I just made 2 Futures bets on the Cleveland Cavaliers

**shadymcgrady** · 10-28-21, 08:49 AM

Playoffs would've been a better bet Mac.

Sexton is a black hole, his teammates don't even like playing with him. Markannen couldn't stop a nose bleed on defense or get a rebound. He's a 7 foot shooter and a streak one at that.

Mobley is good, okoro and garland could be good. Everyone else is a solid role player

**Darkside Magick** · 10-28-21, 08:54 AM

Originally posted by shadymcgrady

Playoffs would've been a better bet Mac.

Sexton is a black hole, his teammates don't even like playing with him. Markannen couldn't stop a nose bleed on defense or get a rebound. He's a 7 foot shooter and a streak one at that.

Mobley is good, okoro and garland could be good. Everyone else is a solid role player

They looking to move Sexton once the right deal come along.... Love will get traded to Nuggets... Okoro will. Be better once sexton gone... Garland is wait and see

**MinnesotaFats** · 10-28-21, 09:08 AM

I like it

NBA doesn't play small anymore.

Bucks biggest team in league, need size to get past em. Cavs have size!

**Crusherrr** · 10-28-21, 09:14 AM

I love the NBA this year so far. So glad the fouls where you lean in to defender and even the ones you just stop dribbling and get run over by a big on a fast break are over with. These refs are letting players play defense. No more 240 O/U's and endless free throws. It's great.

The Knicks are going to have another solid year, too. So I'm loving it.

**Mac4Lyfe** · 10-28-21, 09:24 AM

Originally posted by shadymcgrady

Playoffs would've been a better bet Mac.

Sexton is a black hole, his teammates don't even like playing with him. Markannen couldn't stop a nose bleed on defense or get a rebound. He's a 7 foot shooter and a streak one at that.

Mobley is good, okoro and garland could be good. Everyone else is a solid role player

I can start hedging if they make the playoffs. My books also didn't offer a make the playoffs futures.

What's weird is that Heritage has Cleveland at +8000 to win the Eastern Conference but has them at +12500 to win the Central Division. I guess they think it's a higher chance that the Bucks or Bulls can have a better record in season but maybe the Cavs can pull off upsets in the playoffs? I'll roll the dice on them winning the division. If it's close near the end of the season, I can hedge as well.

I've heard the rumors that teammates don't like Sexton. That is very far from the truth. I have first hand knowlege these guys love playing with him. Him and Love are the 2 leaders on the team. Markannen hopefully can morph his game like Love offensively, defensively he is buying into defending the paint. Mobley is a future superstar. This guy may end up being the steal of the draft. I've seen enough in 5 games to tell me that he is a game changer. The Cavs finally got a steal in the draft. Ricky Rubio is another high IQ guy that will help these young guys.

The next few games will tell us a lot about the Cavs, especially this early West Coast trip. If they get on a run, they could be special. If they lose like dogs then it could be a long season. I see something with their defense. You just don't see that in the NBA these days. They look like a shut down football defensive team. Teams aren't prepared to play a team that can shut you down from getting shots in the paint. Unless you can shoot a high percentage from 3, you are going to have a hard time scoring against them. Now, maybe teams eventually figure them out but I don't think so. These guys are long and can switch the PnR. Good luck with that.

**Mac4Lyfe** · 10-28-21, 09:26 AM

Originally posted by Crusherrr

I love the NBA this year so far. So glad the fouls where you lean in to defender and even the ones you just stop dribbling and get run over by a big on a fast break are over with. These refs are letting players play defense. No more 240 O/U's and endless free throws. It's great.

The Knicks are going to have another solid year, too. So I'm loving it.

I do too. It's reverting back to old school basketball. That plays in very well with the Knicks. I looked at futures for them as well but the odds aren't nearly as attractive.

**shadymcgrady** · 10-28-21, 09:27 AM

The best overall defender is arguably okoro and no one talks about him. Mobley has some promise but sexton is a Lou Williams masquerading as a point guard

**Darkside Magick** · 10-28-21, 09:38 AM

Lmaooooooo... Nba Basketball is about Superstars.. There is not one guy on the Cavs who can get you a bucket when you need need it... Guys just throwing money away...

