Programming Preferences (Diverted from Research Thread)

[PAULYPOKER]

Wow Monkeys the dominant one on this side of town I'm impressed

[Maverick22]

He's not the most dominant. He's just yelling the most and the loudest....

Those aren't equal descriptions.

I never attacked your integrity. Nor did i use incorrect terminology... But nice try trying to play the victim.

[Maverick22]

Relatively similar? LOL. I hope you're joking.

Some people have only box scores, some have play by play data, some have pitch by pitch data, some people have linked line history tables, some people have closing number columns, some have linked player tables with keys, some have individual tables for each game, some people perform simple system or prop queries, some perform a series of queries to populate and process a model, etc., etc., etc., etc., etc. Not to mention, there are probably more than 3 billion ways that one can go about doing the exact same thing.

AGAIN, IT ALL DEPENDS ON YOUR DATASET AND HOW YOU PLAN ON USING YOUR DATA!!!!!!!

Anyone whose profession is in data warehousing should be able to grasp this simple concept the first time they are told. However, they certainly shouldn't need to be told this in the first place.

Hmm... Not to belabor the point. But you have used all those words to describe differences in data granularity...

If someones database only goes as "specific" as a pitch by pitch data. That database had better roll up to be equal to another database that only goes to the per-inning box score. So I fail to see your point again.

These differences in "strategy" only strengthen my point about comparing the various data models.

Then you are harp about all the way people are using their database... Which is irrelevant to your beginning point. And irrelvenant to our discussion of data modelling... (Those are sql issues, not design issues)

I'll give you five points for trying though

[MonkeyF0cker]

Monkey, You shouldnt speak on things you know nothing about. I do data warehousing for a living...

I would be interested if poeple shared their database data models.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_model#Database_model

Table structure ≠ Data model

Care to recant, genius?

[Maverick22]

Hmm... After I post this link... I think our argument is over. You my friend are an idiot.

1) Who actually references wikipedia as a source of information? You should know better than that.

2) Where in your wikipedia link, did it say anything not aligning to what i said?

2a) From your prized link: "A database model is a theory or specification describing how a database is structured and used." So how is a datamodel not a depiction of the table layout?

3) For Further Reading, not from a wikipedia page: http://www.agiledata.org/essays/dataModeling101.html

4) I leave you with this: "Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference"

[MonkeyF0cker]

Hmm... Not to belabor the point. But you have used all those words to describe differences in data granularity...

If someones database only goes as "specific" as a pitch by pitch data. That database had better roll up to be equal to another database that only goes to the per-inning box score. So I fail to see your point again.

These differences in "strategy" only strengthen my point about comparing the various data models.

Then you are harp about all the way people are using their database... Which is irrelevant to your beginning point. And irrelvenant to our discussion of data modelling... (Those are sql issues, not design issues)

I'll give you five points for trying though

God, you're an idiot. It has absolutely nothing to do with granularity. You asked to see "How the tables in the databases are set up. I want to see how off/on the mark I am." You didn't ask to compare "various data models" and their implicit strategies. Funny how your tune has completely changed. You do realize the shit you said yesterday didn't vanish into thin air, right? LOL.

And the way people use the data is a CRITICAL part of those strategies implemented in table design. Unless you enjoy running multiple queries against millions of rows of data for no reason other than shoddy design in every step of the modelling process, IT'S A BIG FUKKING DEAL.

[MonkeyF0cker]

Hmm... After I post this link... I think our argument is over. You my friend are an idiot.

1) Who actually references wikipedia as a source of information? You should know better than that.

2) Where in your wikipedia link, did it say anything not aligning to what i said?

2a) From your prized link: "A database model is a theory or specification describing how a database is structured and used." So how is a datamodel not a depiction of the table layout?

3) For Further Reading, not from a wikipedia page: http://www.agiledata.org/essays/dataModeling101.html

4) I leave you with this: "Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference"

LOL. A wikipedia reference is your best argument? Good God. Nobody calls a table layout a data model. A data model is the type of topology you implement. For fuk's sake.

