Best pitcher of all time Roger Clemens or Clayton Kershaw?

[kmarinouofm]

Sandy Kaufax
Roger Clemens
Randy Johnson
Bob Gibson
...don't laugh, but Johan Santana was unhittable for 5 years, thou Maddox probably gets the nod in my #5 spot

santana had one nasty changeup

[swordsandtequila]

Mahomes 1 good year
Watson no
Russel Wilson same stats as Cam Newton...but I do like Cam and Wilson, always feel they are gamers....but young careers

Kirk better career than all them so far, no question about it

[stevenash]

In 1972 Steve Carlton went 27 and 10 for a Phillies team that was 59 and 97
Think about that, Carlton won 46 percent of the Phillies victories that year!
I believe the only man ever to win a Cy Young award for a dead last team.

33 times he pitched eight full innings.
29 times he pitched nine full innings.
Today's rotation starters if they make every turn get 34 starts.
3 times he pitched 10 full innings or more.

Look at the string of complete games from July 19 to October 3.
Who does that?

Date	IP	H	R	ER	BB	SO	HR
Apr 15	8	4	2	2	2	5	0
Apr 19	9	3	0	0	0	5	0
Apr 25	9	1	0	0	1	14	0
Apr 29	8	6	4	4	4	10	0
May 3	9	6	1	1	1	9	0
May 7	9	7	3	3	1	13	1
May 13	7	7	3	2	2	6	0
May 17	9	6	3	3	3	8	2
May 21	9	6	4	4	3	9	2
May 26	7	10	5	4	4	9	0
May 30	4.1	8	6	6	3	6	0
Jun 3	7	7	4	4	1	8	2
Jun 7	7	5	1	1	3	11	0
Jun 11	9	9	1	1	1	9	0
Jun 16	10	6	0	0	4	12	0
Jun 21	5	9	5	5	1	4	1
Jun 25	9	4	0	0	3	8	0
Jun 29	9	7	4	4	6	13	0
Jul 3	9	6	2	2	2	7	2
Jul 7(1)	9	9	2	2	1	8	0
Jul 11	9	5	1	0	1	8	0
Jul 15	5	5	4	4	1	5	2
Jul 19	11	7	2	2	4	8	0
Jul 23	9	5	0	0	1	6	0
Jul 28	9	4	0	0	1	7	0
Aug 1(2)	9	5	1	0	1	5	0
Aug 5	9	5	0	0	1	7	0
Aug 9	9	3	0	0	1	12	0
Aug 13(1)	9	3	1	1	3	8	1
Aug 17	9	7	4	4	4	2	0
Aug 21	11	7	2	2	3	10	0
Aug 26	8	12	3	3	1	4	1
Aug 30	6	3	3	3	4	3	0
Sep 3	9	5	0	0	3	4	0
Sep 7	9	9	1	1	2	9	0
Sep 11	9	8	4	4	4	5	1
Sep 15	9	10	3	1	3	4	1
Sep 20	9	6	1	1	2	2	0
Sep 24	8	7	2	1	0	9	1
Sep 28	9	6	1	0	0	11	0
Oct 3	9	9	1	1	1	7	0
	346.1	257	84	76	87	310	17

[beavis13]

Babe Ruth as long as he was batting too

[MinnesotaFats]

Steve Carlton also LOST 20 games the year after and 19 the year before

He was a baller for sure, but Carlton to me is nothing more than a left handed Bert Blyleven

He is not better than Randy Johnson or Kaufax as far as lefties go do you think?

[chico2663]

neither.
seaver,fergie.nolan,marichal,koufax(cinc y basketball player) walter johnson.clemons sp was a juice head.

[Slipknot26]

Walter Johnson , only 2 years above 1.9 ERA, with the highest 2.2 over a 13 year period
1913 he went 36-7 , ERA of 1.14, unbelievable regardless of the time .
Oh yea , only 110 shutouts also .
Yes baseball is way different but that also includes pitching , that's some sick shit right there

[str]

Bob Gibson

He is currently fighting pancreatic cancer at age 83.

Because of him, they lowered the mound.

Lifetime 2.91 ERA.

He changed the game.

Seen a lot of great pitchers but in my mind he was no doubt the greatest right handed pitcher I have ever seen.

[stevenash]

Steve Carlton also LOST 20 games the year after and 19 the year before

He was a baller for sure, but Carlton to me is nothing more than a left handed Bert Blyleven

He is not better than Randy Johnson or Kaufax as far as lefties go do you think?

Of course not, I was just pointing out one single season.
Gibson's season will never be duplicated either.

