Becoming the best at poker

[Ballerholic]

Hey guys I've been away for a bit. Just finished my degree which took a lot of time, and then spent June traveling and moving out of my apartment. Now I'm looking to finally get everything together and move forward full force. Currently playing between 20-50NL. Can't post any hands as the sites I play don't allow tracking, but will post results and time played, etc. Currently, trying to come up with the best strategy to not only improve, but also move up as quick as possible. Study/Play ratio, will most likely be at a 1:1 ratio, but could lean towards 1:2.

Please comment here and post any advice or anything you wish. Let's try to get some conversation going!

P.S. Will become pro again soon

[JAKEPEAVY21]

joining a training site or watching some grinders on Twitch are some good ways to improve your game.

[Auto Donk]

after much thought and consideration, and staring at your avatar for a few minutes, I recommend dropping the notion of becoming a "pro" poker player and suggest focusing on titty-fukking as a full-time occupation.....

[GUMMO77]

joining a training site or watching some grinders on Twitch are some good ways to improve your game.

This.

[PAULYPOKER]

I hate Poker...............

[Ballerholic]

joining a training site or watching some grinders on Twitch are some good ways to improve your game.

Thanks man! Yea I'm already watching some twitch streams at the moment, and will be joining BTS, a coaching group this month.

after much thought and consideration, and staring at your avatar for a few minutes, I recommend dropping the notion of becoming a "pro" poker player and suggest focusing on titty-fukking as a full-time occupation.....

Hahaha don't worry, that's how I spend my time away from the tables

I hate Poker...............

Sometimes I hate it too

[SharpAngles]

Best strategy to improve is to watch GUMMO77 play. Guy is bitchslapping SBR Poker like a true pimp.

Just last week he caught me with the ol what did the five fingers say to the face...

[RudyRuetigger]

unless you dedicate everything to learning exactly how someone else (YouR COACH) plays and copying that, its not worth it since you already know alot. and it costs way too much to have a coach. they are a coach because they make a better hourly at that instead of beating the game. thats the problem. for some reason the cost of a poker coach is fukkin 200% of their hourly


get friends that play same level as you as take it just as seriously

[Crusherrr]

At 20-50NL you should feel very fortunate to make $400 in a week profit on average. That's if you are playing 20k hands a week or so. Get a job and play poker on the side. If you find that you are able to make your way up to 200NL or 400NL then you may have a chance at doing it full time. You've really gone nowhere in poker since you started posting on here and you have little expense. If you still haven't moved up beyond 50NL then you may never get there.

Coaching may end up hurting you. You have to develop your own play, plug your own leaks, go through database and see where your losing money and in what spots. Do you defend too wide, open too tight from certain positions, are you c-betting enough into soft spots, what board textures are you barreling, are you changing your sizing against different opponents based off of their stats, etc. Reviewing your own play is very important. If you can't plug your own leaks and figure out how to improve on situations that youre bleeding from then you will continue breaking even/slight winner forever. Improve your depth on opponent ranges. Be the one that puts pressure on the other regs to make mistakes. Don't be the one who is constantly getting put into tough spots.

[MalikHusam]

do you find sites with no tracking softer? do you play nitrogen poker?

[Auto Donk]

did I mention titty-fukking for a living?

guys like jj will play to watch a live feed into your bedroom.....

how I built my poker bank roll back in 2009

enabled me to play several bracelet events that year....

[GUMMO77]

Best strategy to improve is to watch GUMMO77 play. Guy is bitchslapping SBR Poker like a true pimp.

Just last week he caught me with the ol what did the five fingers say to the face...

I'll be missing next week. The old lady and I are heading on a week long cruise, so that will probably give SBR enough time to figure out what my bot has been doing.

[SharpAngles]

Not only is Gums running SBR Poker like a boss but now he’s going on a weeklong luxury cruise and getting laid at least once a day!

Some guys just run good

[GUMMO77]

Not only is Gums running SBR Poker like a boss but now he’s going on a weeklong luxury cruise and getting laid at least once a day!

