Suspicious Decision Making By John Harbaugh Last Night SNF

Four33 · 10-10-22, 08:46 AM

Maybe but he messed up last week go super agro on play calls think he just went super conservative this week.

Typical him behavior. Didn’t want to hear it from media if he blew it again being aggressive.

pologq · 10-10-22, 09:17 AM

he seemed to be coaching scared

Brock Landers · 10-10-22, 09:22 AM

Suspicious? LOL
He's trying to win a game, and the best kicker in NFL history on his side, what would you do?

stake1 · 10-10-22, 09:27 AM

Originally posted by TheMoneyShot

It seemed to me John Harbaugh intentionally kept the spread within reach... even for Cincinnati. I'll explain....

1st sequence... Baltimore stops Cincinnati on 4th and goal. 3rd quarter 2:45 to go. Baltimore now has possession at their own 2. They systematically march down the field about 95 yards. Cincinnati ZERO ANSWERS in stopping them. Same drive... we're now in the 4th quarter. It's now 4th and 1 at Cincy 3. Very short 1 by the way. Harbaugh lines up to go for it... just to draw them offsides. Cincy doesn't bite. Instead of calling a timeout... they decide to get a delay of game penalty... and it pushes them back 5 yards.

Now, Why not go for it? You have momentum. Very long drive. Cincy no answers in stopping your run game. Very short 1 yard... like a half a yard. You're already up 3? GO FOR IT!! Harbaugh decides to kick a FG? The entire sequence... very odd.

2nd sequence... After Cincy's go ahead TD.... Both Cincy and Baltimore have 3 timeouts remaining... we're under 2 minutes to go... Baltimore just systematically marches down the field... Baltimore burns 1 TO at the 1:10 mark at their own 45 yrd line. Next play... BOOM 19 yard gain... at Cincy 36 yard line 0:56 seconds to go. Cincy burns first TO... in an effort to save time to get the ball back since Baltimore is in FG range. Baltimore gets the 1st down... and Cincy has 0 TO's left. There's literally 42 seconds to go roughly... at Cincy 25 yard line. Why didn't John Harbaugh run some plays to get the kicker in closer range??? What about trying to score a TD? A 41 yard FG is still a long distance... you'd rather be closer. You could have a bad hold... bad snap. There's plenty of time left... 41 seconds... and you have 2 TO's left.

Why did he play ultra conservative in that situation??? The last 2 drives... you carved up Cincy like swiss cheese. Weather was fine.... I just don't understand why everything simply halted after the first down?

Both Jim and John Harbaugh ALWAYS know the spreads. They always know what side Vegas wants. You can clearly tell in the play calling... and decision making.

Just nominated your Ne -3 thread.

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Auto Donk · 10-10-22, 09:29 AM

reminds me of someone.......

oh yeah.....

stake1 · 10-10-22, 09:35 AM

Agree with Money. play calls on both sides were odd. this was a game where the points (short points) mattered and that is not very often the case when the bengals and ravens get together

stake1 · 10-10-22, 09:41 AM

Money: tried to send you a message. thanks for the Sbr betpoints! if you accidentally gave me that amount? let know and I will send them back
Great call on New England -3

not sure how aaron glenn still has his job and man did campbell get taken to head coaching school by belichick. campbell's first game out of the bye is @Dallas, then he has Miami and Packers at home. will be dogs in all three and instead of glenn being the fallguy? could be campbell if they go 0-3 out of the bye week

TheMoneyShot · 10-10-22, 10:13 AM

Originally posted by stake1

Money: tried to send you a message. thanks for the Sbr betpoints! if you accidentally gave me that amount? let know and I will send them back

It's all good! You gave me a lot of points a few months back.... and unfortunately I lost them. I got my sh## together.... won a lot of points... and I wanted to repay you. Thank you!

stake1 · 10-10-22, 10:28 AM

Originally posted by TheMoneyShot

It's all good! You gave me a lot of points a few months back.... and unfortunately I lost them. I got my sh## together.... won a lot of points... and I wanted to repay you. Thank you!

you are 100% class! thank you very much

DrunkHorseplayer · 10-10-22, 10:37 AM

Translation: you had Bal -3 and you lost.

Do you seriously believe that Harbaugh would focus more on the spread than winning the game, knowing full well that making sure the score stayed within three points could cost them the game? If you do, you shouldn't be gambling.

