I dont get why Americans arent down with our Canadian healthcare system

[andywend]

Quote:
Originally Posted by fiveteamer
No system is perfect, and no system is free.

However, socialized health care is the model that most of the free, developed world chooses. For good reason.

Well said.....

The vast majority of people living in countries having socialized medical systems were NOT the ones who chose it. Their elected representatives did and the majority of the population is simply stuck with it.

However, these same elected representatives who chose socialized medicine for the general population do NOT subject themselves or their loved ones to the low quality medical care that exists within the socialized medicine framework.

When these politicians or their families get sick, they receive specialized medical care IMMEDIATELY whenever the need should arise and if their own medical care system is not equipped to deal with their problem, they come to the U.S..

I wonder why that is?

The democrats have been praising my country's social security system and deemed it a rousing success but when it comes to their own personal retirement, they want NO PART OF IT.

Barbara Boxer, the long time senator of California and one of the worst politicians in the history of my country says the following about Social Security:

http://boxer.senate.gov/issues/socsecdebate.cfm

However, when asked how she felt about merging the government worker retirement plan with social security, she was strongly opposed to the idea.

The government worker retirement plan which requires no financial contribution is stuffed with cash while the social security system which requires a 15.3% annual contribution is in major trouble.

According to the democrats and Barack Obama, socialized medicine is good enough for you but NOT good enough for them.

You sure didn't read about Ted Kennedy going to an HMO when he needed specialized medical care.

[reno cool]

The takers are in fact the insurance companies, accountants, lawyers, doctors, drug manufacturers and everyone else who makes a killing of the misfortune of others. The givers are the public who's forced to feed this system. Once again you right-wing morons have it exactly backward.

[pavyracer]

The takers are in fact the insurance companies, accountants, lawyers, doctors, drug manufacturers and everyone else who makes a killing of the misfortune of others. The givers are the public who's forced to feed this system. Once again you right-wing morons have it exactly backward.

[losturmarbles]

The takers are in fact the insurance companies, accountants, lawyers, doctors, drug manufacturers and everyone else who makes a killing of the misfortune of others. The givers are the public who's forced to feed this system. Once again you right-wing morons have it exactly backward.

yeah anyone that it out to make a profit is a taker in your world reno. and no one is allowed to "take" except the government of course, right? lol

[losturmarbles]

That is where we differ. I happen to believe certain things are a right.

Housing, food, water, access to heath care.

And if you think going to a dermatologist is frivolous, I go to get moles checked out for cancer. It's much cheaper to catch the cancer before it develops full bore.

where does one obtain these rights?

so if i have food and you dont, you have a right to my food?
or if i have water and you dont, you have a right to my water?
or if i have a house and you dont, you have a right to my house?
or if i am a doctor and you dont have money to pay for health care, you have a right to my services?

is this how it works?

[pavyracer]

yeah anyone that it out to make a profit is a taker in your world reno. and no one is allowed to "take" except the government of course, right? lol

Give me one humane reason a healthcare provider and a pharmaceutical company would need to make 100 billions in profit every year and their CEO's would live like royalty.

[losturmarbles]

Personally, I'm glad we have "socialized" national defense, police services, fire departments, schools and libraries.

Now if only we can expand it to health care.

socialized? you mean on a federal level?

national defense is a role of government

police and fire protection are roles of government on a state/local level.

schools and libraries aren't roles of government, or shouldnt be. the private sector could do the job twice as good with half the cost.

same goes for health care.

[Willie Bee]

I don't get why Canadians, as much as they and the rest of the world bad-mouth our government here in the US of A, would ever wonder why we Americans don't trust our elected officials enough to get it set up right. I mean, c'mon! If anyone living outside the US is for us having a nationalized health care system, then I want all of them to first say how wonderful and smart and honest our elected officials are.

[losturmarbles]

Give me one humane reason a healthcare provider and a pharmaceutical company would need to make 100 billions in profit every year and their CEO's would live like royalty.

what pharmaceutical company are you talking about. and what's their profit margin?

if we told government to get the fuk out of the way and let market forces make the rules instead of law and policy makers, you wouldnt have a corporate healthcare entity to demagogue.