[Maverick22]

Lets say you have two databases. One in a star schema. And one In a Snowflake Schema. With identical Data, but represented in two different ways. ( ie the table structure).

Any arbitrary program should be able to use both. All that would change would be the sql to get said data (and ONLY the sql) .... So once again, i dont see your argument...

If the previous isnt true, there is a serious design flaw.

And to put this a working example... a flat file is a TYPE of database...With only a single table, and no relations...

A relational data base like mine has multiple(5 for me) tables and they are all related by various unique keys...

A measure like "Number Of RBI by Joe Mauer In The Postseason with Only 1 Man On Base" will be the same regardless of which database it came from...

Only the sql will change to actually get this information...

So if some "blackbox" program were to take this statistic and do something magical to it to produce something else.. It's logic doesnt change... Only the program or routine that actually gets this statistic data from the datasource... Surely a "programmer at the CBOE" would know this...

And my tone has never changed...

[MonkeyF0cker]

I guess you have no concept of efficiency. You realize that these databases are used by some people (including myself) for far more advanced statistical tasks than finding some player's RBI total? The last thing I'm going to do is explain my methodologies here. Maybe some day you'll comprehend this.

And how has your tone not changed? You've gone from trying to compare table structures to saying that it doesn't matter how it's structured. LOL.

[Maverick22]

Your "advanced statistical stats" are only derivatives of the basis stats. You are acting like your making wine from water.

Any stat you are derived is STILL a product of much simpler statistics...

If you think a program should be custom built for a SINGLE database and its structure... Then you are not a very good software designer...

You are confusing application design logic with database design logic...

Something makes me want to think, you arent the big and bad programmer you want everyone to think you are.

The final product application should give the same results regardless of its source...

For example your mystical statistical tasks program. If you pointed whatever does your ETL to my database... The sql would need modifying, yet your "magical values" will remain the same... That is unless your program is whacked...Which i would bet good money is...

When your applications can make gold from iron. I will respect what you are saying. Programming isnt exactly a rare industry commodity. You might have some less technical people fooled...but you dont fool me...

[MonkeyF0cker]

Jesus Christ. Do you know how many pitches are thrown in an MLB season?

[PAULYPOKER]

He's not the most dominant. He's just yelling the most and the loudest.... Those aren't equal descriptions. I never attacked your integrity. Nor did i use incorrect terminology... But nice try trying to play the victim.

You Math wizards are all the same you even have your own language

[Maverick22]

Yes... And what does that prove? Would you like to see some sql on how that is done in my db? ( not that it proves much). LOL.

[MonkeyF0cker]

I have over 2GB of pitch by pitch data near the end of the season. And I'm supposed to just run select statements on every batter and pitcher that's in uniform that day from that heaping table? LOL. You just don't get it. You have no idea how my model functions.

Umm. Of course you'd only change your scraper. LOL. No fukkin shit.

The big difference that you really don't seem to fukkin comprehend is that I'm dealing with pitch by pitch data that has information like pitch speed, location, spin, type, release point, etc. I'm processing SHITLOADS of data. I'm not querying to find out if Joe Mauer hit a homerun on July 17th.

[Flying Dutchman]

We have a phrase here in Holland and it translates into something like:

Before you wrestle with pigs, remember that they like to get dirty.

[Maverick22]

I have over 2GB of pitch by pitch data near the end of the season. And I'm supposed to just run select statements on every batter and pitcher that's in uniform that day from that heaping table? LOL. You just don't get it. You have no idea how my model functions.

Umm. Of course you'd only change your scraper. LOL. No fukkin shit.

The big difference that you really don't seem to fukkin comprehend is that I'm dealing with pitch by pitch data that has information like pitch speed, location, spin, type, release point, etc. I'm processing SHITLOADS of data. I'm not querying to find out if Joe Mauer hit a homerun on July 17th.

I HIGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHLY DOUBT you have 2GB Worth Of PItching Data.... You are talking out of your ass. So I call Bullshit.

If your model uses various data around a pitch..Then Good for you.

And i dont know what your model does... And if it calcs based on 'release points' and 'x/y axis spin' then again... Then good for you...

But your rants are in no way related to ANY argument we have had...

Is that your way of saying "Maverick22, I concede Defeat"?

[MonkeyF0cker]

Jesus Christ, you're a moron. It's my way of saying that table structure depends on your dataset and your data needs, AS I'VE SAID ALL ALONG. I haven't had a season of less than 2.2 GB of pitch by pitch data. I am done with this conversation though. You obviously have no idea what you're talking about and I'm simply wasting my time.

[Maverick22]

Jesus Christ, you're a moron. It's my way of saying that table structure depends on your dataset and your data needs, AS I'VE SAID ALL ALONG. I haven't had a season of less than 2.2 GB of pitch by pitch data. I am done with this conversation though. You obviously have no idea what you're talking about and I'm simply wasting my time.

Good luck with your 2.2 GB of data... I still call bull shit...

I know where you got your information... And i can ASSURE you...
You dont have 2.2 GB worth of data for a single season.

I did the math in an offline conversation... And the ONLY way your database is 2GB is IF and ONLY IF you have over 20 seasons of data...

You seem like to pick fights, but you shouldnt pick fights with people more knowledgable than you... It only makes you look silly...

And to share with the group, b/c you have the ultimate database...

Please provide your sql for pulling the # of pitches for this year... as of yesterday and sorted by season...

I'll make a guess that one of the following will happen:

a) You wont do it...you will use swear words and tell me how stupid I am. Making me wonder if you even have a database at all.

b) you'll say "my model doesnt work that way", and include more swear words. Proving your "advanced" database can't provide this simple information

c) You'll provide the sql, and it'll be super complicated for a simple result set.

d) You wont reply at all... Because you in fact are good at 'talking'... and not 'doing'

I only replied, b/c i need a 25th post, to reply to people who have messaged me with intelligent conversation...

And your argument that i want to see your sql b/c i havent done anything myself...is of course well MOOT at this point...

Your rebuttal Monkey****er? Put up or shut up. Lets see the sql.

(Golf Clap For Mr. Maverick22 )

[PAULYPOKER]

Holy shit you guys still gone at it

[durito]

d) You wont reply at all... Because you in fact are good at 'talking'... and not 'doing'
[/INDENT]


And your argument that i want to see your sql b/c i havent done anything myself...is of course well MOOT at this point...

Your rebuttal Monkey****er? Put up or shut up. Lets see the sql.

I wouldn't be talking shit to an actual professional player when you are posting shit like this:

Good shit.. I was going to offer mine up...

My OverUnder's don't include odds Didn't think it would be TOO important.

Running simulations of my own. We'll see in time if, it will indeed matter.

You may know a shitload about databases, I really wouldn't know, but this is a board about advantage sports gambling of which you clearly don't know the first thing.

I'd take a big step back, forget about databases for a while, and learn the basics of sports gambling math and markets.

[Maverick22]

durito, are you his mom taking up for him now? I think Monkey can fend for himself He wanted to be mr big and bad guy... let him stand on his own two feet... you can suck him off another time.

And since when does being a 'professional sports gambling'(Not that it means much) make you immune from shit talk? You can kiss my ass...the both of you...

Take a step back from that.

[PAULYPOKER]

[durito]

durito, are you his mom taking up for him now? I think Monkey can fend for himself He wanted to be mr big and bad guy... let him stand on his own two feet... you can suck him off another time.

And since when does being a 'professional sports gambling'(Not that it means much) make you immune from shit talk? You can kiss my ass...the both of you...

Take a step back from that.

I hope Justin will move all this crap out of this otherwise fine thread.

But, the point remains. Any database isn't going to do anyone any good if you don't grasp basic gambling math.