Some guys just run good

You fuker

[Ballerholic]

Best strategy to improve is to watch GUMMO77 play. Guy is bitchslapping SBR Poker like a true pimp.

Just last week he caught me with the ol what did the five fingers say to the face...

Haha yea Gummo is a beast

unless you dedicate everything to learning exactly how someone else (YouR COACH) plays and copying that, its not worth it since you already know alot. and it costs way too much to have a coach. they are a coach because they make a better hourly at that instead of beating the game. thats the problem. for some reason the cost of a poker coach is fukkin 200% of their hourly


get friends that play same level as you as take it just as seriously

Yea that's true. Coaches want 100-200/hr to go over a few hands. Extortionate rates, but I kind of get why they want to charge more since they obvs don't want to create more regs in their games. My last coach was making around 1k a week just coaching on the side to his playing. But yea, every pro I've talked to said to form a group with poker buddies in same stake and just work your ass off.

At 20-50NL you should feel very fortunate to make $400 in a week profit on average. That's if you are playing 20k hands a week or so. Get a job and play poker on the side. If you find that you are able to make your way up to 200NL or 400NL then you may have a chance at doing it full time. You've really gone nowhere in poker since you started posting on here and you have little expense. If you still haven't moved up beyond 50NL then you may never get there.

Coaching may end up hurting you. You have to develop your own play, plug your own leaks, go through database and see where your losing money and in what spots. Do you defend too wide, open too tight from certain positions, are you c-betting enough into soft spots, what board textures are you barreling, are you changing your sizing against different opponents based off of their stats, etc. Reviewing your own play is very important. If you can't plug your own leaks and figure out how to improve on situations that youre bleeding from then you will continue breaking even/slight winner forever. Improve your depth on opponent ranges. Be the one that puts pressure on the other regs to make mistakes. Don't be the one who is constantly getting put into tough spots.

Yea very good post. Essentially this is the first time I'm really able to take poker as serious as possible as I just finished school and its summer. Joining this coaching group and learning a lot of this stuff will really help. At the moment I'm really working on putting regs into tough spots.

do you find sites with no tracking softer? do you play nitrogen poker?

Yea non tracking sites are usually a lot softer. I'm American, but I live in Europe so I'm playing on some untracked sites out here and then a Chinese Poker app. Also, I occasionally play some U.S. sites.

did I mention titty-fukking for a living?

guys like jj will play to watch a live feed into your bedroom.....

how I built my poker bank roll back in 2009

enabled me to play several bracelet events that year....

LOLOLOLOL

[Ballerholic]

Day 1 Finished.

It was a very productive day. I went through my pregame routine which is: Eat, Workout, Go over hands, Watch a Live Play video, Meditate and Shower. Then fired up some tables on the Chinese poker app and some MPN. Played a very good sessions throughout the day and was very focused. I made a little on the Chinese app ~$14, and I will not be checking my MPN results for a while. Maybe once a week? or twice a month? I only check winnings on Chinese app because you can't hide balance so I know right away . Anyway, I'm pretty sure I'm up a small bit at MPN as well. I played about 4.5 hours yesterday and definitely felt more focused throughout the sessions.

Goal today is to get through my pregame routine. Go over some preflop stuff (looking to play wider ranges) and then I've got some postflop strategies to go over. Will hopefully get in around 4 hours grind again and then watch some World Cup matches! I'm routing for France even though they cost me $45,000 last year!

[RudyRuetigger]

Hey bro

You seem very disciplined

So I gotta ask

What happened with your other thread?

Why arent u sbrpro to turn ur points into cash?

[cincinnatikid513]

playing poker professionally doesn't seem enjoyable, playing recreational can be enjoyable

[cincinnatikid513]

thanks rudy

[bobbywaves]

Why arent u sbrpro to turn ur points into cash?

So you want him to spend $100 for pro, to cash his pts out for $25? Sounds lucrative.

SBR pro isn’t for everyone, if you can’t generate pts.

