Allen Iverson or Jason Kidd? In their prime

[jsmithj88]

If I was the GM of a new franchise and had to pick between the two in their prime to be a key piece of the new team - AI in a heartbeat. Noe that said, he brings all that "AI" baggage, but if you can harness that, AI would be the best player on the floor 95% of the time you played. Kidd was great, but not AI great.

AI is a player that needs the ball in his hands for the entire 24seconds to be effective.
u couldnt have a team of AI and kobe cuz neither one can really play well unless they have the ball.
a guy with AI's talent, he cant even be a productive bench player now cuz he didnt know how to play the game. he cant be a mentor cuz he was never a great team player.

[BernardMadoff]

Bernard I agree Kidd made everyone better and personally as a team mate I would want Kidd to because I know he can turn me into a solid player. But we're talking individually here, Kidd never was a top 5 player in the nba at any point in his career bro. AI we can say he was for at least a couple of years. To be fair for the majority of iverson's career he never was able to hand the ball off to someone on his team that could create shots for other players at will. He was the focal point of everything, and had to be.

Iverson was always a selfish player and I hated him for that, especially when he couldn't make it work in Detroit. But as a pure basketball player, both are certainly HOFmers and on in a team game, its arguably that you would want Kid, but as far as who was the better player, its not even close....

What year(s) was AI a top 5 player? I'd day top 5 scorer some years yes but not sure a top 5 player, they sent necessarily the same thing.

[TodayIsForgotten]

What year(s) was AI a top 5 player? I'd day top 5 scorer some years yes but not sure a top 5 player, they sent necessarily the same thing.

Probably the 4 years he won the scoring title. Since, you know -that's a huge stat in regards to the NBA.

[BernardMadoff]

Probably the 4 years he won the scoring title. Since, you know -that's a huge stat in regards to the NBA.

Just keeping discussion open wouldn't necessarily disagree with anyone who feels he was but many different people have won scoring titles, I don't consider Mcgrady a top 5 player at any time.

[jsmithj88]

Just keeping discussion open wouldn't necessarily disagree with anyone who feels he was but many different people have won scoring titles, I don't consider Mcgrady a top 5 player at any time.

thats a great point. cuz t-mac in orlando put up more impressive number in his orlando run than iverson. sixers had a great coach and one of the better defenses in the league, u couldnt say either for the magic at the time.

[clarkd32]

jkidd could dominate a game without even scoring... and look what he did to the nets when he got there his first couple of years. the nets went from winning like 10 games a year to the nba finals.

[Kobe Stopper]

what about longevity people?

[Goat Milk]

Just keeping discussion open wouldn't necessarily disagree with anyone who feels he was but many different people have won scoring titles, I don't consider Mcgrady a top 5 player at any time.

Come on Bernard, Tmac was never a top 5 player?

Bro, before there was Wade and Lebron and Durant and all these guys, when Shaq was at the downfall of his career, and Steve Nash was winning back to back MVPs, Kobe vs. Mcgrady was the greatest Rivalry there was in the NBA.

McGrady was a guy that could do things at will it was pretty nuts- he has the wingspan of a center and is one of the greatest passers I've personally ever seen at that position. McGrady was certainly a top 2-3 player during a year/or two in orlando and certinatly was the first year he came to Houston when he had the greatest single-handed comeback performance in NBA history. Please don't say Shaq was a top 5 player in 05. AFter 2003, Shaq dropped to a top 15-20 player in the league in my opinion. Some of the first-team all NBA votes he got in like 04 and 05 were simply because the NBA sucked at the Center position. Duncan/Garnett might be the only PFs in that top 5 discussion, maybe Dirk. Amare was getting good too, a superstar really who never needed Nash, but those guys weren't top 5 in those years in my opinion. I don't know who else you would put in the discussion- Nash? I don't know, I guess you can argue that, but I never considered Nash a top 5 player even during the years he won the MVPs. I think Mcgrady and Iverson were certainly top 5 players in their careers, particularly McGrady, even though Iverson had the better career, McGrady was one of the most dominant players in the league because of his athleticism and length. Durant took a lot of what he knows from Mcgrady, although he was never the passer Tmac was.

I think the only thing we can agree thats constant, is that Kobe has been a top 5 player in the NBA for nearly the last decade.

[BernardMadoff]

Come on Bernard, Tmac was never a top 5 player?

Bro, before there was Wade and Lebron and Durant and all these guys, when Shaq was at the downfall of his career, and Steve Nash was winning back to back MVPs, Kobe vs. Mcgrady was the greatest Rivalry there was in the NBA.

McGrady was a guy that could do things at will it was pretty nuts- he has the wingspan of a center and is one of the greatest passers I've personally ever seen at that position. McGrady was certainly a top 2-3 player during a year/or two in orlando and certinatly was the first year he came to Houston when he had the greatest single-handed comeback performance in NBA history. Please don't say Shaq was a top 5 player in 05. AFter 2003, Shaq dropped to a top 15-20 player in the league in my opinion. Some of the first-team all NBA votes he got in like 04 and 05 were simply because the NBA sucked at the Center position. Duncan/Garnett might be the only PFs in that top 5 discussion, maybe Dirk. Amare was getting good too, a superstar really who never needed Nash, but those guys weren't top 5 in those years in my opinion. I don't know who else you would put in the discussion- Nash? I don't know, I guess you can argue that, but I never considered Nash a top 5 player even during the years he won the MVPs. I think Mcgrady and Iverson were certainly top 5 players in their careers, particularly McGrady, even though Iverson had the better career, McGrady was one of the most dominant players in the league because of his athleticism and length. Durant took a lot of what he knows from Mcgrady, although he was never the passer Tmac was.