ChuckyTheGoat · 10-10-22, 10:44 AM

Shot...you're saying the Harbaugh Clan DOESN'T make enough $$ on these massive coaching contracts?

1) Jimmy does everything but play the cheerleaders to come in under the # vs Hawaii?
2) John GIVES the TD away to Bengals. Knowing full well that Justin Tucker is the most automatic bet in history of time. WIN the game S/U...AND...cash the +3 ticket.

jackpot269 · 10-10-22, 10:50 AM

Originally posted by TheMoneyShot

It seemed to me John Harbaugh intentionally kept the spread within reach... even for Cincinnati. I'll explain....

1st sequence... Baltimore stops Cincinnati on 4th and goal. 3rd quarter 2:45 to go. Baltimore now has possession at their own 2. They systematically march down the field about 95 yards. Cincinnati ZERO ANSWERS in stopping them. Same drive... we're now in the 4th quarter. It's now 4th and 1 at Cincy 3. Very short 1 by the way. Harbaugh lines up to go for it... just to draw them offsides. Cincy doesn't bite. Instead of calling a timeout... they decide to get a delay of game penalty... and it pushes them back 5 yards.

Now, Why not go for it? You have momentum. Very long drive. Cincy no answers in stopping your run game. Very short 1 yard... like a half a yard. You're already up 3? GO FOR IT!! Harbaugh decides to kick a FG? The entire sequence... very odd.

2nd sequence... After Cincy's go ahead TD.... Both Cincy and Baltimore have 3 timeouts remaining... we're under 2 minutes to go... Baltimore just systematically marches down the field... Baltimore burns 1 TO at the 1:10 mark at their own 45 yrd line. Next play... BOOM 19 yard gain... at Cincy 36 yard line 0:56 seconds to go. Cincy burns first TO... in an effort to save time to get the ball back since Baltimore is in FG range. Baltimore gets the 1st down... and Cincy has 0 TO's left. There's literally 42 seconds to go roughly... at Cincy 25 yard line. Why didn't John Harbaugh run some plays to get the kicker in closer range??? What about trying to score a TD? A 41 yard FG is still a long distance... you'd rather be closer. You could have a bad hold... bad snap. There's plenty of time left... 41 seconds... and you have 2 TO's left.

Why did he play ultra conservative in that situation??? The last 2 drives... you carved up Cincy like swiss cheese. Weather was fine.... I just don't understand why everything simply halted after the first down?

Both Jim and John Harbaugh ALWAYS know the spreads. They always know what side Vegas wants. You can clearly tell in the play calling... and decision making.

I AGREE He traditional is not a conserved coach, If he was I would think differently

Nate rasta · 10-10-22, 10:56 AM

He was on tilt because he blew the game last week going for it on 4th

mw00 · 10-10-22, 11:14 AM

him and his brother always point shaving.

d2bets · 10-10-22, 11:23 AM

Originally posted by Brock Landers

Suspicious? LOL
He's trying to win a game, and the best kicker in NFL history on his side, what would you do?

Exactly. He played the last sequence perfect. Easy FG as the clock expires.

On the prior one, tough call, but if they go for it and miss then -3 backers whine why didn't they kick". If I'm sitting on -3 I want that FG to go up 6, because if they go up 9 you are even more suspceitble to a backdoor.

Definitely nothing suspicious with the decisions, and not even bad decisions.

jtoler · 10-10-22, 01:50 PM

I disagree with him a lot especially last year losing so many games going for 2. Overly aggressive much of the time but not so much sometimes I guess. I dont mind either of those 2 sequences you posted. 4th and 1 on the 3 after marching down the field Id try to draw them off sides too Im not going 95 yds and it resulting in zero points. the 2nd one Id have done the same thing I wouldnt risk something bad happening by running plays no need to really get closer they have arguably the best kicker in nfl history.

asiagambler · 10-10-22, 03:34 PM

A 42 yard field goal is automatic for Justin Tucker. It's basically a chipshot for him

At that point, getting a couple extra yards wasn't going to make much difference

1st sequence I do agree with you. 4th and inches should have gone for it but I think Harbaugh was a bit gunshy after last week

d2bets · 10-10-22, 03:45 PM

Originally posted by asiagambler

A 42 yard field goal is automatic for Justin Tucker. It's basically a chipshot for him