[Crusherrr]

Day 1 Finished.

It was a very productive day. I went through my pregame routine which is: Eat, Workout, Go over hands, Watch a Live Play video, Meditate and Shower. Then fired up some tables on the Chinese poker app and some MPN. Played a very good sessions throughout the day and was very focused. I made a little on the Chinese app ~$14, and I will not be checking my MPN results for a while. Maybe once a week? or twice a month? I only check winnings on Chinese app because you can't hide balance so I know right away . Anyway, I'm pretty sure I'm up a small bit at MPN as well. I played about 4.5 hours yesterday and definitely felt more focused throughout the sessions.

Goal today is to get through my pregame routine. Go over some preflop stuff (looking to play wider ranges) and then I've got some postflop strategies to go over. Will hopefully get in around 4 hours grind again and then watch some World Cup matches! I'm routing for France even though they cost me $45,000 last year!

If you're playing on the chinese poker app called PPPoker I'd be careful. The app is definitely questionable and nothing done to stop collusion. I've been in many clubs and especially in PLO if it goes 3 ways I pay close attention of the opponents working together. I stopped playing there even though it appears to be the softest games you will ever see in your life.

[Ballerholic]

Hey bro

You seem very disciplined

So I gotta ask

What happened with your other thread?

Why arent u sbrpro to turn ur points into cash?

With school and being a student I just couldn't pay the $100 to be an SBR Pro. I know $100 isn't much, but there are so many more useful things to spend it on as a student. Anyway, since I'm out in Europe I'm able to deposit into a sportsbook in order to become a Pro so essentially it doesn't actually cost me anything.

playing poker professionally doesn't seem enjoyable, playing recreational can be enjoyable

Haha yea playing recreationally is soo much more fun.

If you're playing on the chinese poker app called PPPoker I'd be careful. The app is definitely questionable and nothing done to stop collusion. I've been in many clubs and especially in PLO if it goes 3 ways I pay close attention of the opponents working together. I stopped playing there even though it appears to be the softest games you will ever see in your life.

Yea I've heard things like this too. My old coach played the 1/2K games and stopped playing them for some reason....even though he plays 500 zoom on PS. Right now I'm staked on that site and I haven't sensed any collusion, but I'm playing very low stakes there. It is definitely something I'll be weary about when I move up.

Also, crusherr what sites/stakes do you play now? Are you a poker pro?

[Ballerholic]

Day 2

Another day in the bag! Woke up, went through my entire pregame routine and felt amazing. I then started playing and felt really good about my game. I started to really implement certain lines/strategies I've come to learn, but never fully trusted and I do feel enlightened almost. I did run really good too lol. Right now the biggest thing that is helping my play is to not think of poker as a way to make money. I watched a Q&A by Nick Howard on mindset yesterday and he talked about this. When we feel entitled to be winning and feel like we should be winning right now we end up 1) getting very frustrated when we don't win, 2) will begin calling too light because we feel the need to make that money right now and always feel like the opponent doesn't have "it", and 3) it shows that we are not financially sound. So at the moment I am not looking at my bankroll on MPN and not really concerned about making money on either sites. Because of this I've been able to play way more aggressive and take better EV lines that I would have nitted out of before due to not wanting to lose money. I've wanted to be able to play like this for the past year, but have always been so scared of losing.

Anyway, over the past 2 days I am up $155 on the Chinese site and definitely up on the other site. Played about 9 hours over the past 2 days in total. I think I'll check the balance on that account next Thursday.

[Ballerholic]

Day 4

Only played about 1 hour on day 3 so didn't make an update.

So yesterday was very interesting. Didn't get through the pregame routine I wanted and then session just started horribly. I lost about $100 on the chinese site just getting coolered. Oh well, still up $47.8 without rakeback. Then on MPN I decided to check my results since it was last day of the week and I was curious, anyway was up about $30 after 11 hours of play, and I've got about $30 in rakeback I can cash too. So around $5 an hour, not too bad. Anyway, although I was up wayyyy more before I had my $-130 day yesterday, it was still a profitable week!

