poker professionals that being a full-time poker player is not too appealing of a job. If many people became pros, then the competition would be too tough to make much money at poker!

                Poker is often better as a secondary job. 'Semi-professionals' enjoy poker as a side income and hobby without relying on it as a stable source of income. They also avoid the anti-social, monotonous nature of professional poker playing. Some semi-pros make a very significant income from playing cards, even more than many professionals! After all, none of the last three winners of the World Series of Poker were professionals at the time. Poker as a lucrative hobby instead of a profession is the route that most winning
                Comment
                • BeerDog99
                  SBR MVP
                  • 09-22-10
                  • 4894

                  #9
                  Wow, quite a well thought out and well documented post, thanks!

                  I for one, just want to get to a point where I can reliably make a little bit of money to supplement my free spending money. Not looking for a lot.

                  Right now I cannot seem to cross that thresshold of consistent profitability. My downswings are invariably larger and longer than my upswings....
                  Comment
                  • DaProfessor23
                    SBR MVP
                    • 12-07-08
                    • 1180

                    #10
                    Roxxyfish , Very Nice Post
                    Comment
                    • svenodds
                      SBR MVP
                      • 09-12-09
                      • 1790

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Jiggy Fly
                      I would have at least a years worth of money to live off of saved up. Variance is a bitch!!!
                      agree

                      BOL
                      Comment
                      • daneblazer
                        BARRELED IN @ SBR!
                        • 09-14-08
                        • 27861

                        #12
                        Explore the life of a professional poker player - from motivations behind going pro to strategic considerations in game selection. Learn about the challenges and lifestyle choices in the world of poker.


                        good info regardless. you'll need a lot saved up to live off of
                        Comment
                        • UsUschi
                          Restricted User
                          • 09-13-10
                          • 158

                          #13
                          Roxxy rules
                          Comment
                          • Tomahawk
                            SBR Sharp
                            • 04-24-10
                            • 358

                            #14
                            Where and when do you think I can find the most terrible poker players to play with?

                            The only way to make money in poker is to be better then the average Joe at the table. I am playing poker at Pinnaclesports and I figured out that around 6-8 pm EST their are less qualified players then in the morning or in the afternoon.
                            Comment
                            • Kaladarus
                              SBR MVP
                              • 11-11-09
                              • 1876

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Tomahawk
                              Where and when do you think I can find the most terrible poker players to play with?

                              The only way to make money in poker is to be better then the average Joe at the table. I am playing poker at Pinnaclesports and I figured out that around 6-8 pm EST their are less qualified players then in the morning or in the afternoon.
                              This is a good post. While people say poker players can "work" whenever they want, that couldn't be further from the truth. Unless you're the greatest player of all time and have unlimited money. Even the best pros will play at certain tournaments no matter what. Cash game pros that want to make more money will figure out when the worst players are at the tables. This could possibly mean that you are "working" evenings and weekends. Also holidays or nights after the holidays could be your biggest profit. Why would someone play in the morning if what they're expected to earn is less than half of what they would make playing that evening? One thing is for sure though, most poker professionals can't just play whenever they want to make a living they are comfortable with.
                              Comment
                              • ChileCheese
                                SBR MVP
                                • 11-07-09
                                • 1957

                                #16
                                dont do it... much harder than you could ever imagine. Only way its worth is it to play online and high enough stakes through Pokerstars or Full Tilt to receive adequate rake back and live off bonuses.
                                Comment
                                • BeerDog99
                                  SBR MVP
                                  • 09-22-10
                                  • 4894

                                  #17
                                  Can you get rakeback with Pstars? I thought you could not.
                                  Comment
                                  • muldoon
                                    SBR MVP
                                    • 01-04-10
                                    • 4397

                                    #18
                                    Last year I wanted to see if I could make at least a partial income playing at pokerstars. I played in the knockout SNG's (where 50% of the people get back their buy in plus 1 buy-in minus tourney rake).

                                    I wanted to average $80 a day for 30 days and I played $20 SNG's. I did it for 2 months, and reached my goal of $2000 a month both months.

                                    $2k a month is not enough to really live on, but I did it to see if I was cut out to do this.....I was not. Some days I was done quickly, other days it took me 3-4 hours. A couple days I literally played for 14-16 hours just to make the $80.

                                    I don't think I am mentally equipped to handle the boredom (no patience). I at least proved to myself I could do it if I had to...but since I didn't really HAVE to, I'm not sure if I could do it again if I really needed the money to pay bills etc.

                                    I don't envy pro players one bit to be honest.
                                    Comment
                                    • Kaladarus
                                      SBR MVP
                                      • 11-11-09
                                      • 1876

                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by BeerDog99
                                      Can you get rakeback with Pstars? I thought you could not.
                                      You can't get rakeback, but if you're playing enough and getting the right status the points you get are the equivalent of rakeback. If you use your points for clearing cash prizes it's pretty much the same thing. The only difference with pstars is that you're not guaranteed a rakeback rate. You have to get up in status to make the same as fulltilt or slightly more if you reach top status. It's harder to get more money with pstars, but if you're a pro playing higher limits, pstars points work out to more than the rakeback on fulltilt.
                                      Comment
                                      • BeerDog99
                                        SBR MVP
                                        • 09-22-10
                                        • 4894

                                        #20
                                        Thanks, that is what I thought.

                                        Cheers.
                                        Comment
                                        • itchypickle
                                          SBR Posting Legend
                                          • 11-05-09
                                          • 21452

                                          #21
                                          A Lot pros are bigger degenerates than those who just bet sports all of the time. I know a few guys who do it out of Tunica and most are set regardless if they win or lose...it's more of a supplemental income to them but they call it 'being pro' and the ones who depends solely on the games....are up and down so much I don't envy it one bit.
                                          Comment
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