[ljump12]

Thanks for shitting up my thread with your database dick measuring contest.

[MonkeyF0cker]

Good luck with your 2.2 GB of data... I still call bull shit...

I know where you got your information... And i can ASSURE you...
You dont have 2.2 GB worth of data for a single season.

I did the math in an offline conversation... And the ONLY way your database is 2GB is IF and ONLY IF you have over 20 seasons of data...

You seem like to pick fights, but you shouldnt pick fights with people more knowledgable than you... It only makes you look silly...

And to share with the group, b/c you have the ultimate database...

Please provide your sql for pulling the # of pitches for this year... as of yesterday and sorted by season...

I'll make a guess that one of the following will happen:

a) You wont do it...you will use swear words and tell me how stupid I am. Making me wonder if you even have a database at all.

b) you'll say "my model doesnt work that way", and include more swear words. Proving your "advanced" database can't provide this simple information

c) You'll provide the sql, and it'll be super complicated for a simple result set.

d) You wont reply at all... Because you in fact are good at 'talking'... and not 'doing'

I only replied, b/c i need a 25th post, to reply to people who have messaged me with intelligent conversation...

And your argument that i want to see your sql b/c i havent done anything myself...is of course well MOOT at this point...

Your rebuttal Monkey****er? Put up or shut up. Lets see the sql.

(Golf Clap For Mr. Maverick22 )

First off, I wouldn't use my model's database as the design is not conducive to broad based queries like that. I have a separate DB for that purpose and each season has a separate table of pitch by pitch data. For each year, you'd simply run a "SELECT COUNT(*) from dbo.[Year]_pbp_pitches" statement and add them together. Seriously, this discussion is growing extremely weary. If you are a warehouser and can't figure out a suitable design for your own simple MLB database, I cringe to think of the misery your clientele must endure.

[Wrecktangle]

CSV's simply aren't practical for most profitable modeling applications.

Wrong...again.

[MonkeyF0cker]

Wrong...again.

LOL. Please explain then how you'd programmatically parse a CSV of MLB box scores where Boston played a night game at Fenway and David Ortiz played DH without converting the CSV to a datatable anyway and without extremely cumbersome code. If you've built a SQL database it can be as simple as "SELECT * from dbo.Box_Scores WHERE home_team='BOS' AND game_start>'19:00' AND dh='Ortiz'". Afterall, if you're going to convert the CSV to a datatable every time, you might as well permanently store it as a DB anyway.

And please tell me where I was wrong previously.

[proprvillain]

What this thread could really use is something more or less semi-off topic and extremely unhelpful.

[MonkeyF0cker]

What this thread could really use is something more or less semi-off topic and extremely unhelpful.

It comes from the viewpoint that stopping short of automating the entire process (i.e. using CSV's/Excel) if you've taken the time to learn a language is extremely tedious and time consuming anyway. If you do it programmatically, you save yourself a great deal of time and energy in the long haul.

[Wrecktangle]

And please tell me where I was wrong previously.

Monkey, in a moment of frustration with your analytical bomb-throwing I gave into tossing back a careless comment. Everyone who has been around this forum knows that you think you are God's gift to the sports analytical world, but then you decline to work with anyone or share anything, but you absolutely insist we know how smart you are.

This is my last communication as I do not want to further muck up Ijump's excellent thread or play into your schoolyard bully games.

[romanowski]

Thanks for shitting up my thread with your database dick measuring contest.

what a bunch of idiots, seriously, just continue

[uva3021]

someone please just delete the drivel, and keep it sophisticated

[Justin7]

Wow, what crapification. I think I'll move this to the player's talk.

[PAULYPOKER]

We have a phrase here in Holland and it translates into something like: Before you wrestle with pigs, remember that they like to get dirty.

[poker_dummy101]

Wow Monkeys the dominant one on this side of town I'm impressed

thats why i only read in the think tank and post BS in players talk.

i am lucky to understand 1/10 of what goes on over there.