If you are a poke Degen..YT has a great video on Mike Mustow

[kyhawk]

Matusow (2024) | Full Movie | Documentary | Professional Poker

I have never played one hand, but these guys have great stories.

I remember when the WSOP used to be at the Stardust and over flow to the sportbook. Fuk I am old

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgJqnNP2US4

[kyhawk]

I remember the legend and that big deg Stu Ungar used to hang around the Nugget downtown.

[Madison]

Get his book. It's a great read for those of our ilk.

[ChuckyTheGoat]

I remember the legend and that big deg Stu Ungar used to hang around the Nugget downtown.

ky, did you ever see Stu down there?

1) The Matusow video is pretty good. He got injured in a car-accident. Believe that he's mostly recovered. I'd say that he's pretty well-liked...and really a better player than people think.

2) Ungar is remembered as a great poker champ. Truth is that he had to suck out big-time on at least 2 of his 3 titles. Got lucky, just like every champ from the L50 years.

[Ian]

I watched the doc. a couple of weeks ago. The thing that stuck out the most for me is the amount of RX meds he's on. 21 pills a day... that can't be healthy.

When I was a kid I remember watching the '98 WSOP ME final table when it aired on ESPN. I was rooting hard against Scotty Nguyen because of how obnoxious his rail was. I rewatched it on youtube decades later and the obnoxious railbird: Mike the Mouth of course.

[ChuckyTheGoat]

I watched the doc. a couple of weeks ago. The thing that stuck out the most for me is the amount of RX meds he's on. 21 pills a day... that can't be healthy.

When I was a kid I remember watching the '98 WSOP ME final table when it aired on ESPN. I was rooting hard against Scotty Nguyen because of how obnoxious his rail was. I rewatched it on youtube decades later and the obnoxious railbird: Mike the Mouth of course.

Hey, Ian! A few things:
1) I believe Matusow's meds tie to the back injury he picked up in the car-accident. I DON'T think it's tied to his prior recreational drug use. I saw him @ the WSOP a few years ago, and he was in an electric wheel-chair. Think he's over that, believe he's now walking around.

2) The 1998 WSOP is before the # of players blew up. I have to look up the #. Sco

[ChuckyTheGoat]

Scotty Nguyen did like to drink while playing. He was funny, but his behavior sometimes got out of control. I think his image played into that classic final hand:
*Nguyen flopped trips and then boated-up on the paired board.
*McBride was known to be an inexperienced amateur player. Scotty goes all in and induces action with the "You call, it's all over" statement.
*The amazing part is that McBride didn't even have a hand. He was just playing the board. Maybe he thought Scotty was in a drunken stupor.

[ChuckyTheGoat]

3) Matusow was a complete a-hole the year that Greg Raymer won. Matusow went down on a few key hands, so Greg maybe got his just reward. Matusow is friends with Phil Hellmuth. I know for a fact that most of Hellmuth's theatrics are for dramatic effect. Some of the same can be said for Matusow. It's a show, it's a production.

[ChuckyTheGoat]

Here's the hand. I guess it's not insane:
*Boat on the board. CHANCE that McBride has an over-pair.

Both players playing the board there quite often. Even a small pair is counterfeited.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/tr98qbVilbQ

[Madison]

I had a rare opportunity to play on the same table with Scotty.

Never saw Stu , but his book, "one of a kind" is a must read.

Matasow book name escapes me (In my bookshelf) is also a must read.

70's , 80's, early 90's was my day. Are their characters out there today who can equal??

[Madison]

3) Matusow was a complete a-hole the year that Greg Raymer won. Matusow went down on a few key hands, so Greg maybe got his just reward. Matusow is friends with Phil Hellmuth. I know for a fact that most of Hellmuth's theatrics are for dramatic effect. Some of the same can be said for Matusow. It's a show, it's a production.

Read the Matasow book Chuck. Off the charts, from a sensical perspective. We've got our group of wanna be's/may'bes, in here but far as I know these 2 actually did it.

If interested remind me later and I'll tell you about the opps I passed up in the early 80's.

[ChuckyTheGoat]

Read the Matasow book Chuck. Off the charts, from a sensical perspective. We've got our group of wanna be's/may'bes, in here but far as I know these 2 actually did it.

If interested remind me later and I'll tell you about the opps I passed up in the early 80's.

I read the Stu Ungar book. Very good, the tone is perfect. Have met the author, Nolan Dolla.

I view Matusow as entertaining. But I don't view him as that skilled. So, not that interested.

Ungar was an interesting character, but a couple things:
1) I'm not too forgiving of the drug-user. Did it to himself, so that's his life.
2) Was well-regarded on Gin Rummy. Viewed as the best ever.
3) As for Poker...lines up to my standard view. He had to get VERY lucky on a few hands to win titles versus smallish fields. I won't bow down to him on poker skill.

