Raiders, you contradict yourself a little here. It seems you that you hate people who admit betting +EV lines. How does is it compare to your highly touted TFZ? You're not gonna be ahead in this game by not betting +EVs and BTW I doubt you are.
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And when have I ever taken a bad line? Like I say, I've never had a bet cancelled.. not even at a UK Bookie..
The closest I've probably ever come is taking a Tennis player at +320 at Bodog when his opponent had moved to -260 at Pinnacle on news of an injury.. The max bet was something like $500.
I do 95%+ of my betting/scalping at exchanges -- if you're about to tell me "bad lines" even exist at a P2P exchange like Betfair, I'll be amused
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Santo- I'm not here looking for respect from anyone. Fezzik, Voodoo, Dinque, Daringly, Drunk and others aren't playing bad lines. You call yourself a pro while they only thng you are is a cheat.Comment -
Magnovox- I respect guys that are +even bettors and that's what we try to do at TFZ. There's a big difference in seeing value in a line than playing a line at +4 when the whole world has it at +1 making it an obvious bad line.Comment -
Mag- I'm only going to brag here because you have assumed what type of player that I am. Look at my record at the RX as tracked by Therecordkeeper. I was 53-29 in the NFL in 2002. I was the #2 overall baseball capper in 2003. I was the #1 overall NCAA football capper in 2003. All records are there and documented so if you want more proof I'll go head to head with you for $1000 over 100 plays.Comment -
Fezzik has said the only reason he's near break even this year is playing "off" lines... I guarantee you if Fezzik saw +4 at a shop he had funded when the world was +1, he'd be the first to take it.Originally posted by raiders72001
I just wish I saw times when I could get +4 at a funded shop whilst the world was +1 ;-)Comment -
I don't think a three point difference is considered a bad line, even by Vegas standards.Comment -
Raiders, this is funny, any intelligent person knows, that 100 picks is no real indication. Even a 1000 may be to small. Both of us would be better off just flipping a coin.Comment -
+4 is a bad line when it's never gone above +1 in the NFL. I don't see how anyone can think that a three point difference crossing 3 is not a bad line.Comment -
Just come out and say that you aren't willing to back your statements instead of making excuses.Raiders, this is funny, any intelligent person knows, that 100 picks is no real indication. Even a 1000 may be to small. Both of us would be better off just flipping a coin.Comment -
If it's NFL then I agree.Originally posted by raiders72001Comment -
I am not making excuses, I am just not willing to back my statement.
Anyway, just not under these circumstances.
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Even if it's NCAA basketball is a bad line. 2 is huge there. It's a bad line in any sport.Comment -
Here's some advice for newbies. Never play a bad line. It almost always puts you in a lose, lose situation. The book can cancel a winner or let a loser stand.
For shot takers such as Santo they know where they can cheat and where they can't cheat. They also know the right people to help them scam.Comment -
This may be a bad time to ask but is to know something spelt as 'it is my belief' or 'it is my believe'? Just an earler post has been bugging me.
Anyway, taco ... raiders is posting about something and you are not attacking??Comment -
Raiders: I came into this thread with no intention to start a pi**ing contest with you, however your continual isnunations as to my betting strategy are both inaccurate, and also un-neccesary.
You have zero proof that I have ever taken a shot with a book, because well, I haven't. I use the advice of professionals to predict line moves, and I do well at that. I use line movement software to beat the moves at exchanges like Betfair, where people are placing bets without regard for what's happening offshore, and I do even better at that.. Yes I take bonuses when offered, but only at reputable books -- currently funded are WSEX, Olympic, Betfair, Mansion, Matchbook and Pinnacle.. the first two with bonuses, the others not..
I have asked for help from anyone in this industry on a total on one occasion, and that wasn't to do with a settling of a bet, but rather having an account at >1 SBT. company, which as you know, was perfectly allowed until their recent change of heart.
You're talking above about backing up your statements. Do it, or shut your mouth.
And to quote one of the LVA guys:
" Duh,Bet the +4 and see what happens."Comment -
"It is my belief"Originally posted by natrassComment -
Santo- You took a shot at me first. I rarely expose posters that are scammers unless they fire first. You are a shot taking thief and I know that for a fact. You couldn't prove it any better than by saying that you would play a bad line of +4 when it should be +1. When I see a bad line like this, and it's happened many times, I call the book first and tell them about the line instead of trying to cheat them.Comment -
Believe what you will Raiders. I'm obviously not going to convince you otherwise. My name is clear. I've never been kicked from a book, I've never had a bet cancelled. You made a brass statement without any knowledge of the facts (probably excepting I'm British, and so I must be a shot-taker to be bettng American Sports), and now you're stuck defending it.
I've already established that most +EV betters would take an off line if they saw it. I'd suggest if you ask Fezzik or similar they'd give you the same answer. If a line's reversed, I will notify the book; just ask Olympic how many Soccer lines I've told them are reversed in the last month.