I think the only thing we can agree thats constant, is that Kobe has been a top 5 player in the NBA for nearly the last decade.

Again I think we are getting top 5 scorers and top 5 players intertwined. I wont argue if one says McGrady was a top 5 scorer some years, he did win the scoring title 2 years straight, so I wont argue that, but I and probably many people would name 5 top players before they name McGrady at any time during his career.

[Goat Milk]

Again I think we are getting top 5 scorers and top 5 players intertwined. I wont argue if one says McGrady was a top 5 scorer some years, he did win the scoring title 2 years straight, so I wont argue that, but I and probably many people would name 5 top players before they name McGrady at any time during his career.

ok, who would be on your list then lets say for the 04-05 season and don't just name the guys that made All NBA first team because as we know its way harder to make that list at the Guard position than it is at the Forward/Center position. And where did i talk about scoring. Mcgrady was one of the greatest overall players we've seen in the league in a long time. Him and Grant Hill were both exceptional passers and rebounders. Kobe Bryant has been the best player in the league since 2004 up until today where it's back to up in the air. Unlike Shaq, Bryant continued to get better ever year. Shaq peaked after he won his final ring with LA, then when he went to Miami, he was obviously a second option on that team, and no where near a top 10 player in the league at that time.

[minet123]

Iverson

[BernardMadoff]

ok, who would be on your list then lets say for the 04-05 season and don't just name the guys that made All NBA first team because as we know its way harder to make that list at the Guard position than it is at the Forward/Center position. And where did i talk about scoring. Mcgrady was one of the greatest overall players we've seen in the league in a long time. Him and Grant Hill were both exceptional passers and rebounders. Kobe Bryant has been the best player in the league since 2004 up until today where it's back to up in the air. Unlike Shaq, Bryant continued to get better ever year. Shaq peaked after he won his final ring with LA, then when he went to Miami, he was obviously a second option on that team, and no where near a top 10 player in the league at that time.

I knew youd go there lol, I havent even thought about it deeply but I'll just throw a few names out there. In no particular order, players Id PROBABLY pick before McGrady are, Nowitzki, Garnett, Kidd, Bryant, Nash, Iverson, Mcgrady. So off the top of my head he would be in top 7 no particular order, could be number 3 or 4 or 5. Come to think of it he's really right there, guess I hadnt thought it all out beforehand. He's right up there. Cant disagree with him not being top 5 at all. Over his career, top 5 during his era? Out of all of those other players? Dont think I can say that.

[St8Ca$homie]

Kidd made the shitty Nets relevant back in the days

76er's team that AI brought to the finals was much worse. Maybe the worse is history. Id take AI in a second , the 76er's NEVER put a decent team around him. Hes a much better O player , better defender , underrated passer , 100% everynight ... and most important , AI has something very few players have. Theres only a handful of them in the league at one time. AI had the ability to WIN the game for you in the last 2-3 minutes. Theres something to be said about a closer , about a guy that can make the shot when everyone knows hes getting the ball. Love Kidd , but AI all day.

[St8Ca$homie]

AI had something very few players had/have , he could win the game for you in the last 2-3 minutes. Closers dont come along that often. Plus the team he brought to the finals was maybe the worst team ever to make it to that far.

[Goat Milk]

I knew youd go there lol, I havent even thought about it deeply but I'll just throw a few names out there. In no particular order, players Id PROBABLY pick before McGrady are, Nowitzki, Garnett, Kidd, Bryant, Nash, Iverson, Mcgrady. So off the top of my head he would be in top 7 no particular order, could be number 3 or 4 or 5. Come to think of it he's really right there, guess I hadnt thought it all out beforehand. He's right up there. Cant disagree with him not being top 5 at all. Over his career, top 5 during his era? Out of all of those other players? Dont think I can say that.

Fair enough. Those are all great players, personally I think for like a 5 year span Mcgrady was in that conversation for best SG in the league. Iverson did it for more years, but wasn't as good as Tmac for those like 5 years or so. Jason Kidd and Nash are the two best pg's of the era for sure I think, but they just were not that well rounded to be dominant players imo. Nash was always a defensive liability so I was pissed when he won those two MVPs. It really was a travesty that he won two in a row. They just seem to dismiss defense from part of the discussion of being a great player. Duncan was a top 5 player for a couple of years probably. Him, Garnett, and Dirk are three of the greatest PFs ever to play. Personally I loved Chris Webber, at the 7 foot tall position, the guy was truly a gifted passer

Anyway there are guys in the league now that will go down as better players than 95% of the guys we just mentioned, specifically- James and Wade, who I think will both go down as top 10 players ever to play the game. They will get their rings. Its inevitable. Durant has the potential to really be in that best player in the world discussion (current- not all time obviously) if he improved his defense and passing ability. Bryant said that "Durant will go down as the greatest scorer ever to play the game when its all said and done." Wow.