**Mac4Lyfe** · 10-28-21, 09:41 AM

Originally posted by Darkside Magick

They looking to move Sexton once the right deal come along.... Love will get traded to Nuggets... Okoro will. Be better once sexton gone... Garland is wait and see

The right deal anyone can be moved but right now the Cavs are not looking to move Sexton. The bigger question is if Garland is the PG of the future. He could potentially be moved but he's really learning on the job with Rubio helping him. Altman has done an excellent job with the roster. I wasn't real high on him but he's good. I also think Bickerstaff is going to be a good coach. That could be the one deficiency but so far he's instilling a hard nose, defensive mindset, which I like.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Through four games the Cavs lead the league in assist percentage with 68.5% of their made field goals coming off an assist.<br><br>Rubio and Garland have combined to average 42.5 points per game off their assists alone. (23, 19.5 respectively) <a href="https://t.co/g18nRdo2wW">pic.twitter.com/g18nRdo2wW</a></p>— �� (@ChaseDownPod) <a href="https://twitter.com/ChaseDownPod/status/1453042590551531520?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw" >October 26, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

**Mac4Lyfe** · 10-28-21, 09:45 AM

Originally posted by shadymcgrady

The best overall defender is arguably okoro and no one talks about him. Mobley has some promise but sexton is a Lou Williams masquerading as a point guard

Yes, Okoro is the lock down defender that can guard a Paul George but he's banged up a bit. But Mobley is the game changer. That guy can guard anyone. He is crazy good in the paint and gives guards fits trying to put up a shot. He is so long and quick, you cannot score on that guy. Once he develops an offense like hopefully Durant, good grief, he is going to be a beast.

Not sure why you're so down on Sexton. That guy gives 120% effort. He was sandbagged on this team the last couple of years but has shown plenty of upside. I think now he's getting the proper coaching and is surrounded by better players. The kid has heart.

**Mac4Lyfe** · 10-28-21, 09:48 AM

Originally posted by Darkside Magick

Lmaooooooo... Nba Basketball is about Superstars.. There is not one guy on the Cavs who can get you a bucket when you need need it... Guys just throwing money away...

That's why it's gambling. Don't make a bet where you're not able to throw money away. I could easily say that the Bucks don't have a real guy that can get you a bucket when you need it as well but they won a championship.

The Cavs are a young team. They will make young team mistakes and go through some low spots. But if they catch a heater and gain confidence, they have the pieces to be a top East conference team. Maybe not top 1, 2 or 3 but maybe 4th or 5th and these odds don't reflect that.

**Darkside Magick** · 10-28-21, 09:52 AM

Originally posted by Mac4Lyfe

That's why it's gambling. Don't make a bet where you're not able to throw money away. I could easily say that the Bucks don't have a real guy that can get you a bucket when you need it as well but they won a championship.

The Cavs are a young team. They will make young team mistakes and go through some low spots. But if they catch a heater and gain confidence, they have the pieces to be a top East conference team. Maybe not top 1, 2 or 3 but maybe 4th or 5th and these odds don't reflect that.

Mac stop it... Bucks got 3 guys that can get you a bucket... Giannis.. Middleton and Jrue

**Mac4Lyfe** · 10-28-21, 10:00 AM

Originally posted by Darkside Magick

Mac stop it... Bucks got 3 guys that can get you a bucket... Giannis.. Middleton and Jrue

Giannis was/is one of the worst in clutch time players... Middleton is getting better but still not considered someone you want with the ball at the end of a game. Holiday has been there best option but they still ranked 28th, which was the same as the Cavs last year. Good thing for them they didn't have to face too many crunch time moments.

