I dont get why Americans arent down with our Canadian healthcare system

[andywend]

Why should healthcare and pharmaceuticals which are used by millions of sick people have a profit margin of 10 billion dollars per company? Why shouldn't they have a 1 billion profit margin and the other 9 billion be used to lower drug costs. I have acid reflux and I don't understand why my bottle of Nexium costs $150 for 30 day supply. Can you tell me?

Pavyracer, which scenario would you personally prefer:

1. Paying $150 for a 30 day supply of Nexium?
2. NOT having any Nexium to buy and having to deal with your acid reflux problem on your own?

Isn't it worth $5/day to have your acid reflux problems treated properly?

If the engine manifold gasket breaks in your car, why should you have to pay $1,500 to get it fixed? Wouldn't it be better if it only cost $200?

Liberals always talk about rushing to Canada to pick up heavily discounted generic drugs and what a great deal they are.

What they don't mention is that Canada rarely comes up with any ground breaking drugs on their own but simply waits for U.S. drug patents to expire and then mass markets generic versions.

I can certainly understand the arguments about diluting the profit motive when talking about perserving human life. However, without the profit motive, new research will grind to a halt.

Without that profit motive, there would be no Nexium.

[Willie Bee]

Always good to start each morning off with a good dose of comedy, which this thread provides.

[andywend]

Quote:
Originally Posted by andywend

The 85%+ of Americans who currently have medical coverage are going to see a serious reduction in the quality of medical care they receive if Obama's plan becomes a reality.

What an unbelievable statement.

How do you know if you have health insurance? Until you get cancer or some other serious, costly condition, you DON'T know. Insurance is just a theory until it gets tested. THEN you stand a good chance of being rejected.

Health insurance companies in the US are like bookies who constantly reject winning parlays AFTER THE GAMES ARE FINISHED.

And you know who the only people are who DON'T have to worry about being rejected after the fact? People with government provided health insurance!

So don't tell me you're against goverment insurance, because that would mean not only that you're against Medicare, but also against insurance for the military and their families, because in the former case, you have government provided insurance, and for the military, actual, flat-out government provided health care.

Pokerjoe, you know NOTHING about medical insurance and how it really works.

Medical insurance companies can NOT change the terms of the policy after its issued. You're just another left-wing whacko talking about something you obviously know NOTHING ABOUT.

I am 100% AGAINST Medicare the way its being run by the federal government. The Medicare system in its current form will bankrupt our nation all by itself. As far as government run health care for the military and their families, I read about the horror stories on a daily basis.

THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS NOT EQUIPPED TO HANDLE HEALTH CARE and this has been proven again and again and again.

Losturmarbles, pay no attention to this Pokerjoe guy. He doesn't have a clue as to what he's talking about as is the case with 99% of liberal democrats.

[Willie Bee]

Medical insurance companies can NOT change the terms of the policy after its issued. You're just another left-wing whacko talking about something you obviously know NOTHING ABOUT.

And you, sir, know NOTHING about how insurance companies work and operate, and what they WILL attempt to get away with. Insurance companies change the rules in the ninth inning ALL THE FCUKING TIME! Now granted, they don't always get away with what they try to get out of, but often they do. And this is not just medical insurance, but the general modus operandi within the entire insurance industry.

[Robyn]

Why aren't Americans down with the concept?

Special interests, my friend. They run this country.

[jackpot269]

And you, sir, know NOTHING about how insurance companies work and operate, and what they WILL attempt to get away with. Insurance companies change the rules in the ninth inning ALL THE FCUKING TIME! Now granted, they don't always get away with what they try to get out of, but often they do. And this is not just medical insurance, but the general modus operandi within the entire insurance industry.

Anyone who thinks that this does not happen just don't pay attention!! With dealing with any big company, and the INS. industry is by far the lowest of the low!! Ins. = legal rackeetering

[pavyracer]

Pavyracer, which scenario would you personally prefer:

1. Paying $150 for a 30 day supply of Nexium?
2. NOT having any Nexium to buy and having to deal with your acid reflux problem on your own?