[pavyracer]

what pharmaceutical company are you talking about. and what's their profit margin?

if we told government to get the fuk out of the way and let market forces make the rules instead of law and policy makers, you wouldnt have a corporate healthcare entity to demagogue.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pharmaceutical_companies

Add their net income up (profit). It's actually more than 100 billion combined.

[losturmarbles]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ical_companies

Add their net income up (profit). It's actually more than 100 billion combined.

your wiki article doesnt have a reference or source.

i'm not getting your point anyway.

[pavyracer]

Why should healthcare and pharmaceuticals which are used by millions of sick people have a profit margin of 10 billion dollars per company? Why shouldn't they have a 1 billion profit margin and the other 9 billion be used to lower drug costs. I have acid reflux and I don't understand why my bottle of Nexium costs $150 for 30 day supply. Can you tell me?

[Thor4140]

We are not all idiots like pavy, down here in America. Must be why all the Canadians that really get sick flock to America for treatment.

I always love hearing this crock of crap. You would think every time u went to the doctors the joint would be flooded with foreigners Gotta love the Becks of the world. They do have their following.

[Willie Bee]

Why should healthcare and pharmaceuticals which are used by millions of sick people should have a profit margin of 10 billion dollars per company? Why shouldn't they have a 1 billion profit margin and the other 9 billion be used to lower drug costs. I have acid reflux and I don't understand why my bottle of Nexium costs $150 for 30 day supply. Can you tell me?

I can tell you: It's because you will pay it. You've got to be kidding me talking about spending two grand a year on acid reflux? I mean, my god man, the reason you spend that much on that ailment might also be to keep the ease the cost of another key drug in the fight for a more serious malady. Where we can cut the cost of health care -- whether it's run by the government or the private sector -- is getting rid of 75% of the fcukin' lawyers, accountants and Madison Avenue shirts that have their god damn hand in the pie.

Pavy, I'll bring some of my wife's acid reflux shit to the bash if it will help any. My advice however is to drink good ale in the evening and then have a bagel, cream cheese, some kind of pork and some fruit for breakfast. Repeat.

[pavyracer]

Willie thanks. It's doctor prescribed and it works for me. I tried to use other cheaper drugs and it doesn't work as good. You take one pill in the morning and you eat anything from jalapenos to spicy thai food. The over the counter stuff doesn't work as good on spicy food.

[Thor4140]

Willie thanks. It's doctor prescribed and it works for me. I tried to use other cheaper drugs and it doesn't work as good. You take one pill in the morning and you eat anything from jalapenos to spicy thai food. The over the counter stuff doesn't work as good on spicy food.

Pavy u ever have one of those burbs late night when u are sleeping? Feels like someone pouring acid down ur throat and BJ Penn trying to choke u out all at the same time?

[Willie Bee]

Well the wife swears by whatever she got prescribed as well. A bagel the morning after spicy food or alcohol (so pretty much every morning) did the trick for me.

Take the politicians, lawyers and marketing people out of the equation and we can have a great health care system. Leave any of those groups in and it will always suck.

[losturmarbles]

Why should healthcare and pharmaceuticals which are used by millions of sick people should have a profit margin of 10 billion dollars per company? Why shouldn't they have a 1 billion profit margin and the other 9 billion be used to lower drug costs. I have acid reflux and I don't understand why my bottle of Nexium costs $150 for 30 day supply. Can you tell me?

stop getting your information from unreferenced wiki articles pavy. and profit margin is in a %.

the pharmaceutical industry is fuked up, but not for any reason that you have mentioned.

get back to me when you find some sourced info and profit margin stats.

in 2018 you can buy a generic nexium for $4 at walmart, unless generic companies win in a challenge over the patent before then.
in the mean time, use a prilosec generic which is basically half nexium or find a different generic that works, or just cut back on the five guys burger and fries.

[pavyracer]

Pavy u ever have one of those burbs late night when u are sleeping? Feels like someone pouring acid down ur throat and BJ Penn trying to choke u out all at the same time?

Oh man don't start me on heartburn. I was so naive when I had it first I wouldn't go to the doctor and kept gagging in the middle of the night from the burn. Then after suffering for 2 years they put me on medication and I feel like I can eat whatever I want now.

[Thor4140]

Well the wife swears by whatever she got prescribed as well. A bagel the morning after spicy food or alcohol (so pretty much every morning) did the trick for me.