What can the Bucks' crunch-time performance tell us about their playoff outlook?

https://www.thescore.com/nba/news/2163321

Much scrutiny of the Milwaukee Bucks the past two-plus years has focused on their shortcomings in crunch time, particularly at the offensive end.Skeptics have wondered if the team has a true "closer." They've wondered whether Giannis Antetokounmpo can be that guy, given his inability to punish half-court defenses with off-the-dribble jump shooting, or whether Khris Middleton is good enough to successfully occupy that role in the latter stages of the playoffs. The Bucks' offseason acquisition of Jrue Holiday was at least partly intended to address those questions. On top of Holiday's obvious defensive acumen, throwing another high-level creator into the mix figured to give Milwaukee a lot more late-game stability.There have also been questions about whether Brook Lopez, for all his rim-protecting prowess, can stay on the floor in closing time against elite perimeter-oriented offenses, and if not, who can capably replace him in the closing five. The Bucks have toyed more with having Antetokounmpo close games at center as this season has progressed, and their midseason trade for the ultra-switchable P.J. Tucker gave them another option to slot into those lineups, which present a stylistic alternative to the drop scheme Milwaukee typically plays with Lopez on the floor.And yet, there's a nagging sense that something isn't fully clicking. While the Bucks own the second-best net rating in the league at plus-6.5 and are one of just three teams that rank in the top 10 on both sides of the ball, their 38-23 record looks unimpressive relative to other contenders. One way to read that would be to say they're dramatically better than their record indicates and have simply gotten unlucky in close games. Another would be to say that despite their evident ability to pull away from teams early, they have a tendency to trip over their own feet when things get tight down the stretch. Jesse D. Garrabrant / NBA / Getty ImagesMilwaukee is 8-8 in games that finish with a margin of two possessions or fewer, and 10-14 in games that involve "clutch" time (under five minutes to play, score within five points), with a 107.4 offensive rating in those scenarios that ranks 17th in the league. Clutch-time results are invariably erratic because they reflect a tiny slice of gameplay, but those scenarios can also be revealing in regards to process. In the final possessions of close games, both teams tend to lay all their cards on the table - which means putting their best five players on the floor, running plays solely for their lead scorers, and scrapping their base defensive schemes if necessary.So, what can we glean from the Bucks' late-game process this season? First off, despite being blah overall, they have a plus-17.1 net rating with Antetokounmpo on the floor in clutch time. Also, his usage rate in those scenarios is down to 25.6%, compared to 42.3% last year. He's being asked to initiate far less frequently from up top and is getting way more reps as the screener in pick-and-roll. Moving him off the top of the floor takes away the defense's option of simply walling him off at the nail, and gives him more opportunities to get the ball on the move. And with Middleton and Holiday both plenty capable of rising and firing behind his screens, it's dicier for opponents to defend Antetokounmpo with a gap.Holiday has taken on the majority of Antetokounmpo's redistributed on-ball possessions, and he's shown an ability to do a bit of everything. He can punish drop coverages from deep (his 39.1% mark on pull-up threes is a career best) and from floater range (48.9%). He can also go one-on-one and chisel his way to the hoop against opposing guards. Middleton, one of the game's best multi-level scorers, has become the de facto closer, leading the team in clutch usage even though his share of individual possessions is actually down from last year's. It's a mutually complementary trio, with all three able to score in isolation and work either end of the pick-and-roll. Their most effective go-to in the clutch has been Antetokounmpo screening for one of Middleton or Holiday, with the third guy either spotting up or cutting from the slot or the corner. Sometimes he'll screen for both of them on the same play, flowing from a Middleton-run pick-and-roll directly into a dribble-handoff for Holiday: Your browser does not support the video tag. Fox Sports WisconsinThis should be a fearsome three-pronged attack. So why do the Bucks have a 105.7 offensive rating (about equivalent to that of the 28th-ranked Cavaliers) with all three of them on the floor in fourth quarters?One explanation is that the players around them haven't pulled their weight. With Lopez's post game falling by the wayside and Donte DiVincenzo struggling on just about everything outside of spot-up threes, Milwaukee typically plays two non-threatening creators alongside the trio. That can result in the Bucks stalling out after their initial action gets contained, without enough second-side playmaking to consistently keep the gears churning. But a bigger issue is that Middleton has struggled in clutch time, in terms of both shooting and protecting the basketball. Antetokounmpo and