[ChuckyTheGoat]

I had a rare opportunity to play on the same table with Scotty.

Never saw Stu , but his book, "one of a kind" is a must read.

Matasow book name escapes me (In my bookshelf) is also a must read.

70's , 80's, early 90's was my day. Are their characters out there today who can equal??

Hi, Mad. My basic answer would be NO.

I don't think the current crop of players is that entertaining. In fairness, they're more serious and more well-studied.

I haven't watched THAT much video in recent years. I do think that Phil Laak was very funny on the poker live-streams. I'd pay to see Laak play.

[kyhawk]

That guy with the big Texas hat was easy to spot. I used to see him all the time. Amarillo slim.

[Madison]

I read the Stu Ungar book. Very good, the tone is perfect. Have met the author, Nolan Dolla.

I view Matusow as entertaining. But I don't view him as that skilled. So, not that interested.

Ungar was an interesting character, but a couple things:
1) I'm not too forgiving of the drug-user. Did it to himself, so that's his life.
2) Was well-regarded on Gin Rummy. Viewed as the best ever.
3) As for Poker...lines up to my standard view. He had to get VERY lucky on a few hands to win titles versus smallish fields. I won't bow down to him on poker skill.

Smallest fields is the key. I had the opp to be out there at the time, but the timing was not right.

[Ian]

Here's the hand. I guess it's not insane:
*Boat on the board. CHANCE that McBride has an over-pair.

Both players playing the board there quite often. Even a small pair is counterfeited.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/tr98qbVilbQ

The most iconic final hand in WSOP ME history right there. Thanks for posting.

[ChuckyTheGoat]

The most iconic final hand in WSOP ME history right there. Thanks for posting.

You bet! Daniel Negreanu referenced this hand.

It's beautifully played by Scotty:
1) He holds Jx. So, it COULD be JT.
2) Paired board is tough to connect to. Turn counterfeits all small pairs.
3) McBride's turn bet is reasonable. He COULD hold overpairs.
4) 8 on River, boat is on the board. McBride can't ever fold 8s Full of TT+.
5) "You call, it's all over." I do think Scotty's image plays perfect here. Is he drunk? That hand chops > 80% of the time.

[Ian]

You bet! Daniel Negreanu referenced this hand.

It's beautifully played by Scotty:
1) He holds Jx. So, it COULD be JT.
2) Paired board is tough to connect to. Turn counterfeits all small pairs.
3) McBride's turn bet is reasonable. He COULD hold overpairs.
4) 8 on River, boat is on the board. McBride can't ever fold 8s Full of TT+.
5) "You call, it's all over." I do think Scotty's image plays perfect here. Is he drunk? That hand chops > 80% of the time.

It's been a while since I watched the whole broadcast, but from what I remember McBride luckboxed his way to h/u. IIRC earlier in the tournament he pulled a huge suckout on Scotty, shoved, and then left the tournament to take a dump while Scotty thought about is decision. I think Scotty knew that as soon as he caught something McBride would pay him off... that's how it worked out anyway.

[ChuckyTheGoat]

It's been a while since I watched the whole broadcast, but from what I remember McBride luckboxed his way to h/u. IIRC earlier in the tournament he pulled a huge suckout on Scotty, shoved, and then left the tournament to take a dump while Scotty thought about is decision. I think Scotty knew that as soon as he caught something McBride would pay him off... that's how it worked out anyway.

LOL. I went back and found the 1998 highlight tape:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MnIYXpC0vY

(31:00) McBride does indeed go All-In and then heads out to take a dump. He actually asks the Tourn Director if that's OK. As if he's asking permission from his grade-school teacher.

(31:30) SCOTTY: "Where did he go?"

[ChuckyTheGoat]

(11:40) In that same clip, there's a great clip with Matt Damon and Edward Norton. This is right b4 the movie ROUNDERS was coming. Matt and Ed played the tournament, almost as a promotional. They come across as great guys in the video.

[ChuckyTheGoat]

(35:00) Scotty sometimes gets bagged on. Liquor and Speech-play.

Look at the play he makes in this hand. He reps the Ace. He bets flop and again on Turn.
...Jack on Turn. McBride's call looks a lot like a Draw call. Unless he specifically has QT.
...River is an 8. Honestly not as bricky as Scotty may have liked.
...He'd want a low-brick to miss the middling cards. But he goes for it, he had 65.
...Was dead on the Turn but kept barreling. Triple-barrel bluff gets thru.

[ChuckyTheGoat]

Pretty interesting video:
1) Back then, pre-flop Raises were not standard. More limping, and PF Raise w/ big hands.
2) I played A LITTLE back then. But I wasn't good at all.
3) Respect to McBride. As a new player, he played well. And he congratulated Scotty for winning at the end.