Isn't it worth $5/day to have your acid reflux problems treated properly?

If the engine manifold gasket breaks in your car, why should you have to pay $1,500 to get it fixed? Wouldn't it be better if it only cost $200?

Liberals always talk about rushing to Canada to pick up heavily discounted generic drugs and what a great deal they are.

What they don't mention is that Canada rarely comes up with any ground breaking drugs on their own but simply waits for U.S. drug patents to expire and then mass markets generic versions.

I can certainly understand the arguments about diluting the profit motive when talking about perserving human life. However, without the profit motive, new research will grind to a halt.

Without that profit motive, there would be no Nexium.

You can't convince me with enough arguements that a pill weighing 40mg and is used to treat a very common symptom that is not life threatening is being sold for $5 a pill for about 1000% profit. I make 6 digits salary and can afford it but how is the guy making $8 an hour can afford it? It is mind boggling to me that a drug exists that can save millions of people from suffering and some executive decides to sell it at a huge profit to justify his billion dollar bonuses. I couldn't sleep myself if I was the executive of that drug company that got the billion dollar bonus and thousands of people suffered because they couldn't afford to buy his highly profitable drug.

[losturmarbles]

You can't convince me with enough arguements that a pill weighing 40mg and is used to treat a very common symptom that is not life threatening is being sold for $5 a pill for about 1000% profit. I make 6 digits salary and can afford it but how is the guy making $8 an hour can afford it? It is mind boggling to me that a drug exists that can save millions of people from suffering and some executive decides to sell it at a huge profit to justify his billion dollar bonuses. I couldn't sleep myself if I was the executive of that drug company that got the billion dollar bonus and thousands of people suffered because they couldn't afford to buy his highly profitable drug.

did you not read the post you quoted?

go live in a renocool third world utopia, where innovation is an unknown concept and prosperity is just created out of thin air.
but there you wont need nexium unless it also remedies having your head stuck up your ass.

[losturmarbles]

Why aren't Americans down with the concept?

Special interests, my friend. They run this country.

the fed runs this country

[losturmarbles]

I've lived both sides of the border and the most disturbing things I've seen is 2 couples I know who were hard working blue and white collar workers who has very comfortable retirments lost most of their savings to grave medical conditions..........Long story short BROKE due to high continual costs due to serious(ie...dialysis) conditions........SO you work 30-40+ yrs and lose everything in a year or two.......very sad, the system in Canada will support you and this cannot happen, I've seen it happen 1st hand in the states...

would you rather be alive on dialysis or just die.

why is it the tax payers responsibility to pay for your dialysis?
serious medical conditions is what insurance is for. 30-40 years? that's it?

i agree it's sad. that's life, deal with it.

edit... if the health care industry wasn't controlled and mandated to death by government, and instead forced to compete in free markets, health care cost, even for "serious" conditions wouldnt cost so much as to bankrupt a person.

[losturmarbles]

happened to me, i broke my neck in a car accident, insurance puled some bs, exluded me, im now in the hole over 300k, buried.... fukk these insurance companies, i would love socialized medicine myself..i said it...

what "bs" did they pull to exclude you? just curious.

[Robyn]

would you rather be alive on dialysis or just die.

why is it the tax payers responsibility to pay for your dialysis?
serious medical conditions is what insurance is for. 30-40 years? that's it?

i agree it's sad. that's life, deal with it.

edit... if the health care industry wasn't controlled and mandated to death by government, and instead forced to compete in free markets, health care cost, even for "serious" conditions wouldnt cost so much as to bankrupt a person.

If the guy lost his job due to his serious illness, the government would be paying for his health care anyway. What's your point?

We are currently in the process of looking for another insurance company to cover our employees. We have several employees with serious medical conditions and it is extremely difficult to obtain decent coverage with affordable premiums because of this.

Special interests (i.e. insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies, frivolous lawsuits rendered by the gross misuse of our judicial system, etc.) run this grand country of ours.