At that point, getting a couple extra yards wasn't going to make much difference

1st sequence I do agree with you. 4th and inches should have gone for it but I think Harbaugh was a bit gunshy after last week

The way it played out showed exactly why they kicked. They wanted at worst to be in a situation where they only need a FG to win, with the best kicker in the game. If you don't get it, you're only up 3 and then if Cincy gets a TD you need a TD back. Here, you force them to need a TD, and even if they get it you only need a FG back. Close call, but I don't disagree with that thinking.

asiagambler · 10-10-22, 04:44 PM

Originally posted by d2bets

The way it played out showed exactly why they kicked. They wanted at worst to be in a situation where they only need a FG to win, with the best kicker in the game. If you don't get it, you're only up 3 and then if Cincy gets a TD you need a TD back. Here, you force them to need a TD, and even if they get it you only need a FG back. Close call, but I don't disagree with that thinking.

It was 4th and inches so it's like 90% chance they convert maybe even higher

KRIT · 10-10-22, 04:46 PM

People still think games are rigged lol? He kicked a fg to take the lead.

d2bets · 10-10-22, 06:35 PM

Originally posted by asiagambler

It was 4th and inches so it's like 90% chance they convert maybe even higher

Dude, wtf. More like ~ 60%, and it's actually less near the goal line. Easier in the middle of the field because the defense has more ground to cover. You go for it if you are trying to maximize points, but when it's late the score comes into play.

TheMoneyShot · 10-10-22, 06:45 PM

Originally posted by DrunkHorseplayer

Translation: you had Bal -3 and you lost.

Do you seriously believe that Harbaugh would focus more on the spread than winning the game, knowing full well that making sure the score stayed within three points could cost them the game? If you do, you shouldn't be gambling.

I had Cincinnati +3... I always take points no matter what. If it's +1.5 I always take the points. I never take Underdog ML's much at all. I think vegas wins astronomically on games tight like Cincy and Baltimore last night. If you like the Favorite.. you're more than likely going to take Balt -3. If you like the dog... you will more than likely take them SU.

Baltimore's last 2 drives... 93 yards and 50 yards... during the 2nd drive... you moved the ball 50 yards in literally 1 minute and 12 seconds... but you're going to shut everything down once you get the 1st down and have around 43 seconds left on the clock??? Best kicker or not... I'm getting closer... at least 10 more yards... I have 2 timeouts... and 43 seconds to work with. I've seen Harbaugh score a TD during similar situations.... even closing a game.... and trailing by 1 or 2 points.

It's questionable decisions making... if he's told to cover the line... he'll do it. If he's told not to cover... he won't cover.

I never seen a head coach in the NFL shut everything down.... knowing he has 2 TO's left... 43 seconds to work with... and the other team as zero timeouts. Think about it for a second... 41 42 yard FG's are not gimmies. That's like saying... I have a 4 foot putt and it's unmissable. Is it really?

TheMoneyShot · 10-10-22, 06:50 PM

Originally posted by mw00

him and his brother always point shaving.

Thank you. Just like his brother Jim VS Indiana last Saturday... Line was like Michigan -22 or -22.5 When Jim has a 2 TD lead in a game with under 5 minutes to go... he always plays clock management and never scores. He looks at the scoreboard... and says sh## we're only winning by 2 TD's 14 points... I can punch this ball in and still be under the line... ok let's do it!!! He goes full throttle... and punches the ball in... Michigan wins by 21. Jim knows the line.

TheMoneyShot · 10-10-22, 06:56 PM

Originally posted by ChuckyTheGoat

Shot...you're saying the Harbaugh Clan DOESN'T make enough $$ on these massive coaching contracts?

1) Jimmy does everything but play the cheerleaders to come in under the # vs Hawaii?
2) John GIVES the TD away to Bengals. Knowing full well that Justin Tucker is the most automatic bet in history of time. WIN the game S/U...AND...cash the +3 ticket.

Chucky... all I'm saying is.... when Baltimore was 4th and inches... up by 3 at Cincy's 3 yrd line... and they elected to KICK... it's very suspicious. People say analytics... or common sense??? Well... BOTH common sense and analytics say... go for it!! Right when he decided not to go for it... I was like... something is really up with this game??? Then on Cincy's next drive... a couple odd defensive penalties extend the drive... and naturally they score a TD. You couldn't ask for a better setup....