[Ballerholic]

Day 5

Played only a few hours yesterday, but day went very well. Up just under $100. More importantly, did a lot of studying especially with Pio videos from pros and learning about flop/turn strategies. I think I'm very good on flop, the areas I am the weakest are in 3bet pots. As well, I hope to receive some coaching in the next week or two from one of the top 200z regs. I'm going to make it or die trying!

[mpaschal34]

I hate to sound like an old dad here (I don’t even have kids), but wouldn’t your time be better spent trying to establish a career? I work at the typical American company and engineers start at $69,000 and non-engineers around $55,000 (with college degree). That’s about $33 and $26 per hour respectively.

At worst, let’s say your average raise is 3% per year. So in 25 years you are making either $140,262 (engineer) or $111,803 (non-engineer). Again, you should do better vs this average if you are smart (which would be required to play poker professionally). If you add benefits (health care, 401k marching, etc), then you should add about $10k per year.

Just trying to help you see the light so that you don’t end up playing slots for a $20 a day profit like JJ Gold when you are 70.

You will still have plenty of time to play poker recreationally.

[Ian]

GL

A lot of people here are telling you to play recreationally. As far as I'm concerned, if poker is your dream, then go for it. There is, however, some merit in having secondary sources of income. Having a side source of income smoothes out the downswings and makes it easier to take a break especially if you can get some passive income.

For example, life "ran bad" for me and I just had to take a month off from poker to take care of very serious non-financial matters. If this had happened to me when I was only playing poker for a living I would have had to deal with the additional stress of not having any income for a month. I still play professionally, but now that I have some sources of side income, I could take care of things without having to sweat a complete loss of income for a month.

Having secondary sources of income is something I wish I had caught on to earlier in my poker career. And shit, even Knish had the truck.

[Ballerholic]

I hate to sound like an old dad here (I don’t even have kids), but wouldn’t your time be better spent trying to establish a career? I work at the typical American company and engineers start at $69,000 and non-engineers around $55,000 (with college degree). That’s about $33 and $26 per hour respectively.

At worst, let’s say your average raise is 3% per year. So in 25 years you are making either $140,262 (engineer) or $111,803 (non-engineer). Again, you should do better vs this average if you are smart (which would be required to play poker professionally). If you add benefits (health care, 401k marching, etc), then you should add about $10k per year.

Just trying to help you see the light so that you don’t end up playing slots for a $20 a day profit like JJ Gold when you are 70.

You will still have plenty of time to play poker recreationally.

Haha yea I hear you man. I'm just trying to do this to see if I can make it while I'm still young. I'd much prefer to be playing and traveling the world over the next few years if possible and then really get into a "career" if I am not making much. Ideally $3k a month is probably what is needed in order to achieve this. Remember there is no tax on poker winnings as I'm currently residing in Ireland. So about $100 a day, which is probably a very realistic goal at 100nl.

GL

A lot of people here are telling you to play recreationally. As far as I'm concerned, if poker is your dream, then go for it. There is, however, some merit in having secondary sources of income. Having a side source of income smoothes out the downswings and makes it easier to take a break especially if you can get some passive income.

For example, life "ran bad" for me and I just had to take a month off from poker to take care of very serious non-financial matters. If this had happened to me when I was only playing poker for a living I would have had to deal with the additional stress of not having any income for a month. I still play professionally, but now that I have some sources of side income, I could take care of things without having to sweat a complete loss of income for a month.

Having secondary sources of income is something I wish I had caught on to earlier in my poker career. And shit, even Knish had the truck.

Thanks man. Yea I definitely understand the need for side income, as poker has high variance and I've got bills. But, it's definitely something worse pursuing in my mind. Worst case, I get a job and then play poker and make money doing it as a hobby.

