Warning: Trying to access array offset on null in phar://.../vb/vb.phar/bbcode/url.php on line 2 Notice: str_replace(): Passing null to parameter #3 ($subject) of type array|string is deprecated in phar://.../vb/vb.phar/string.php on line 3 Warning: Trying to access array offset on null in phar://.../vb/vb.phar/bbcode/url.php on line 2 Notice: str_replace(): Passing null to parameter #3 ($subject) of type array|string is deprecated in phar://.../vb/vb.phar/string.php on line 3 Very interesting 2022 Baseball HOF vote ballot - Sportsbook Review Forum

Very interesting 2022 Baseball HOF vote ballot

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  • Doublethink
    SBR Sharp
    • 05-21-21
    • 415

    #1
    Very interesting 2022 Baseball HOF vote ballot

    Who U got?
    I still say Don Mattingly should be voted in. Equal numbers to Kirby Puckett career.
    I will say it over and over but he will be continually denied because he played on bad Yankee teams and the writers will not accept that.
    Last edited by Doublethink; 11-22-21, 11:23 PM.
  • JacketFan81
    SBR MVP
    • 10-28-17
    • 1742

    #2
    Honestly I'm surprised Mattingly isn't in already
    Comment
    • Doublethink
      SBR Sharp
      • 05-21-21
      • 415

      #3
      Thank you.

      Somebody here knows an unrecognized great player. It's too bad his bad back halted his career but he is still equal to Puckett. But Kirby got a World Series title. Mattingly played in a Series payoff once. Playing on bad Yankee teams doesn't go well with the press writers.
      Comment
      • jjgold
        SBR Aristocracy
        • 07-20-05
        • 388179

        #4
        Mattingly no way and never hit in pressure

        Teams never won

        Ricky Henderson also was always on 3rd base inflating his stats
        Comment
        • Tanko
          SBR Hall of Famer
          • 09-19-09
          • 5140

          #5
          The big question is does Bonds make it on his last year on the HOF ballot along with several others.
          Comment
          • MinnesotaFats
            SBR Posting Legend
            • 12-18-10
            • 14758

            #6
            Guys

            When Kirbys career ended- cut short by a ball to the face, he had the 2nd highest career BA (.319) of any AL right handed batter, behind only Joe DiMaggio.

            You cannot compare Kirby to Mattingly. Donnie baseball is a second teir player.
            Comment
            • Doublethink
              SBR Sharp
              • 05-21-21
              • 415

              #7
              Comment
              • 209 Life
                SBR MVP
                • 09-15-18
                • 3146

                #8
                Put the Giants legends in the HOF. Barry Bonds & Tim Lincecum
                Comment
                • ChuckyTheGoat
                  BARRELED IN @ SBR!
                  • 04-04-11
                  • 37145

                  #9
                  Voter boycott has kept Schilling out. Joke that Schilling isn't in yet.

                  This could be a very thin year. No idea on the Veterans Committee. Anyone they're hot on?

                  Schilling IMHO will get in this year or next year. ARod and MannyRam won't as continued boycott of PED-connected players.

                  Two players that I'd HOPE the Vet Comm gets warm to: 1) Bobby Grich, 2) Lou Whitaker.

                  Grich, Whitaker, AND Schilling have very high WAR ratings. > 70 WAR for each, well above many players who are already in.
                  Where's the fuckin power box, Carol?
                  Comment
                  • Chi_archie
                    SBR Aristocracy
                    • 07-22-08
                    • 63165

                    #10
                    Let Mattingly win a WS as manager and put him in.

                    he was good for a span, not great.

                    he had lower rapes over replacement value vs Puckett for sure, so that helps

                    Mattingly also has kept his weight under 300 and avoided fatal strokes due to hypertension and never lost his eyesight due to Glaucoma

                    I like his chances, going forward
                    Comment
                    • BuckyOne
                      SBR MVP
                      • 01-02-15
                      • 2728

                      #11

                      Stats


                      Career stats
                      [COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.541176)]



                      1995
                      Twins


                      137
                      538
                      83
                      169
                      99
                      56
                      89
                      23
                      3
                      1994
                      Twins


                      108
                      439
                      79
                      139
                      112
                      28
                      47
                      20
                      6
                      1993
                      Twins


                      156
                      622
                      89
                      184
                      89
                      47
                      93
                      22
                      8
                      1992
                      Twins


                      160
                      639
                      104
                      210
                      110
                      44
                      97
                      19
                      17
                      1991
                      Twins


                      152
                      611
                      92
                      195
                      89
                      31
                      78
                      15
                      11
                      1990
                      Twins