You mentioned Santana before, he was a joy to watch,
I'll give you a name. JR Richard.

Who was better Koufax or Randy Johnson?
Umm, neither. Flip a coin I can't decide, both of them all great LHP's.
Great LHP's too,
What about Whitey Ford? MadBum
Glavine
Carlton (still belongs here)
Kershaw
I already mentioned Koufax and Unit.

(Old Timers)
Lefty Grove
Warren Spahn
Carl Hubbell.

[philliesfinest]

bob gibson and steve carlton in my opinion

[MinnesotaFats]

Of course not, I was just pointing out one single season.
Gibson's season will never be duplicated either.

You mentioned Santana before, he was a joy to watch,
I'll give you a name. JR Richard.

Who was better Koufax or Randy Johnson?
Umm, neither. Flip a coin I can't decide, both of them all great LHP's.
Great LHP's too,
What about Whitey Ford? MadBum
Glavine
Carlton (still belongs here)
Kershaw
I already mentioned Koufax and Unit.

(Old Timers)
Lefty Grove
Warren Spahn
Carl Hubbell.

Grove 27-33 won 80% of his starts. Something like 140-40, insane stat given no WS win

[allabout the $$$]

You guys discount pedro and it's really disappointing. For a guy who pitched in the juice ball era he had an era under 2.5 every year but 1 from 97 to 03 and the one year was 2.89 and 2 of those years it was under 2

[MinnesotaFats]

I acknowledge Pedro, but his 5 year run was like so many others (Santana, Viola, Hershiser, Valenzuela, etc).

I still think he was on something, I can't understand how that twig got so much movement and no injuries.

Sharing a locker room w Manny, Papi and Garciaparra I'm sure he took some juice

[sourtwist]

I acknowledge Pedro, but his 5 year run was like so many others (Santana, Viola, Hershiser, Valenzuela, etc).

I still think he was on something, I can't understand how that twig got so much movement and no injuries.

Sharing a locker room w Manny, Papi and Garciaparra I'm sure he took some juice

People think steroids are only made to make you big

Couldn't be further from the truth

Pedro could have absolutely been using steroids, but i never thought he did

[allabout the $$$]

I acknowledge Pedro, but his 5 year run was like so many others (Santana, Viola, Hershiser, Valenzuela, etc).

I still think he was on something, I can't understand how that twig got so much movement and no injuries.

Sharing a locker room w Manny, Papi and Garciaparra I'm sure he took some juice

5 year run? He was 219-100 with an era under 3 for his career.

[stevenash]

You guys discount pedro and it's really disappointing. For a guy who pitched in the juice ball era he had an era under 2.5 every year but 1 from 97 to 03 and the one year was 2.89 and 2 of those years it was under 2

I was talking about lefties.
Pedro and Maddux were the two best RHP's of this generation.
I'm not counting Clemens.

[MinnesotaFats]

5 year run? He was 219-100 with an era under 3 for his career.

That 97-03 run...thou he was hurt 1 year, he was 100 games over .500, that's what I was referring to. He was incredibly gifted, but benefitted from playing on a team that won 90+ games every year. Last 6 years and first 5 years ERA was 3.50+, just that he played on great teams....even his Expos days were during that run they had.

Not like Clemens taking the rock for mediocre Blue Jay's squad, or a decling Red Sox franchise and still pumping out 20 wins per year in 3 different decades!

[allabout the $$$]

That 97-03 run...thou he was hurt 1 year, he was 100 games over .500, that's what I was referring to. He was incredibly gifted, but benefitted from playing on a team that won 90+ games every year. Last 6 years and first 5 years ERA was 3.50+, just that he played on great teams....even his Expos days were during that run they had.

Not like Clemens taking the rock for mediocre Blue Jay's squad, or a decling Red Sox franchise and still pumping out 20 wins per year in 3 different decades!

pretty obvious he was on the juice for those toronto and yankees teams.

[MinnesotaFats]

pretty obvious he was on the juice for those toronto and yankees teams.

I actually disagree

You know that congress indicted him based on McNamees statements. He was tried twice, and found Not Guilty.

To have never been suspended, tested positive for nor had the Federal Government find any wrong doing then that's good enough for me.

GOAT

[allabout the $$$]

I actually disagree

You know that congress indicted him based on McNamees statements. He was tried twice, and found Not Guilty.

To have never been suspended, tested positive for nor had the Federal Government find any wrong doing then that's good enough for me.

GOAT

i got a bridge in brooklyn id like to sell you too!

look at his records last 3 years in boston then all of a sudden boom.

you know bonds was never proven to have taken anything either

[gummo]

Walter Johnson and his 164.3 WAR