Take the politicians, lawyers and marketing people out of the equation and we can have a great health care system. Leave any of those groups in and it will always suck.

Willie u take those people out do u think all the sudden the Insurance companies are gonna become compassionate and lower the prices? Here thinks they will make even more money and pass it down to nobody.

[pavyracer]

stop getting your information from unreferenced wiki articles pavy. and profit margin is in a %.

the pharmaceutical industry is fuked up, but not for any reason that you have mentioned.

get back to me when you find some sourced info and profit margin stats.

in 2018 you can buy a generic nexium for $4 at walmart, unless generic companies win in a challenge over the patent before then.
in the mean time, use a prilosec generic which is basically half nexium or find a different generic that works, or just cut back on the five guys burger and fries.

But why should I cut into the profits of AstraZeneca in favor of Proctor & Gamble? Why can't I buy the drug I want at a reasonable price instead of buying generic from Walmart? The article I gave you has a summary of the profits each company makes every year. You can go to Wall Street Journal and read the market caps of these companies. A rule of thumb is that a company should have 10% profits on its market cap each year. So a 100 billion market cap company should have 10 billion dollars in profits every year as the article suggests.

[losturmarbles]

I always love hearing this crock of crap. You would think every time u went to the doctors the joint would be flooded with foreigners Gotta love the Becks of the world. They do have their following.

who is the Beck? does he have a devil's haircut?

my local hospital is always flooded with foreigners. the illegal kind. and yet none of them are turned away. even though 99% of the time, it is just for basic health needs. like a kid has a cold. so basically illegal aliens clog up the closest emergency facility by using it as their free primary care doctor. i honestly dont mind helping anyone that needs to see a doctor or needs health care. i just find it extremely insulting for someone to suggest that they have a right to my charity. and the government that promotes and enforces that ideal.

on a similar note, i commend walgreens, who i have heard in the past offering free health screenings, but have recently committed to offering Free Healthcare Services for Families that Suffer Job Loss and Have No Health Insurance

but actually nos was making reference to people who get "really get sick", major illnesses like cancer where they normally double their chances of survival by seeking treatment in the US vs seeking treatment in Canada.

[losturmarbles]

But why should I cut into the profits of AstraZeneca in favor of Proctor & Gamble? Why can't I buy the drug I want at a reasonable price instead of buying generic from Walmart? The article I gave you has a summary of the profits each company makes every year. You can go to Wall Street Journal and read the market caps of these companies. A rule of thumb is that a company should have 10% profits on its market cap each year. So a 100 billion market cap company should have 10 billion dollars in profits every year as the article suggests.

why should i cut into the profits of Coke whose 12pks are 2/$7 in favor of sams choice for 3/$5?
why can't i buy the soda i want at a price i want instead of buying sams choice.

the article you gave was a wiki site where any and everybody can make edits. link the article from wsj.

a rule of thumb? bring me some real stats and we'll talk.

[Jimmy Buffet]

Jimmy likes Mexican health care.

A margarita and a giant shaker of salt.

[Thor4140]

who is the Beck? does he have a devil's haircut?

my local hospital is always flooded with foreigners. the illegal kind. and yet none of them are turned away. even though 99% of the time, it is just for basic health needs. like a kid has a cold. so basically illegal aliens clog up the closest emergency facility by using it as their free primary care doctor. i honestly dont mind helping anyone that needs to see a doctor or needs health care. i just find it extremely insulting for someone to suggest that they have a right to my charity. and the government that promotes and enforces that ideal.

on a similar note, i commend walgreens, who i have heard in the past offering free health screenings, but have recently committed to offering Free Healthcare Services for Families that Suffer Job Loss and Have No Health Insurance

but actually nos was making reference to people who get "really get sick", major illnesses like cancer where they normally double their chances of survival by seeking treatment in the US vs seeking treatment in Canada.

Trust me those illegals are not coming over here cause we allegedly have the best health care in the world. Oh and neither are people in France and Germany or Canada. This is another neo-con talking point that is full of shit.

[losturmarbles]

trust you, ok.

we do have the best health care in the world. when it matters.

[reno cool]

Willie u take those people out do u think all the sudden the Insurance companies are gonna become compassionate and lower the prices? Here thinks they will make even more money and pass it down to nobody.