                      146
                      551
                      82
                      164
                      80
                      57
                      73
                      12
                      5
                      1989
                      Twins


                      159
                      635
                      75
                      215
                      85
                      41
                      59
                      9
                      11
                      1988
                      Twins


                      158
                      657
                      109
                      234
                      121
                      23
                      83
                      24
                      6
                      1987
                      Twins


                      157
                      624
                      96
                      207
                      99
                      32
                      91
                      28
                      12
                      1986
                      Twins


                      161
                      680
                      119
                      223
                      96
                      34
                      99
                      31
                      20
                      1985
                      Twins


                      161
                      691
                      80
                      199
                      74
                      41
                      87
                      4
                      21
                      1984
                      Twins


                      128
                      557
                      63
                      165
                      31
                      16
                      69
                      0
                      14
                      Career
                      1,783
                      7,244
                      1,071
                      2,304
                      1,085
                      450
                      965
                      207
                      134





                      [/COLOR]
                      Kirby Pucket
                      Stats


                      Career stats
                      [COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.541176)]



                      1995
                      Twins


                      137
                      538
                      83
                      169
                      99
                      56
                      89
                      23
                      3
                      1994
                      Twins


                      108
                      439
                      79
                      139
                      112
                      28
                      47
                      20
                      6
                      1993
                      Twins


                      156
                      622
                      89
                      184
                      89
                      47
                      93
                      22
                      8
                      1992
                      Twins


                      160
                      639
                      104
                      210
                      110
                      44
                      97
                      19
                      17
                      1991
                      Twins


                      152
                      611
                      92
                      195
                      89
                      31
                      78
                      15
                      11
                      1990
                      Twins


                      146
                      551
                      82
                      164
                      80
                      57
                      73
                      12
                      5
                      1989
                      Twins


                      159
                      635
                      75
                      215
                      85
                      41
                      59
                      9
                      11
                      1988
                      Twins


                      158
                      657
                      109
                      234
                      121
                      23
                      83
                      24
                      6
                      1987
                      Twins


                      157
                      624
                      96
                      207
                      99
                      32
                      91
                      28
                      12
                      1986
                      Twins


                      161
                      680
                      119
                      223
                      96
                      34
                      99
                      31
                      20
                      1985
                      Twins


                      161
                      691
                      80
                      199
                      74
                      41
                      87
                      4
                      21
                      1984
                      Twins


                      128
                      557
                      63
                      165
                      31
                      16
                      69
                      0
                      14
                      Career
                      1,783
                      7,244
                      1,071
                      2,304
                      1,085
                      450
                      965
                      207
                      134





                      [/COLOR]


                      Don Mattingly
                      Stats


                      Career stats
                      [COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.541176)]



                      1995
                      Yankees


                      128
                      458
                      59
                      132
                      49
                      40
                      35
                      7
                      0
                      1994
                      Yankees


                      97
                      372
                      62
                      113
                      51
                      60
                      24
                      6
                      0
                      1993
                      Yankees


                      134
                      530
                      78
                      154
                      86
                      61
                      42
                      17
                      0
                      1992
                      Yankees


                      157
                      640
                      89
                      184
                      86
                      39
                      43
                      14
                      3
                      1991
                      Yankees


                      152
                      587
                      64
                      169
                      68
                      46
                      42
                      9
                      2
                      1990
                      Yankees


                      102
                      394
                      40
                      101
                      42
                      28
                      20
                      5
                      1
                      1989
                      Yankees


                      158
                      631
                      79
                      191
                      113
                      51
                      30
                      23
                      3
                      1988
                      Yankees


                      144
                      599
                      94
                      186
                      88
                      41
                      29
                      18
                      1
                      1987
                      Yankees


                      141
                      569
                      93
                      186
                      115
                      51
                      38
                      30
                      1
                      1986
                      Yankees


                      162
                      677
                      117
                      238
                      113
                      53
                      35
                      31
                      0
                      1985
                      Yankees


                      159
                      652
                      107
                      211
                      145
                      56
                      41
                      35
                      2
                      1984
                      Yankees


                      153
                      603
                      91
                      207
                      110
                      41
                      33
                      23
                      1
                      1983
                      Yankees


                      91
                      279
                      34
                      79
                      32
                      21
                      31
                      4
                      0
                      1982
                      Yankees


                      7
                      12
                      0
                      2
                      1
                      0
                      1
                      0
                      0
                      Career
                      1,785
                      7,003
                      1,007
                      2,153
                      1,099
                      588
                      444
                      222
                      14







                      [/COLOR]
                      Web results

                      Who cares? HOF is disrespectful of the other players. Elected by idiot sportswriters who could never evaluate and compare talent as a manager. Absolutely, no clue about defensive abilities and can only read stats!










