HOF QB's with least support.

[Madison]

Slam dunk!

Tom Brady had Moss for 2 years in his decline/past and otherwise Edelman. Name me another HOF QB who played with weaker over 16-18 years?

May have had the best in career in TB??

[Madison]

Slam dunk!

Tom Brady had Moss for 2 years in his decline/past and otherwise Edelman. Name me another HOF QB who played with weaker over 16-18 years?

May have had the best in career in TB??

OK Gronk but , otherwise??

[ChuckyTheGoat]

Mad, think I have a name for you. Fran Tarkenton!

He played with MINN, Giants and then 2nd-tour of duty with MINN. Look at his list of WRs. Hard to find a big-name in the bunch.

[Madison]

Mad, think I have a name for you. Fran Tarkenton!

He played with MINN, Giants and then 2nd-tour of duty with MINN. Look at his list of WRs. Hard to find a big-name in the bunch.

Interesting one. Boy did that name/era bring back memories. I was 10-20 during that time.

Homer Jones, Ahmad Rashad, Joe Morrison. Wow!

That was a totally different game in those days!! I guess we do need to consider era's as in his days you could tackle a receiver without penalty. Today, as I know you are aware, you can't breathe on a receiver without a flag.

Top Ten here ... Minnesota Vikings: Top 10 Receiving Targets of Fran Tarkenton Era

[ChuckyTheGoat]

Interesting one. Boy did that name/era bring back memories. I was 10-20 during that time.

Homer Jones, Ahmad Rashad, Joe Morrison. Wow!

That was a totally different game in those days!! I guess we do need to consider era's as in his days you could tackle a receiver without penalty. Today, as I know you are aware, you can't breathe on a receiver without a flag.

Top Ten here ... Minnesota Vikings: Top 10 Receiving Targets of Fran Tarkenton Era

Hi, Mad. Yes, some good names. White was good, some names in there.

Passing much tougher back then. I'm a big Ken Anderson advocate. His name got lost in the ruff.

[stevenash]

Dan Marino.
The Dolphins never had a 1000-yard rusher while Marino was QB.

(That's not entirely true. In Marino's final season, the Dolphins had a 1000-yard rusher, but Marino had one foot out the door then.)

[ChuckyTheGoat]

Dan Marino.
The Dolphins never had a 1000-yard rusher while Marino was QB.

(That's not entirely true. In Marino's final season, the Dolphins had a 1000-yard rusher, but Marino had one foot out the door then.)

Nash, I have my own opinion on this. There was the point about the RB. Well, they threw quite often w/ Marino as QB.

His talent was exceptional. Played behind the top center in the game. His sack rate was incredibly low based on blocking and quick release.

The Marks brothers? Duper and Clayton were good. Short and quick, hard to cover.

I so much wish they had beaten the Patriots in 1985. I'm convinced they had the antidote for the Bears' physical defense. Quick receivers who could create matchup problems vs CHI.

I've played that game out in my head. Dolphins win again. Just like they did on MNF.

[Madison]

Brady had Curtis Martin for a couple years then who else worth mentioning?

[str]

Brady had Curtis Martin for a couple years then who else worth mentioning?

Bill Belichicks defense that he threw out week to week and especially playoffs and at Super Bowl opponents.

He confused the opponents with schemes they were not prepared for, or, adjusted on the fly during the game. The Atlanta game comes to mind
Not taking anything away from Brady, but without Belichick, I don't see all the wins that Brady had happening. His ability to take away strengths and exploit weaknesses were incredible year in and year out IMO.
I think they were the "perfect storm" in the NFL Chucky.

[ChuckyTheGoat]

Bill Belichicks defense that he threw out week to week and especially playoffs and at Super Bowl opponents.

He confused the opponents with schemes they were not prepared for, or, adjusted on the fly during the game. The Atlanta game comes to mind
Not taking anything away from Brady, but without Belichick, I don't see all the wins that Brady had happening. His ability to take away strengths and exploit weaknesses were incredible year in and year out IMO.
I think they were the "perfect storm" in the NFL Chucky.