I watch the entire sequence on my DVR... I review NFL and college games much more than I ever have. I study play calling in certain situations... I'm telling you... what you saw last night was purely scripted.

I don't know what any coach receives for covering a line... or not covering a line... possibly nothing at all. Maybe they just do it out of respect for the "system"? I'm not saying EVERY coach does it... but Jim and John do.

franklee168 · 10-10-22, 07:06 PM

I’m a firm believer when it comes to gambling, you hope that you’re on the right side of these pre determined outcomes. Like I always say, at least wrestling finally admitted they were for entertainment only.

d2bets · 10-10-22, 07:08 PM

Originally posted by TheMoneyShot

Chucky... all I'm saying is.... when Baltimore was 4th and inches... up by 3 at Cincy's 3 yrd line... and they elected to KICK... it's very suspicious. People say analytics... or common sense??? Well... BOTH common sense and analytics say... go for it!! Right when he decided not to go for it... I was like... something is really up with this game??? Then on Cincy's next drive... a couple odd defensive penalties extend the drive... and naturally they score a TD. You couldn't ask for a better setup....

I watch the entire sequence on my DVR... I review NFL and college games much more than I ever have. I study play calling in certain situations... I'm telling you... what you saw last night was purely scripted.

I don't know what any coach receives for covering a line... or not covering a line... possibly nothing at all. Maybe they just do it out of respect for the "system"? I'm not saying EVERY coach does it... but Jim and John do.

When they kicked to go up 6, there was about 9:30 on the clock. Give that, they know that Cincy is not going to be able to score a a TD at the very end. They know that, at worst, if Cincy scores a TD they will get the ball back with 2-5 minutes left. Perfect for a drive only needing a FG with a great kicker. Plus, going up 6, if they stop Cincy and get in field goal range, they can ice the game with just a FG.

If you go for it and don't get it and then allow a TD, then you need a TD to win. Much much harder. And if you get a TD with 9:30 to go 10, it's not like the game is over. Then Cincy knows they have to operate to get the ball back, and they have enough time. If you are sitting with a -3 ticket, I'd argue that you wanted them to kick that FG. Otherwise, if they try and fail, you are likely pushing at the very best.

As for the last drive, they did it exactly correctly. No need for a TF. I'd rather let Tucker try from 42 (94%?) than score TD with 45 seconds left and give Cincy a chance, possibly to win (certainly better than 6%).

asiagambler · 10-10-22, 07:19 PM

Originally posted by d2bets

Dude, wtf. More like ~ 60%, and it's actually less near the goal line. Easier in the middle of the field because the defense has more ground to cover. You go for it if you are trying to maximize points, but when it's late the score comes into play.

60%

asiagambler · 10-10-22, 07:24 PM

Originally posted by TheMoneyShot

Chucky... all I'm saying is.... when Baltimore was 4th and inches... up by 3 at Cincy's 3 yrd line... and they elected to KICK... it's very suspicious. People say analytics... or common sense??? Well... BOTH common sense and analytics say... go for it!! Right when he decided not to go for it... I was like... something is really up with this game??? Then on Cincy's next drive... a couple odd defensive penalties extend the drive... and naturally they score a TD. You couldn't ask for a better setup....

I watch the entire sequence on my DVR... I review NFL and college games much more than I ever have. I study play calling in certain situations... I'm telling you... what you saw last night was purely scripted.

I don't know what any coach receives for covering a line... or not covering a line... possibly nothing at all. Maybe they just do it out of respect for the "system"? I'm not saying EVERY coach does it... but Jim and John do.

You're reading way too much into it. Harbaugh probably just had last week's (and last seasons) game(s) on his mind. 4th and inches should be automatic for him but I suspect he didn't want ANOTHER one of those to go against him after last week and the 10 or so times he went for it and failed with the game on the line last season

bhoor · 10-10-22, 08:30 PM

Originally posted by TheMoneyShot

It seemed to me John Harbaugh intentionally kept the spread within reach... even for Cincinnati. I'll explain....