                      Comment
                      • gummo
                        SBR Hall of Famer
                        • 09-04-06
                        • 6297

                        #12
                        Big Papi is the only lock.
                        Comment
                        • TommieGunshot
                          SBR MVP
                          • 03-27-12
                          • 1597

                          #13
                          There are at least 50 players better than Mattingly who never made the Hall-of-Fame. Probably more like 100. Based on that, he is clearly not even close to being deserving.
                          Comment
                          • franklee168
                            SBR Hall of Famer
                            • 03-06-11
                            • 5544

                            #14
                            There can't be a Hall of Fame without the homerun leader in it. It would just be a building.
                            Comment
                            • Doublethink
                              SBR Sharp
                              • 05-21-21
                              • 415

                              #15
                              Originally posted by MinnesotaFats
                              Guys

                              When Kirbys career ended- cut short by a ball to the face, he had the 2nd highest career BA (.319) of any AL right handed batter, behind only Joe DiMaggio.

                              You cannot compare Kirby to Mattingly. Donnie baseball is a second teir player.
                              You cannot compare Mattingly to Puckett? I just did. Not only did Mattingly win 9 GG he happened to be in NY at the same time as Keith Hernandez who won 11. Again making him not look so good. Kirby won 6 GG. Don Mattingly's career ended with a bad back.
                              Comment
                              • pavyracer
                                SBR Aristocracy
                                • 04-12-07
                                • 82639

                                #16
                                Fred McGriff better stats than Mattingly and not in the HOF. You can't let everyone in. Then it is not special if everyome becomes a member.
                                Comment
                                • TommieGunshot
                                  SBR MVP
                                  • 03-27-12
                                  • 1597

                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by Doublethink
                                  You cannot compare Mattingly to Puckett? I just did. Not only did Mattingly win 9 GG he happened to be in NY at the same time as Keith Hernandez who won 11. Again making him not look so good. Kirby won 6 GG. Don Mattingly's career ended with a bad back.
                                  Keith Hernandez was better defensively, better offensively, longer career, and did more in the postseason than Mattingly. Yet Hernandez is not in the Hall-of-Fame, never even above 10% of the vote of the sports writers. That makes it completely clear that Mattingly did not even come close to standards of the Hall-of-Fame and is clearly not deserving.
                                  Comment
                                  • Doublethink
                                    SBR Sharp
                                    • 05-21-21
                                    • 415

                                    #18
                                    A brief analysis if the McGriff, Hernandez, Mattingly, Puckett HOF debate. McGriff 19 yrs. 2490 hits, fielding % .992, 8985 PO, 1775 DP, 1447 assists, 1349 runs scored, 10 post season Series. Hernandez, 16 yrs. 2182 hits, fielding % .994, 17909 PO, 1682 assists, 1124 runs scored,5 post season Series. Mattingly 13 yrs. 2153 hits, fielding % .996, 14148 PO, 1104 assists, 1 post season Series. With Mattingly and Puckett being equal in numbers as stated above, then McGriff and Hernandez are better and Puckett and Mattingly are equal. I don't know why McGriff gets shunned but Hernandez snorting up the first base line might be hurting him.

                                    Correction McGriff 18985 PO. Also add McGriff played 2460 games at 1B started 159 of 174 at DH. Hernandez played 2014 at 1B and 7 in OF. Mattingly played 1634 games at 1B, 75 at DH, 76 OF, 3 at 3B and 1 at 2B as a lefty so 155 no 1B.
                                    Last edited by Doublethink; 12-01-21, 12:24 PM. Reason: correction McGriff
                                    Comment
                                    • Doublethink
                                      SBR Sharp
                                      • 05-21-21
                                      • 415

                                      #19
                                      Why St. Louis Cards traded Keith Hernandez..