[nosniboR11]

robyn no wonder you and bread are together , you both have no clue about anything

[Robyn]

robyn no wonder you and bread are together , you both have no clue about anything

And what exactly is your clue on everything?

[Robyn]

robyn no wonder you and bread are together , you both have no clue about anything

And p.s. Don't EVER compare me to my husband. Just because you dislike him, don't presume for one moment that we share the same brain, you fucking vile piece of shit.

[Bread]

robyn no wonder you and bread are together , you both have no clue about anything

You tell her buddy! Good show!

[robzilla]

I just paid 50.00 for 2 anti anxiery medications. It wouldve been like 500.00 down south.

[Robyn]

I can't believe that I let a guy who lacks the ability to capitalize words and properly punctuate, rile me up.

[Bread]

Robyn did you know that his name is ROBINSON backwards?? How freakin ingenious is that?!?!?

I'd tread lightly with this one.

[pavyracer]

If the guy lost his job due to his serious illness, the government would be paying for his health care anyway. What's your point?

We are currently in the process of looking for another insurance company to cover our employees. We have several employees with serious medical conditions and it is extremely difficult to obtain decent coverage with affordable premiums because of this.

Special interests (i.e. insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies, frivolous lawsuits rendered by the gross misuse of our judicial system, etc.) run this grand country of ours.

Robyn I gave you a point for this post with the condition of pulling your head off your ass as lostyourmarbles wants.

[pavyracer]

And p.s. Don't EVER compare me to my husband. Just because you dislike him, don't presume for one moment that we share the same brain, you fucking vile piece of shit.

Robyn he hates me too. Never done anything to the guy. I even pointed out to him once he spelled his name backwards.

[andywend]

Quote:
Originally Posted by andywend
Medical insurance companies can NOT change the terms of the policy after its issued. You're just another left-wing whacko talking about something you obviously know NOTHING ABOUT.

And you, sir, know NOTHING about how insurance companies work and operate, and what they WILL attempt to get away with. Insurance companies change the rules in the ninth inning ALL THE FCUKING TIME! Now granted, they don't always get away with what they try to get out of, but often they do. And this is not just medical insurance, but the general modus operandi within the entire insurance industry.

Willie, what is your main line of work other than being a moderator on this forum?
Do you have any SPECIFIC INVOLVEMENT in any aspect with the medical insurance industry or have you chosen to simply repeat recycled information that you have read or heard?

Perhaps you should do some real research on your own about the subject before attempting to talk like you're an authority because you sound foolish when you state things that are so clearly inaccurate.

Robyn, you stated the following:
"We are currently in the process of looking for another insurance company to cover our employees. We have several employees with serious medical conditions and it is extremely difficult to obtain decent coverage with affordable premiums because of this. "

Are you trying to say that medical insurance companies are the "bad guys" because they are insisting on charging higher premiums for those with SERIOUS MEDICAL CONDITIONS?

If it was your money at risk, would you be willing to insure your group of employees at standard rates knowing you would be responsible for the payment of the majority of their medical bills going forward?

Other than Losturmarbles, everyone here is spouting off about a subject they know very little about.

With that being said, the medical insurance industry is far from perfect and several problems do exist. However, the solution to these problems has not even been remotely mentioned by anyone here and the worst thing that can be done is to have the federal government completely overhaul the medical system when its not necessary especially knowing they will NOT be able to do so effectively.

Medical insurance should have no involvement when it comes to minor procedures like annual physical exams, routine office visits and minor surgical procedures. I would guess the above represents over 95% of the medical services provided in this country.

When dealing with minor procedures, the account should be settled directly between doctors and patients as was the case before medical insurance companies came into existence. This can include setting up payment plans if necessary.

However, in order for this to work, people have to get it through their heads that unlimited free medical care is NOT a right of every American. Unfortunately, our country is getting further and further away from this line of thinking so the problem is getting worse and worse.

Anyone who believes a federal government takeover of the medical care system is the answer to all the problems that exist is going to realize soon enough how wrong they were.