[Ballerholic]

Day 6

What another great day! Ended up making some good money at the tables, over $100, and watched a few videos. So far I've watched about 6 poker videos and learning a lot. Unfortunately the poker site I play on has been down for over 24 hours so I don't know if I'll be able to play today. I'm pretty much done playing on the Chinese App. Although extremely soft, and maybe it is variance, but I just find some really fishy things happening. Again, I was warned about this, but thought I'd check it out anyway.

Right now I really feel the need for a mentor or community around poker. I'm definitely going to be getting a coach, but can't decide between joining a coaching group where the community is extremely poker focused and would get me into the right mindset and have me studying more effectively and often. Or, do I do that on my own, try to form my own group and pay somebody a little less money for an hour of their time?

[Crusherrr]

I'm pretty much done playing on the Chinese App. Although extremely soft, and maybe it is variance, but I just find some really fishy things happening. Again, I was warned about this, but thought I'd check it out anyway.

I've played on 100+ poker sites over the years without question and never experienced anything like PPPoker and Pokermaster. What seems like the softest games in the world brings about very questionable outcomes. Not to mention many can easily just end up being scams by club owners.

Regarding your above question towards me. No, I don't play for a living anymore. I never had a job up until age 25 bc of poker and played poker underage since age 13. If you can make $100k/year playing poker you can probably make quite a bit more outside poker. Poker gave me an incredible start on life in many aspects but I felt that if I kept playing I'd miss out on future earnings by a lot. I don't think my current skills in poker can net me >$100k without insane grinding. I'm not willing to do that anymore and play for fun. I still play up to 400nl successfully online and mess around in bigger tournaments from time to time. I did just play the WSOP Main Event too but did not cash.

While 25 may seem young. It really isn't. Every year you play full time and are out of the workforce it sets you back a great deal. The poker lifestyle is great but so is being an entrepreneur/self-employed in other fields that are more rewarding than poker. All of the guys I grew up playing with/against that became very successful poker players and moved to Mexico/Thailand/Europe etc after black friday in the states were all 21 at the time. I was all set to move to Rosarito Beach Mexico but found out my GF at the time was pregnant. They all continued their success and I sort of stagnated and kept playing midstakes on american facing networks to give myself/family the stability that was needed.

[Ballerholic]

I've played on 100+ poker sites over the years without question and never experienced anything like PPPoker and Pokermaster. What seems like the softest games in the world brings about very questionable outcomes. Not to mention many can easily just end up being scams by club owners.

Regarding your above question towards me. No, I don't play for a living anymore. I never had a job up until age 25 bc of poker and played poker underage since age 13. If you can make $100k/year playing poker you can probably make quite a bit more outside poker. Poker gave me an incredible start on life in many aspects but I felt that if I kept playing I'd miss out on future earnings by a lot. I don't think my current skills in poker can net me >$100k without insane grinding. I'm not willing to do that anymore and play for fun. I still play up to 400nl successfully online and mess around in bigger tournaments from time to time. I did just play the WSOP Main Event too but did not cash.

While 25 may seem young. It really isn't. Every year you play full time and are out of the workforce it sets you back a great deal. The poker lifestyle is great but so is being an entrepreneur/self-employed in other fields that are more rewarding than poker. All of the guys I grew up playing with/against that became very successful poker players and moved to Mexico/Thailand/Europe etc after black friday in the states were all 21 at the time. I was all set to move to Rosarito Beach Mexico but found out my GF at the time was pregnant. They all continued their success and I sort of stagnated and kept playing midstakes on american facing networks to give myself/family the stability that was needed.

Wow that's insane! Much respect man. You definitely did the responsible thing, and you are correct that in order to be clever and hard working in order to make $100k a year playing poker, you could easily make $200k doing something else is so true. I think having a passion for what you do is really important though. I probably am naive and young, but I do read a lot about regrets from people on their death beds and it is always that they didn't do what they were passionate about and did what was expected. If I can find a job or career that I have some passion for then I have no problem going full force into that. But right now, I don't really know what that may be. I definitely want own my own business one day, especially doing real estate and having some franchises, but that obviously isn't possible right now.