                                      I always wondered why St. Louis got rid of Hernandez but ...
                                      Snorting up the 1st base line could be part of the reason. Or the reason he was gone.
                                      Last edited by Doublethink; 11-30-21, 03:34 PM.
                                      Comment
                                      • TommieGunshot
                                        SBR MVP
                                        • 03-27-12
                                        • 1597

                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by Doublethink
                                        I don't know why McGriff gets shunned but Hernandez snorting up the first base line might be hurting him.
                                        Like Mattingly, there are a lot of players better than McGriff not in the Hall-of-Fame, so it is easy to see why he didn't make it.
                                        Comment
                                        • Doublethink
                                          SBR Sharp
                                          • 05-21-21
                                          • 415

                                          #21
                                          Comment
                                          • TommieGunshot
                                            SBR MVP
                                            • 03-27-12
                                            • 1597

                                            #22
                                            C Freehan and Tenace
                                            1B Allen, Hernandez, McGwire and Palmerio
                                            2B Grich, Kent and Whitaker
                                            SS I guess Dahlen. Maybe Fregosi or Sewell if we are going with the past 100 years. Rodriguez will probably take over next month.
                                            3B Darrell Evans, Nettles and Rolen
                                            LF Bonds, Minoso and Ramirez
                                            CF Edmonds, Andruw Jones and Reggie Smith
                                            RF Dwight Evans and Sosa

                                            I'm sure I missed some others. Mattingly doesn't come close and McGriff also falls short.
                                            Comment
                                            • DwightShrute
                                              SBR Aristocracy
                                              • 01-17-09
                                              • 102876

                                              #23
                                              Originally posted by Tanko
                                              The big question is does Bonds make it on his last year on the HOF ballot along with several others.
                                              He should never be in the HOF. Same with Pete Rose.
                                              Last edited by DwightShrute; 12-02-21, 10:28 AM.
                                              Comment
                                              • BuckyOne
                                                SBR MVP
                                                • 01-02-15
                                                • 2728

                                                #24
                                                HOF is a bad joke. Election process is flawed. All this talk about stats is comparing apples to oranges. Defensive,running,throwing skills are way under valued!

                                                Fans, owners, players, owners, managers are all biased.

                                                Some kind of electoral board should pick.

                                                Did the games count? Who cares if somebody was rude to a sportswriter or did not sign autographs?
                                                Comment
                                                • ChuckyTheGoat
                                                  BARRELED IN @ SBR!
                                                  • 04-04-11
                                                  • 37145

                                                  #25
                                                  Originally posted by BuckyOne
                                                  HOF is a bad joke. Election process is flawed. All this talk about stats is comparing apples to oranges. Defensive,running,throwing skills are way under valued!

                                                  Fans, owners, players, owners, managers are all biased.

                                                  Some kind of electoral board should pick.

                                                  Did the games count? Who cares if somebody was rude to a sportswriter or did not sign autographs?
                                                  Yes, Buck. Sometimes, the writers miss it by a mile. Look at some of the guys that don't even get5% vote.

                                                  Schilling non-admission is a joke. Why even have a vote? Schilling has one of the highest WARs and is not linked to PEDs/gambling.

                                                  2B/3B often get overlooked. Tough defensive positions. Solid two-way players like Grich/Whitaker/Nettles really should get a long look.
                                                  Where's the fuckin power box, Carol?
                                                  Comment
                                                  • Doublethink
                                                    SBR Sharp
                                                    • 05-21-21
                                                    • 415

                                                    #26
                                                    OK so here go with possible HOF candidates not in...

                                                    besides mentioned b4. Graig Nettles, nothing great. Dick Allen, controversial, rebellious. Dwight Evans, nothing special. Gene Tenace, nothing. Darrel Evans, shouldn't be in the conversation. Bill Freehan, Bobby Grich, NO. Lou Whitaker, Not even. Jeff Kent, possible. Scott Rolen, could be. Minnie Minoso, very borderline. Jim Edmonds, good numbers. Andrew Jones, maybe. Reggie smith, could be better. Dwight Evans, I don't think so. Vada Pinson, Al Oliver, looks good. Bill Buckner, possibly. Dave Parker, why not? Steve Garvey, looks good yes. Doc Cramer, good enough. Lane Cross, he should be in.
                                                    Comment
                                                    • ChuckyTheGoat
                                                      BARRELED IN @ SBR!
                                                      • 04-04-11
                                                      • 37145

                                                      #27
                                                      Double, go have another drink. You're off by a mile. Have another drink.

                                                      Garvey is one of only two 10x All-stars not in the HOF. Garvey had very strong wrists. But he wasn't a selective hitter, very low OBA.

                                                      Nettles was nothing special? Go watch the World Series high-lites, where he stole the show.
                                                      Where's the fuckin power box, Carol?
                                                      Comment
                                                      • Doublethink
                                                        SBR Sharp
                                                        • 05-21-21
                                                        • 415

                                                        #28
                                                        I said Garvey looks good. Nettles World Series high-lites don't get you in the HOF. 162 game avg. .248 134 hits 72 runs and 79 RBI. Not exactly HOF material.
                                                        Comment
                                                        • ChuckyTheGoat
                                                          BARRELED IN @ SBR!
                                                          • 04-04-11
                                                          • 37145

                                                          #29
                                                          Double, the Baseball HOF induction process is flawed. It starts w/ the writers being historically poor voters.