[Pokerjoe]

Pokerjoe, you know NOTHING about medical insurance and how it really works.

Medical insurance companies can NOT change the terms of the policy after its issued. You're just another left-wing whacko talking about something you obviously know NOTHING ABOUT.

I am 100% AGAINST Medicare the way its being run by the federal government. The Medicare system in its current form will bankrupt our nation all by itself. As far as government run health care for the military and their families, I read about the horror stories on a daily basis.

THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS NOT EQUIPPED TO HANDLE HEALTH CARE and this has been proven again and again and again.

Losturmarbles, pay no attention to this Pokerjoe guy. He doesn't have a clue as to what he's talking about as is the case with 99% of liberal democrats.

I'm neither a liberal nor a democrat.

You, however, WILL take Medicare when you're eligible.

Choke on your hypocrisy, hatemonger.

[Robyn]

Willie, what is your main line of work other than being a moderator on this forum?


Robyn, you stated the following:
"We are currently in the process of looking for another insurance company to cover our employees. We have several employees with serious medical conditions and it is extremely difficult to obtain decent coverage with affordable premiums because of this. "

Are you trying to say that medical insurance companies are the "bad guys" because they are insisting on charging higher premiums for those with SERIOUS MEDICAL CONDITIONS?

If it was your money at risk, would you be willing to insure your group of employees at standard rates knowing you would be responsible for the payment of the majority of their medical bills going forward?

So what are you suggesting? That people who are ill do not deserve affordable healthcare? That the elderly and sickly should simply die because they can't afford to live?

Are you insinuating that the inflated cost of pharmaceuticals and health care in the United States is acceptable? If so, surely you have invested in some kind of stock or have your hand securely dipped in the cookie jar of the health care industry.

[losturmarbles]

I'm neither a liberal nor a democrat.

You, however, WILL take Medicare when you're eligible.

Choke on your hypocrisy, hatemonger.

i was going to wait until later when i had more time to respond to your previous posts, but you make me especially the hatemonger part.

i would opt out of social security/medicare in a heartbeat if i could.

[durito]

i find it remarkable that apparently many people on medicare seem entirely unaware that medicare is in fact a government run program

[losturmarbles]

So what are you suggesting? That people who are ill do not deserve affordable healthcare? That the elderly and sickly should simply die because they can't afford to live?

Are you insinuating that the inflated cost of pharmaceuticals and health care in the United States is acceptable? If so, surely you have invested in some kind of stock or have your pen securely dipped in the inkwell of the health care industry.

yeah the only 2 options are either the government pays for your health care or you die.

come on robyn, youre smarter than this.

[Robyn]

Robyn he hates me too. Never done anything to the guy. I even pointed out to him once he spelled his name backwards.

Pavs, some people will never be normal like us.

[Robyn]

yeah the only 2 options are either the government pays for your health care or you die.

come on robyn, youre smarter than this.

Apparently I am not. Enlighten me.

[losturmarbles]

Apparently I am not. Enlighten me.

well first off, it comes down to government reliance versus personal responsibility.

you take responsibility for your own health care costs. if you have to file bankruptcy afterward, so be it.

beyond that there is family support, charities, churches, private organizations, fund raisers, sponsors, universities studying new treatments.

there is always a private sector answer. and if government wasnt busy inhibiting the private sector, there would be a lot more.

i dont agree with the cost of health care, but why do you think hospitals charge you $200 for a $5 shot, or $10 for 2 tylenol? is it because theyre exposed to the free market?

why is it in health care, the more technology, the more advancements, the higher the cost? this is contrary to nearly every industry. imagine if government controlled the electronic industry. VCRs would still cost thousands of dollars, do you think government could have ever came up with the iphone? the kindle? innovation and ingenuity are offspring of free market forces. government controlled healthcare is just that government controlled. and when the government controls it, there is no market, there is no freedom.

[andywend]

Quote:
Originally Posted by andywend
Willie, what is your main line of work other than being a moderator on this forum?