Holiday, by contrast, have been outstanding, but that's probably related to their lighter loads, so it's unclear if shifting more of Middleton's possessions to them is the answer. Though Middleton's handle under pressure is definitely a concern, there's little reason to think his shooting won't stabilize. He's still probably the team's best overall shot creator against a set defense, so the best version of the Bucks likely involves him leading the charge in the clutch. He just needs to be better.If the Bucks get especially desperate for scoring, they can theoretically insert a more offense-oriented player into their closing lineup, be it 3-point flamethrower Bryn Forbes or inside-out masher Bobby Portis. But that would also mean introducing a defensive liability into the mix, and it's something coach Mike Budenholzer has largely declined to try so far. Even if he wanted to, there isn't much time to get high-leverage reps in before the playoffs to see if it can work.The defensive end hasn't been quite as big a problem for the Bucks in crunch time, but they still have a tendency to make untimely gaffes. They've been working all season to introduce more schematic variability, with mixed results. Despite the tweaks around the edges, Milwaukee's defensive identity still rests on protecting the paint and gang rebounding at all costs, and its perimeter players can get caught up over-helping and conceding 3-point looks to knock-down shooters. That happened repeatedly in their fall-from-ahead loss to the Hawks last week, in which they surrendered 41 points in the fourth quarter.Middleton was an unlikely culprit, turning his back on the scorching-hot Bogdan Bogdanovic in order to squeeze in and needlessly provide cover for Middleton on Solomon Hill in the post: Your browser does not support the video tag. NBA Advanced StatsBeing too attached to their core tenets has long been an issue for Budenholzer's Bucks, and that was an instance in which the specific situation needed to take priority over big-picture principles. Meanwhile, attempts to deploy Lopez in non-drop coverages late in games, particularly as a switch defender, continue to go poorly. Against the Rockets on Thursday (a game in which Antetokounmpo was unavailable after the first minute), Kevin Porter Jr. repeatedly toasted Lopez on switches down the stretch, en route to 50 points. While the Bucks' starters have been very good overall this season, that group has been comfortably outscored in the fourth quarter, their defensive rating ballooning to 116.5. Whether because of fatigue or because opponents are more zeroed in on him, Lopez's late-game struggles have been evident, and he's begun to see the bench more often in crunch time. Downsizing is not a panacea, but it certainly makes the Bucks more switchable. And that makes defending multi-screen sets - which tend to give them problems in their base scheme - a little easier. Watch how effectively they blow up this Hornets' Spain action with their seamless switching: Your browser does not support the video tag. NBA TVThe four-man combo of Antetokounmpo, Holiday, Middleton, and DiVincenzo has thrived this season almost no matter who the fifth participant has been. The Bucks have a handful of options for replacing Lopez if it comes to that, but they've almost exclusively used Pat Connaughton in closing units. And with good reason! That lineup has outscored opponents by 40 points across 38 minutes.The core quartet hasn't gotten much run with Tucker, who missed a bunch of time with a calf strain, but that lineup has defended extremely well in its limited sample. On the whole, lineups with Giannis at the 5 (for the purposes of this exercise we'll consider Tucker a 4 in those groups) have a 14.3 net rating and 100.5 defensive rating in 92 minutes, with the bulk of those minutes coming in fourth quarters.So, the overall struggles aren't a cause for panic. The reality is, clutch performance proves to be an outlier far more often than it proves predictive. Jimmy Butler, to use but one example, was statistically one of the worst clutch-time players in basketball last regular season. Then, as the Bucks know all too well, he morphed into a ruthless closer for the entirety of the playoffs. There are encouraging signs for Milwaukee from a process perspective, which should take precedence over the results.But try as one might, it's hard to fully separate the team's present from its past. Though the team looks different this year, most of the key figures are the same, from Antetokounmpo and Middleton on the court to Budenholzer on the sidelines. Milwaukee went a combined 3-7 in "clutch" games over the last two postseasons, getting outscored by 10.4 points per 100 possessions in crunch time in 2019 and 23.6 points per 100 in 2020.Again, those were tiny samples (29 minutes and 18 minutes, respectively), so they don't necessarily portend more of the same. But postseason fortunes are made and broken in small samples, and the fact that late-game execution is a bugaboo that continues to haunt the Bucks, in spite of their personnel and schematic changes, has to be at least a little troubling. As formidable as they look on paper, would you trust them right now to pull out a must-win playoff game in the clutch?Joe Wolfond is a feature writer for theScore.