1st sequence... Baltimore stops Cincinnati on 4th and goal. 3rd quarter 2:45 to go. Baltimore now has possession at their own 2. They systematically march down the field about 95 yards. Cincinnati ZERO ANSWERS in stopping them. Same drive... we're now in the 4th quarter. It's now 4th and 1 at Cincy 3. Very short 1 by the way. Harbaugh lines up to go for it... just to draw them offsides. Cincy doesn't bite. Instead of calling a timeout... they decide to get a delay of game penalty... and it pushes them back 5 yards.

Now, Why not go for it? You have momentum. Very long drive. Cincy no answers in stopping your run game. Very short 1 yard... like a half a yard. You're already up 3? GO FOR IT!! Harbaugh decides to kick a FG? The entire sequence... very odd.

2nd sequence... After Cincy's go ahead TD.... Both Cincy and Baltimore have 3 timeouts remaining... we're under 2 minutes to go... Baltimore just systematically marches down the field... Baltimore burns 1 TO at the 1:10 mark at their own 45 yrd line. Next play... BOOM 19 yard gain... at Cincy 36 yard line 0:56 seconds to go. Cincy burns first TO... in an effort to save time to get the ball back since Baltimore is in FG range. Baltimore gets the 1st down... and Cincy has 0 TO's left. There's literally 42 seconds to go roughly... at Cincy 25 yard line. Why didn't John Harbaugh run some plays to get the kicker in closer range??? What about trying to score a TD? A 41 yard FG is still a long distance... you'd rather be closer. You could have a bad hold... bad snap. There's plenty of time left... 41 seconds... and you have 2 TO's left.

Why did he play ultra conservative in that situation??? The last 2 drives... you carved up Cincy like swiss cheese. Weather was fine.... I just don't understand why everything simply halted after the first down?

Both Jim and John Harbaugh ALWAYS know the spreads. They always know what side Vegas wants. You can clearly tell in the play calling... and decision making.

It's all about money. Yes, what Vegas wants it.

If you looked at the Chargers-Browns game in which Chargers went for 4th down in their own territory during the last minute of 4q while leading by 2 pts, how could it be possible? They wanted Browns to win the game.
No wonder, why Vegas accepts 1million bets for NFL.

bhoor · 10-10-22, 08:38 PM

Originally posted by franklee168

I’m a firm believer when it comes to gambling, you hope that you’re on the right side of these pre determined outcomes. Like I always say, at least wrestling finally admitted they were for entertainment only.

Yes, I do believe in that, too. The games that have most actions will go in favor of Vegas.

thetrinity · 10-10-22, 09:02 PM

The first one was a close decision but later in the game like 10 minutes left, not in the third quarter. I like backing the other team up against their end zone if I miss personally. I see what other guys are saying though too, that you are going up by more than a fg when you kick it. This one really depends on gameflow to me.

The second one seems like a no brainer with the kicker they have, really with most nfl kickers even. Let him decide the game. Not some fumble or something stupid like a holding penalty on a run to move you back 10. I think he did what he should have done.

Money is right about the ravens winning and not covering though. Books love those results where -3 loses but the team wins SU by 1 or 2

jjgold · 10-10-22, 09:09 PM

Funny thread by frustrated gamblers

MiDNiTe · 10-10-22, 09:13 PM

Guy blew it last week on the 4th down and then saw a few times it have FG lead and protected it multiple times on last drive like Cleveland so went super conservative

KVB · 10-10-22, 09:37 PM

Oh wow a lot to unpack in this thread. I'm just going to pick a couple of things and probably disappoint readers.

First...

Originally posted by franklee168

I’m a firm believer when it comes to gambling, you hope that you’re on the right side of these pre determined outcomes. Like I always say, at least wrestling finally admitted they were for entertainment only.

The NFL has argued in court that they are one, single, entertainment package. They are not a collection of 32 franchises competing on the gridiron, they are one unit of entertainment. This has been argued to keep an anit trust exemption and is supported with revenue sharing and TV packages. Further, when the Jets season ticketholder sued the NFL for years of back pay for ticket costs for all fans when it was revealed the NE was cheating by filming the Jets the NFL argued again it was entertainment, like a soap opera, and the ticket came with a seat to the show, and that's all it came with as any expectation of fairness or otherwise is unwarranted.

Courts agreed and figured if the fan case succeeded leagues would be sued all over the place, including the MLB steroid era.

So the NFL has argued that they are entertainment, at least in court they have.

Hope all is well frank, heard a rumor you did well across the street.