Robyn, you stated the following:
"We are currently in the process of looking for another insurance company to cover our employees. We have several employees with serious medical conditions and it is extremely difficult to obtain decent coverage with affordable premiums because of this. "

Are you trying to say that medical insurance companies are the "bad guys" because they are insisting on charging higher premiums for those with SERIOUS MEDICAL CONDITIONS?

If it was your money at risk, would you be willing to insure your group of employees at standard rates knowing you would be responsible for the payment of the majority of their medical bills going forward?

So what are you suggesting? That people who are ill do not deserve affordable healthcare? That the elderly and sickly should simply die because they can't afford to live?

Are you insinuating that the inflated cost of pharmaceuticals and health care in the United States is acceptable? If so, surely you have invested in some kind of stock or have your hand securely dipped in the cookie jar of the health care industry.

Close but not quite!!!

People who are ill certainly deserve health care but they are NOT entitled to AFFORDABLE health care and especially NOT free health care.

How about a man who has severe health problems, weighs 300 pounds, smokes heavily who has a family of 4? He wants to do the right thing and keep his family financially secure in the event of his untimely death? Does he deserve life insurance at affordable rates? Should he be ENTITLED to life insurance at standard or preferred rates?

Its not a matter of being deserving and never has been. Its a matter of people incorrectly beliveing they are ENTITLED.

I am not only insinuating the high cost of pharmaceuticals in the United States is acceptable BUT AN ABSOLUTE NECESSITY.

[Willie Bee]

i find it remarkable that apparently many people on medicare seem entirely unaware that medicare is in fact a government run program

Unfortunately, many of those same people are allowed to vote.

The Willie Bee Health Care Plan is very simple. Lawyers are only allowed to talk to doctors when the lawyers are sick. Doctors are only allowed to read about new medicines, but not talk to drug company execs or salesmen. Drug company execs are not allowed to do business with any ad agency-slash-marketing companies. And anyone who works for the FDA will be shot, twice to make sure, if they're caught taking bribes from anyone even remotely connected to the health care industry. Plus all federal employees, including elected officials and their staff, will be forced to contribute to and be part of any health care regulations, reform and system they pass through legislation.

Willie Bee in 2012. I'll get the job done.

[losturmarbles]

Unfortunately, many of those same people are allowed to vote.

The Willie Bee Health Care Plan is very simple. Lawyers are only allowed to talk to doctors when the lawyers are sick. Doctors are only allowed to read about new medicines, but not talk to drug company execs or salesmen. Drug company execs are not allowed to do business with any ad agency-slash-marketing companies. And anyone who works for the FDA will be shot, twice to make sure, if they're caught taking bribes from anyone even remotely connected to the health care industry. Plus all federal employees, including elected officials and their staff, will be forced to contribute to and be part of any health care regulations, reform and system they pass through legislation.

Willie Bee in 2012. I'll get the job done.

definitely agree with the last part. but i would be more concerned with medicaid recipients being allowed to vote than i would ignorant medicare recipients.

[pavyracer]

I like it when they call it health care industry. It's an industry like making steel or cement. Shouldn't is be a service though instead? Making enough money just to pay for reasonable expenses to acquire raw materials and pay for reasonable salaries for employees. Then don't waist any advertising dollars on TV or magazines for the drugs. I don't fukking want to ask my doctor what to do if my pee stream is weak or my poop won't come out. I can go to the doctor if I had that predicament and get prescribed a $10 drug and not a $100 drug because I have to pay for the stupid advertising while I eat dinner.

[losturmarbles]

You have lost your marbles.

We have crap health care ESPECIALLY when it matters most. Get cancer, then get your insurance cancelled later because you didn't dot an i on your application. Or get cancer, conveniently get fired, lose your coverage, and be unable to find work again because ... you had cancer.

yeah get cancer. where are you going to go for treatment? canada? lol

the US has significantly higher survival rates than europe and canada. but i guess suckling mother canada's tit for inferior treatment sounds like a good idea, lets just hope they dont keep you waiting too long... free health care is very popular. oh wait that's right, free , canada's tax rates are even higher than the US.