Yes, that's about right. The public has to depend on the goodwill of these pricks?

[Pokerjoe]

The 85%+ of Americans who currently have medical coverage are going to see a serious reduction in the quality of medical care they receive if Obama's plan becomes a reality.

What an unbelievable statement.

How do you know if you have health insurance? Until you get cancer or some other serious, costly condition, you DON'T know. Insurance is just a theory until it gets tested. THEN you stand a good chance of being rejected.

Health insurance companies in the US are like bookies who constantly reject winning parlays AFTER THE GAMES ARE FINISHED.

And you know who the only people are who DON'T have to worry about being rejected after the fact? People with government provided health insurance!

So don't tell me you're against goverment insurance, because that would mean not only that you're against Medicare, but also against insurance for the military and their families, because in the former case, you have government provided insurance, and for the military, actual, flat-out government provided health care.

[Pokerjoe]

trust you, ok.

we do have the best health care in the world. when it matters.

You have lost your marbles.

We have crap health care ESPECIALLY when it matters most. Get cancer, then get your insurance cancelled later because you didn't dot an i on your application. Or get cancer, conveniently get fired, lose your coverage, and be unable to find work again because ... you had cancer.

[Pokerjoe]

socialized? you mean on a federal level?

national defense is a role of government

police and fire protection are roles of government on a state/local level.

schools and libraries aren't roles of government, or shouldnt be. the private sector could do the job twice as good with half the cost.

same goes for health care.

Why? Why should national defense be socialized, but not health care?

Just as it makes more sense for all of us to pitch in and fund national defense, it makes sense for all of us to pitch in and fund health care.

Besides, ALL health insurance is socialist. All of it. It's a group of people getting together to mutually support each other in times of need. The whole idea of insurance is to have the many help the few.

But if you don't choke on your own hypocrisy (supporting government provided health care for the military, for example, because it WORKS, but condemning government provided health care for everyone else because you claim it WON'T work),

or the other hypocrisy of the health care deniers (being part of a socialist health insurance pool--and ALL insurance is essentially socialist--yet condeming national health insurance because it would be ... socialist),

or choke on the OTHER hypocrisy (you'll be in line to accept Medicare one day, which means, you'll gladly be accepting government provided health insurance)

or if you don't choke on your own naivete (believing you have insurance because you haven't been rejected for major expenses yet by profiteering companies, because you haven't had cancer yet)

or choke on your immorality (denying fellow human beings needed care because you're a cheap bastard)

or choke on the sheer stupidity of believing that government provided health insurance would have MORE bureaucracy than the current tangle of red tape we face,

if you don't choke on all that, choke on this:
You are sucking the balls of the health care companies.

In the entire history of the world, there has never been a single Christian against health care for all. Never. By definition.

[reno cool]

Alot of great points Joe.
Health insurance would be "socialist" if it wasn't for the ridiculous vig involved. (the comparison to bookmakers is quite accurate)

[Betz]

Robzilla,

How are you? Got a question for you and forgive me if someone already answered this, because I didn't read every single thread. On tv last week, I think the show was 20/20. They showed I think it was Canada's or England's health care system. And they kept showing flaws in the system, like if someone needed an operation or something like that they would have to wait for months on end ...

One women (I think she was from Canada, but not sure) even came to America to get a clogged artery fixed, and the doctor here said that if she kept waiting to get treated (even 2 more weeks) she wouldn't have made it.

Do you see or hear about stuff like this, or is it minimal?

[ijustwant2bpaid]

pavy, i have health net and my prescribed meds are over 700 bucks a month, explain that!! 150 bucks a month i wish...

[cankid]

I've lived both sides of the border and the most disturbing things I've seen is 2 couples I know who were hard working blue and white collar workers who has very comfortable retirments lost most of their savings to grave medical conditions..........Long story short BROKE due to high continual costs due to serious(ie...dialysis) conditions........SO you work 30-40+ yrs and lose everything in a year or two.......very sad, the system in Canada will support you and this cannot happen, I've seen it happen 1st hand in the states...

[ijustwant2bpaid]

happened to me, i broke my neck in a car accident, insurance puled some bs, exluded me, im now in the hole over 300k, buried.... fukk these insurance companies, i would love socialized medicine myself..i said it...