This should be a fearsome three-pronged attack. So why do the Bucks have a 105.7 offensive rating (about equivalent to that of the 28th-ranked Cavaliers) with all three of them on the floor in fourth quarters?

**Darkside Magick** · 10-28-21, 10:04 AM

Mac all Daryl Morey with the analytics

**Mac4Lyfe** · 10-28-21, 10:06 AM

Originally posted by Darkside Magick

Mac all Daryl Morey with the analytics

The only thing I can back up my assertion is stats/facts...

**unde0087** · 10-28-21, 10:06 AM

Originally posted by Darkside Magick

Lmaooooooo... Nba Basketball is about Superstars.. There is not one guy on the Cavs who can get you a bucket when you need need it... Guys just throwing money away...

**Mac4Lyfe** · 10-28-21, 10:23 AM

Wouldn't be the first or last time I throw money away. Gambling is all about calling your shot. Don't be scared.

**Darkside Magick** · 10-28-21, 10:27 AM

Originally posted by Mac4Lyfe

Wouldn't be the first or last time I throw money away. Gambling is all about calling your shot. Don't be scared.

Could have took that money to JACK Casino and played blackjack or Wonder Woman slots

**Mac4Lyfe** · 10-28-21, 10:46 AM

Originally posted by Darkside Magick

Could have took that money to JACK Casino and played blackjack or Wonder Woman slots

I have a very wealthy friend in LA. He had a Chinese guy come into his office one afternoon pitching a crazy idea. He gave that man $1.5 million dollars and didn't even have an address on the guy. 3 years later that same guy walked into his office and gave him a check for $5 million.

A friend of mine introduced me to a guy who immediately asked me for $20k to help save his failing car wash in Tampa Fla. Anytime I give someone money, I always consider it a gift. Well, I've never seen or heard from that guy since. You win some you lose some. I have very few worries in life. Money ain't one of them. I've won and lost $20k blackjack hands.

**Darkside Magick** · 10-28-21, 10:52 AM

Angel investor

**d2bets** · 10-28-21, 12:26 PM

Interesting idea, but I just found the same bets at MUCH higher odds.

**d2bets** · 10-28-21, 12:35 PM

Just found them +2000 to make the playoffs. Think I'd prefer that to any of the others. If they do make the playoffs I would think they'd easily be more than 10-1 to win at all from there from the field of 16.

**ezesports** · 10-28-21, 01:46 PM

Mac, I take it you're from Cleveland?

**JMUplayer** · 10-28-21, 01:55 PM

When is the last time Rubio played a meaningful game? He’s the Uptons of mlb

**TheMetsSuck** · 10-28-21, 01:58 PM

Biggest waste of money I’ve seen on this site. I just flushed a shit down the toilet thinking of your bets lol

**d2bets** · 10-28-21, 02:14 PM

They're not going to win division or title, but they are better than expected and might be able to squeak into play-in and then playoffs. Maybe. Probably not.

**lonegambler23** · 10-28-21, 02:16 PM

light your money on fire. this is the nba not college random basketball

**d2bets** · 10-28-21, 02:23 PM

Originally posted by lonegambler23

light your money on fire. this is the nba not college random basketball

Huh? They have a better chance than some random crappy college team that has no chance.

I'm not saying Cleve wins the division or whatever, but when a team has a lot of new players, especially young, you never quite know what might happen. I think this year is going to be especially weird and I'm expecting a lot of parity. Don't expect 65 win or 15 win teams. Gonna be a lot of teams bunched up in the 35-45 win range.

**jjgold** · 10-28-21, 02:57 PM

They look pretty good lotta teams are more balanced this year

**lakerboy** · 10-28-21, 03:04 PM

Originally posted by Mac4Lyfe

Wouldn't be the first or last time I throw money away. Gambling is all about calling your shot. Don't be scared.

I agree with this but the Cavs are not winning either of the two bets you made.

They have gotten off to a nice start. I have them at 37 wins tops.

**Mac4Lyfe** · 10-28-21, 03:18 PM

Originally posted by d2bets

Just found them +2000 to make the playoffs. Think I'd prefer that to any of the others. If they do make the playoffs I would think they'd easily be more than 10-1 to win at all from there from the field of 16.

+2000 to make the playoffs is a great bet. What book?