Good stuff, str. Go back to my writeup on the 1990 Super Bowl. Giants vs Bills.

I've thought about how the Giants won. Bills were clearly more talented. My reasons are:
1) Belichick punishing Andre Reed, b/c he knew the Bills would throw. Conceded rush yards to Thomas.
2) Parcells switching to rush offense. After he saw that Bruce Smith was too quick for Jumbo Elliott.
3) Giants coming up huge on several plays. Little bit of luck. Wide-right, Giants win.

[Madison]

Point is, Brady may have had a great coach, and may have been surrounded by a strong D overall, he still never had a significant long
term depth of receivers over his years in NE and 6 SB.

[hawkwind]

HE Had an 11 Player Team on Both sides of the Ball (Brady Included) it's a TEAM Sport & He Had a TEAM. That's what Wins !!!

[ttwarrior1]

brady has multiple cheating scandals and had the best o line

[raiders72001]

Dan Marino.
The Dolphins never had a 1000-yard rusher while Marino was QB.

(That's not entirely true. In Marino's final season, the Dolphins had a 1000-yard rusher, but Marino had one foot out the door then.)

I'd put him #1. Elway and Moon up there too.

[stevenash]

Good stuff, str. Go back to my writeup on the 1990 Super Bowl. Giants vs Bills.

I've thought about how the Giants won. Bills were clearly more talented. My reasons are:
1) Belichick punishing Andre Reed, b/c he knew the Bills would throw. Conceded rush yards to Thomas.
2) Parcells switching to rush offense. After he saw that Bruce Smith was too quick for Jumbo Elliott.
3) Giants coming up huge on several plays. Little bit of luck. Wide-right, Giants win.

Parcells doubled down with GM duties that year, so he hired Belichick to handle the defense and lighten his load.

The major reason Bill and Bill ran the ball often was to limit the time of possession for Kelly, keep away football.

[Madison]

I'd put him #1. Elway and Moon up there too.

2 Interesting ones to look further in to. Thx!

[ChuckyTheGoat]

Parcells doubled down with GM duties that year, so he hired Belichick to handle the defense and lighten his load.

The major reason Bill and Bill ran the ball often was to limit the time of possession for Kelly, keep away football.

Yes, that is true. It was an old-school game where the Giants' best chance was to minimize the # of possessions.

In the history of the Super Bowls, 1990 is one of the great upsets. Bills were easily the more talented roster if you sized it up.

I referenced the one play in my notes. Hostetler JUST BARELY held onto the ball in the endzone. Otherwise, Bruce Smith scores a Sack/Strip/TD and is on the highlight reel forever. Hostetler holds on and takes the safety. Parcells saw that he couldn't ask Elliott to pass-block vs Smith (after seeing that play).

[ChuckyTheGoat]

Not sure I agree with some of the comments in here:

*If we're talking WRs, these guys are pros. Most were good to very-good.

*A few very fine points:
...BUFF may have gotten to a Super Bowl earlier. Ronnie Harmon drops the ball in CLE.
...DEN was potent b/c of Elway's cannon-arm. Never really had a shortage of receivers. DEN got better when a) Shannon Sharpe arrived, b) Off Line improved and c) Terrell Davis became a thoroughbred RB who could consistently convert on short-yardage.
...HOU had talented personnel that could match almost any team. Go back and count how many Pro Bowlers they had (including two future HOF linemen in Munchak and Matthews). I think Moon's receivers were plenty good w/ Slaughter and Givins ("from Louisville). Oilers took the gut-punch loss in Buffalo against Frank "Third" Reich. They also took a bad home loss versus Joe Montana's Chiefs.

History is fickle. You only get to play these games once. HOU definitely could have broken thru, just needed to be a little luckier.