Unfortunately, I'll probably have to go get a job real soon. Maybe it will be a good thing.

[Ballerholic]

Day 7

Another good day. Unfortunately, the poker site I play on was down and couldn't log any hands in. But I watched another couple of poker videos by some top pros and I just keep learning so much. I still have the whole Educa Poker 6max course to get through as well. I'm extremely confident I am beating 50NL right now, and as long as I can prove that by the end of the month I'll be headed towards 100NL to start August. At that point I'm technically a full time pro.

I'm definitely heading in the right direction at the moment and hopefully it can continue. Climbing 1 stake per month I feel is definitely achievable until I can hit around 200nl. The videos I'm watching are from Pros playing 500NL+ and so once I get on the tables and start implementing these strategies I really think I can fly thru the next two limits.

[Crusherrr]

Day 7

Another good day. Unfortunately, the poker site I play on was down and couldn't log any hands in. But I watched another couple of poker videos by some top pros and I just keep learning so much. I still have the whole Educa Poker 6max course to get through as well. I'm extremely confident I am beating 50NL right now, and as long as I can prove that by the end of the month I'll be headed towards 100NL to start August. At that point I'm technically a full time pro.

I'm definitely heading in the right direction at the moment and hopefully it can continue. Climbing 1 stake per month I feel is definitely achievable until I can hit around 200nl. The videos I'm watching are from Pros playing 500NL+ and so once I get on the tables and start implementing these strategies I really think I can fly thru the next two limits.

I do think you can make it. But you have it 50x harder than I did. It took very little to be a winning 1knl player 10 years ago in my prime. I wasn't even one of the elites. I was just one with solid bankroll management and the best mental game around. I didn't get tilted, I didn't chase dreams of playing 200-400NL with the very best. I was content with my ability at the time and mostly bumhunted HU games when it was all the rave.

Tournaments are what are popular nowadays. If I were to be in your shoes today I'd go that route because they are the soft spot. If I played Pokerstars/888 and other popular sites that you have access to I probably couldn't beat 400NL and would likely be a small loser in 200NL games that's how tough they are today. Tournaments you can still very easily attain 20-30% ROI in small/midstakes games. You would need a much larger bankroll though. I've tried switching to more tournaments but I just don't have the time or desire for the stress and grind that tournaments require.

[oneunder]

I definitely want own my own business one day, especially doing real estate and having some franchises.

Baller,

Move here to Vegas, get your real estate broker's license, and play all the poker you want.

[Ballerholic]

I do think you can make it. But you have it 50x harder than I did. It took very little to be a winning 1knl player 10 years ago in my prime. I wasn't even one of the elites. I was just one with solid bankroll management and the best mental game around. I didn't get tilted, I didn't chase dreams of playing 200-400NL with the very best. I was content with my ability at the time and mostly bumhunted HU games when it was all the rave.

Tournaments are what are popular nowadays. If I were to be in your shoes today I'd go that route because they are the soft spot. If I played Pokerstars/888 and other popular sites that you have access to I probably couldn't beat 400NL and would likely be a small loser in 200NL games that's how tough they are today. Tournaments you can still very easily attain 20-30% ROI in small/midstakes games. You would need a much larger bankroll though. I've tried switching to more tournaments but I just don't have the time or desire for the stress and grind that tournaments require.

Thanks Crush I appreciate it. Yea you have to work so much harder to beat today's games because there is so much information available to everybody and people have less money to just blow nowadays. That being said, it can still be a nice gig I think. I'm not too sure about MTTs. One guy who used to be coached by the 3rd best player in the world right now told me that MTTs are the best way to make money. He said 100-200k a year. But from some MTT pros I've seen on 2+2 doing it for years, it seems $60k is about what they'll pull in. I think cash is way more lucrative, but we'll see.

I definitely want own my own business one day, especially doing real estate and having some franchises.

Baller,

Move here to Vegas, get your real estate broker's license, and play all the poker you want.

Haha yea vegas seems cool, but I don't know if I could live there. Maybe one day, you never know...