But +20000 to win it all is pretty much the same bet as well. I'm not sure they'd be 10-1 from that point. I should be able to start hedging once they make the playoffs.

I think we might see a lot of parody as well. The teams in the Central could beat up on each other and make it a close race. If they could just stay close into the last few weeks, there'll be some good hedging opportunities there as well.

**Mac4Lyfe** · 10-28-21, 03:33 PM

Originally posted by lakerboy

I agree with this but the Cavs are not winning either of the two bets you made. They have gotten off to a nice start. I have them at 37 wins tops.

I'd love for them to win the division but I can accept them being just good enough to hedge. These next few games will tell me if they are around 35 or over 50. Is their paint defense a mirage or is it the real thing???

Originally posted by ezesports

Mac, I take it you're from Cleveland?

Of course I am. I follow them closer than any other NBA team. I'm a homer, no doubt but I'm also a realist. If they sucked, I'll tell you they suck. They might suck, no one really knows at this point. I see some things so far that are pretty exciting, especially their defense.

Stat #1: Evan Mobley is holding opponents to 47 percent shooting at the rim
For context, last season Rudy Gobert led the league at 48% (among high-volume players).

Stat #2: The Cavs lead the league in fewest free throws against
Opponents of the Cleveland Cavaliers have taken just 14 free throws per game, which leads the NBA through the first seven days of the season. That’s a trend that could continue to some extent. J.B. Bickerstaff coaches a conservative defense that tries to avoid fouling, and last year they ranked seventh in the league with 20.4 attempts per game.

Stat #3: The Cavaliers are shooting 79.2 percent from inside three feet
The Cleveland Cavaliers have been monsters inside this season, ranking top-5 in dunks (Jarrett Allen is first in the league) and sitting second in terms of field goal percentage at the rim. Some of those made baskets have been self-created, but the Cavs have done an excellent job of setting each other up for lobs and passes on the roll.

What is even more impressive is that last year the Cavs ranked dead last in this number, hitting just 62.6 percent of their shots at the rim. The emphasis on getting into the defense and then finding the open big man has been clear on film, and the numbers back it up. The most efficient shots in basketball are at the rim, and the Cavs have been taking full advantage.

and they are winning games while Markkanen is struggling shooting the rock. If he can get hot from outside, that's just one more piece to the offense.

**d2bets** · 10-28-21, 03:37 PM

Originally posted by Mac4Lyfe

+2000 to make the playoffs is a great bet. What book?

But +20000 to win it all is pretty much the same bet as well. I'm not sure they'd be 10-1 from that point. I should be able to start hedging once they make the playoffs.

I think we might see a lot of parody as well. The teams in the Central could beat up on each other and make it a close race. If they could just stay close into the last few weeks, there'll be some good hedging opportunities there as well.

Draftkings.

And yes, come on, they'd be WAY more than 10-1 to win it all at the start of the playoffs. It's a 16-team field, and let's be honest, if they make it it's probably as a squeak in on a play-in. The big boys will be heavily favored and it won't them. Only the top 3 or 4 teams, tops, in the NBA would have odds less than 10-1. They'd have to win 4 series and they'd probably be underdogs, probably severe ones, in each. To be 10-1, they'd have to be favored to win most of the series. You can't believe that. It would be more like 50-1, and even that might be low. Go take a look at what a typical 7 or 8 seed is to win the title at the start of a playoffs. So I see zero value in 200-1 champ (should be 1,000-1, which is what draftkings has). Harder to evaluate the division wager, but I seriously doubt it. Need Giannis and Lavine to go down for the year, or something like that.

You may be right that Cleveland is better than most think, but you're way overstating some of these odds.

IF they make the playoffs, you might be able to squeak out a little profit hedging the 200-1, but it won't have been worth the risk of losing the wager in the first place by missing the playoffs (which is quite likely).

But who am I to judge a homer? I bet the Bulls 100-1 to win the title. Actually, I think that was a damn good deal, I can't find better than 50-1 now. My theory was that with so many new players, we just don't know how good they might be. Still don't, but it seems they might be pretty good. DeRozan, Ball and Caruso were damn fine additions.

**edawg** · 10-28-21, 03:55 PM

The only good thing about Mac is he is down for the land!