                                                          Secondly, the Veterans Committee is biased. The Baines induction via his GM/Mgr/Teammate was a joke and lowered the bar.

                                                          Baseball is a great game for Individual stat analysis. Garvey has a lot to like, but his low OBA (.329) isn't good enuf for a 1st baseman:
                                                          Check out the latest Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Rookie Status & More of Steve Garvey. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, draft status, bats, throws, school and more on Baseball-reference.com


                                                          Nettles actually has a much higher WAR. Some of his statistics are similar to Garvey's. But he played a tougher defensive position, so his defensive contribution is much higher:
                                                          Check out the latest Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Rookie Status & More of Graig Nettles. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, draft status, bats, throws, school and more on Baseball-reference.com
                                                          Where's the fuckin power box, Carol?
                                                          Comment
                                                          • ChuckyTheGoat
                                                            BARRELED IN @ SBR!
                                                            • 04-04-11
                                                            • 37145

                                                            #30
                                                            Double, remember this play? Dodgers vs Yankees, pretty funny:

                                                            Where's the fuckin power box, Carol?
                                                            Comment
                                                            • Doublethink
                                                              SBR Sharp
                                                              • 05-21-21
                                                              • 415

                                                              #31
                                                              Of course I remember the play. Jackson luckily got away clean. But since we're talking Yanks I want to talk about Craig Nettles. I grew up a Yankee fan starting in the '60s. I really had no choice since my father was a die hard but OK I was in on it. He made some great plays and since I played 3rd base growing up he was fun to watch. I was a fan of him but he isn't a HOFr. When we were kids it was the guy's batting average, runs scored, RBI's and homers were what mattered. Today it is WAR. I really don't understand it but it is a highly used number. Can someone explain what the hell wins above replacement is about? It seems to make sense about numbers but I just don't get it.
                                                              Comment
                                                              • Doublethink
                                                                SBR Sharp
                                                                • 05-21-21
                                                                • 415

                                                                #32
                                                                I remember back in the day Sparky Anderson saying "Munson couldn't shine Bench's shoes."
                                                                Comment
                                                                • ChuckyTheGoat
                                                                  BARRELED IN @ SBR!
                                                                  • 04-04-11
                                                                  • 37145

                                                                  #33
                                                                  Double, it's a more Modern view on Baseball stats. WAR tries to cut thru the historical view on stats, where certain Stat biases exist.

                                                                  WAR stands for Wins Above Replacement. So, WAR attempts to determine a player's true value to his team. How many extra wins does he contribute, vs a low-end Major Leaguer who might replace him.

                                                                  I think WAR has gained a good bit of traction in the Sabermetric community. It's pretty clear that Batting Average is historically over-valued as a stand-alone stat. I go back to the "Moneyball" about getting on base. Ergo, On-Base % is a much better stat than BA.

                                                                  I have come to give great regard to disciplined hitters who work the count and wear pitchers out. Olerud/EdgarMart on the Seattle teams come to mind.

                                                                  Defense and Performance relative to position are important. I'll reference another guy from your list above, Dwight Evans. Sabermetricians view DEvans as an excellent player. He's a classic case of the undervalued player who is now more appreciated. Evans walked a lot, which pushed his OBA up. Could really bat him anywhere in the Top/Middle of the lineup. And his defense was very good. In particular, his throwing arm was excellent. Teams eventually didn't try to run on him.

                                                                  See my Garvey vs Nettles comparison. Garvey MOSTLY played 1b, except for some early days at 3b. Nettles MOSTLY played 3b. Garvey and Nettles each won Gold Gloves.

                                                                  But 3b is CLEARLY a tougher position, so IMHO he has to be the better player. Third-basemen are in pretty short supply in the HOF. Arguably, the one position that demands Defensive prowess and expects power production (from the Corner IF/OF).
                                                                  Where's the fuckin power box, Carol?
                                                                  Comment
                                                                  • Doublethink
                                                                    SBR Sharp
                                                                    • 05-21-21
                                                                    • 415

                                                                    #34
                                                                    Is that the year he hit 3 consecutive homers on 3 swings?
                                                                    Comment
                                                                    • Doublethink
                                                                      SBR Sharp
                                                                      • 05-21-21
                                                                      • 415

                                                                      #35
                                                                      Craig Nettles WAR 67.9 Steve Garvey 38.1. Does that make him twice as good? That's what I don't understand about it.
                                                                      Comment
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