I've not yet had the situation where I can get +4 about a +1 shot, but if I see one, I'll be sure to think of you when I bet it.
I apologise for taking a shot at you. TBH that's not what I thought I was doing, merely saying that I wouldn't use you or AK as a reccomendation for playing / not playing a book.Comment -
Raiders, I have backed you before and I would back you again as I think you are at the very least entertaining (which is not meant as a put down ... trust me, its hard to be entertaining) and the SBR forum is much the better for your your posts ... BUT .... why attack someone for trying to beat a book ? By definition, that is what 'we' exist' here for .. to beat the book ... so santos is no different from you, me or BBD ... just different takes.
As for honesty, well, as has been said infinetum, its not a village fete we are involved in. You can only win what someone else (or rather the book) loses ... there is no win/win situation for the industry.Comment -
Natrass- Very good points
Santo - Truce, let's get back to beating the man.Comment -
You're correct, but considered is not enough...Originally posted by lakerfan
I'm not in anyway suggesting that SBR should not report about these bookies' troubles...
But for the sake of decency that is all it should do or (as someone else suggested) it might seem is taking a cheap shot to a competitor.Comment -
If you pull TOW's banners because he starts touting a new book you are bullying him; if you leave the banners maybe you agree with him.... Bottom line if SBR sells a ad banner to run on our sites we dont go evaluating our advertisers on a daily basis. The visitor can and should check the SBR rating before joining any book much less a "rookie project".Comment -
As Bill pointed out, it is clear RIch coast ran out of money. They would simply continue to proccess withdrawals. The fact that there is talk of a rollover, means they didn't have the funds to cover the players liabilities, and now the new owners have to impose a rollover.
While on the one hand it was nice that RCS at least took a little time to arrange a bailout, I think the players would have liked, and deserved a voice in who bails them out. For instance there may well be some who would have been more comfotable with Jay at betonstars. I'm sure many would have like the opportunity to see if something could be arrnaged with a more established book. But now that bbothebet has stepped in, players will likely not be able to get any other bailout options. And Tony from bookthebet might be an honest guy. But I doubt he is realy prepared for teh type of sharp players that RCS had.
Once agian, it just demonstartes, that it doens't matter how much money the owners have, it doens't matter how much money the book has in its neteller account. It's always going to be a question of does it make more business sense to pay the players and keep the book running, or are the owners better off shutting down, and pay the players, or just shut down and stiff the players. For new books the choice is usally the latter.
Established books have taken the time to brand their name. The name name itself has value. Their cusotmer list has value. So when an established book runs into trouble, they at least have a shot of finding a new owner or investor, so it's worth it to keep the operation running. New books don't have any of that.Comment -
RCS took the time to find a sucker. bookthebet is gona take it uptheanus. Either that.... or will not pay. maybe rich has the player money and wanted to keep some so instead of giving it to players he made the ac****s part of the deal. if that isnt the case then bookthebet MUST think these players are going to happily stay and he will have a readymade sportsbook.While on the one hand it was nice that RCS at least took a little time to arrange a bailout, I think the players would have liked, and deserved a voice in who bails them out. For instance there may well be some who would have been more comfotable with Jay at betonstars. I'm sure many would have like the opportunity to see if something could be arrnaged with a more established book. But now that bbothebet has stepped in, players will likely not be able to get any other bailout options. And Tony from bookthebet might be an honest guy. But I doubt he is realy prepared for teh type of sharp players that RCS had.Comment -
Maybe you should have put a disclaimer on TOW's banner..but that was not my point anyway.Originally posted by SBR_John
In the last few days you suggested in multiple occasions that Roberto's model is dangerous for players.
While you're completely right about that, it seems obvious to me that running down your competitor, now that the ad contract expired, plays a much bigger role in your posts than the real issues with the books.
And then I ask myself: is this an isolated case or is SBR (as a website) an hypocrite in other aspects of the business.
I know that Bill does an unbelievable job in helping players and the mods here are all nice and helpful with fellow forumites...
But then I don't know what goes into a rating, and while I don't see any D-book rated A, there probably are some B books rated A+ and recommended...
Last edited by pier0; 12-28-05, 01:08 PM.Comment -
You are free to specualte and form your own opinion pier. If you want to convince yourself we were evil, wrong, hypocrits for leaving up tows banner after he came out with his silly rookie project then - thou arest more pure than us mere SBR mortals, master pure err pier.
We dont pull paid advertisers because we dissagree with their business model.Comment -
I honestly don't believe SBR is evil. Over all you do a very good job.
However, I personally would like to see less forum drama/politics when a book is going (or may go) down.
While drama is fun and entertaining most of the times, this is a case where it would be much better if the people, who have a chance to do something, work together to help the players.
Then after the situation is resolved, you can talk business models and whose fault was the failure or quasi-failure of the book.Comment -
i made large bets at rich coast this morning prior to reading all this.the line they had for air force was way off-185 ml rather than -235.hopefully all will be ok-thanks for the info,it hurts to lose touch with daily events in the sportsbook worldComment
