Patriots Success: Bill vs Brady. Time to put this to rest.

**vinnykal2323** · 01-21-19, 01:58 AM

its the chemistry between Brady and Belichick. I dont think either wins a super bowl without each other. they both are great with each other. At the end of the day, Brady is the GOAT and Belichick is the best coach in history.

**paco** · 01-21-19, 02:05 AM

Tom Brady made bellichick. He would be a sub par .400 coach without him

**rm18** · 01-21-19, 03:27 AM

Cassel went 11-5. Brady 10-7 the next year. Garappollo 2-0

**jjgold** · 01-21-19, 06:10 AM

It’s always been Brady everybody knows that he’s the greatest quarterback that ever lived easy to win with him

**JaimeMiro** · 01-21-19, 07:03 AM

You can't have one without the other, just doesn't work like that. You mention Bill's record before Brady but forget how invaluable that experience was and made him the coach he is today. Those two grew together and take either one away you prolly end up with a team like the Steelers. Not taking timeouts after that 2 minute warning to delay the inevitable TD was a masterclass most HC wouldn't have the balls to pull off

**jjgold** · 01-21-19, 07:38 AM

Brady wins with average players that is what makes this unreal

Pats know you cannot win with ghetto thugs and do not play them

**Goat Milk** · 01-21-19, 11:25 AM

Originally posted by rm18

Cassel went 11-5. Brady 10-7 the next year. Garappollo 2-0

When you start measuring Patriot success by a reg season record, that's when you know you lost the argument. We measure Patriot success by rings. You know how many appearances Brady has in the AFC championship game? We don't even care about that. Now you're sitting here boasting about Cassel winning 11 games and missing playoffs. LMAO.

**Goat Milk** · 01-21-19, 11:26 AM

Originally posted by JaimeMiro

You can't have one without the other, just doesn't work like that. You mention Bill's record before Brady but forget how invaluable that experience was and made him the coach he is today. Those two grew together and take either one away you prolly end up with a team like the Steelers. Not taking timeouts after that 2 minute warning to delay the inevitable TD was a masterclass most HC wouldn't have the balls to pull off

Dude, Brady would win multiple rings with Antonio Brown. Multiple. Maybe Brady wouldn't have 5 rings, but he'd have at least 3. To say Tom Brady wouldn't win any rings without Bellichick is foolish.

**MinnesotaFats** · 01-21-19, 11:39 AM

It's truly amazing what 2 underdogs with a chip on their shoulder coming from college days can do when they put their heads together...

Reminds me of my Twins baseball trams from 86-93...just a rag tag team of hustlers with 1 miniture, chubby HOF leader who just refused to lose when the ring was within his grasp and a no nonsense manager that dud every fundamental thing right with a few curveball decisions here and there... it's not a 20 year run but in 4 of 6 years they won a WS or 90+ games with really little overall talent, all ckean (no roids), but very good chemistry in an AL West that featured the perennial A's, Frank Thomas ChiSox, a 90 win/ yr KC squad. It is fun to watch scrappy guys in a winner take all game.

Brady, who doesn't have any physical attribute anymore that would qualify as top 15, just keeps getting 1st downs, conversions, drawing offsides, finding favorite matchups and feeding his undersized but overachieving WRs every game, finding ways to win when the ring is within his grasp and Bill just goes to work every day finding ways to not lose. I think if they played KC 10 times KC probably wins 7 of those games....but in a winner take all event, Brady!

Great pair

**JIBBBY** · 01-21-19, 11:53 AM

Brady is the best ever but that old fart is 41 now.. One good hit and he's done.. Aaron Donald gonna touch him up in the toilet bowl..

Father time and injuries catch up to every great aging athlete.. Nature of the beast.. 41 ain't no joke when you have those huge Gorilla's pouncing on you...

**t-wizzle** · 01-21-19, 11:55 AM

Both are great. Tom Brady is the greatest quarterback ever and the dropoff to whoever you want to say is #2 is so massive it’s insane.

**BigdaddyQH** · 01-21-19, 12:01 PM

One fails without the other. It is really that simple. A good example of someone trying to look like he knows what he is talking about, but really knows little.

**thechaoz** · 01-21-19, 12:33 PM

Originally posted by t-wizzle

Both are great. Tom Brady is the greatest quarterback ever and the dropoff to whoever you want to say is #2 is so massive it’s insane.

Go on youtube and watch some Montana videos. I think you'll change your mind on any "massive" drop off.

If Dee Ford doesn't jump off sides chiefs are in the superbowl. Pats always get gifts. Throwing it on the one with Marshawn, offsides by ford on a Pick, ATL not running the ball up 28-3 (99.8 % chance of winning if they run it down to 5 seconds everytime)

EDIT: Let me not be remiss in forgetting about the "tuck" rule. It's just unreal
They just hang around and people gift them at the stupidest times.

**BankrBIG** · 01-21-19, 12:35 PM

2-Minute drill always belongs to the QB, that's why we saw coach throw down his little computer at the end.

**JIBBBY** · 01-21-19, 12:38 PM

Originally posted by thechaoz

Go on youtube and watch some Montana videos. I think you'll change your mind on any "massive" drop off.

If Dee Ford doesn't jump off sides chiefs are in the superbowl. Pats always get gifts. Throwing it on the one with Marshawn, offsides by ford on a Pick, ATL not running the ball up 28-3 (99.8 % chance of winning if they run it down to 5 seconds everytime)

EDIT: Let me not be remiss in forgetting about the "tuck" rule. It's just unreal
They just hang around and people gift them at the stupidest times.

So many greats, Montana was awesome, Troy Aikman was awesome and accurate, Payton Manning was a machine, Aaron Rodgers is currently a giant stud.. Drew Brees very accurate and solid. List goes on and on..

**ikid2groove415** · 01-21-19, 12:46 PM

They both need each other - Brady would not be this successful on another team - Bill game plan was phenomenal yesterday- KC only touch the ball once in the first quarter - they didn’t let the fans get into the game till very late -

**jjgold** · 01-21-19, 12:47 PM

Brady would win anywhere

**ikid2groove415** · 01-21-19, 12:49 PM

Brady was not very good yesterday - till the end - could of easily throw for 3 INT

**ikid2groove415** · 01-21-19, 12:49 PM

Originally posted by jjgold

Brady would win anywhere

Lollollol ask Aaron Rodgers that

**blankoblanco** · 01-21-19, 12:59 PM

Brady is of course the key to success. No question.

But you can't underestimate how impressive it is what Belichick and co have done with the rest of the team year after year and getting the most out of role players and dudes who would be cut from other teams. As good as Brady is, all he can do is put the ball where it needs to be and hope the team takes care of the rest. I.e. i'd like to see what he does on the Jags when their wide receivers drop absolutely fking everything. FML. Anyway, the rest of the team matters a ton and the Pats consistently overachieve compared to what their roster should be able to do on paper

**sweethook** · 01-21-19, 01:02 PM

tom maybe without one ring if bill wasnt the coach , but bill's assa would be without a hand full of rings if not for tom . ... over

**MisterDog30** · 01-21-19, 01:03 PM

It's the combo of a Tom Brady offense and a Belicheck defense. Tom Brady elevates the offensive talent around him. The offensive talent is valued for their role and their ability to read defenses. Brady knows exactly where to go based on what the defense does. It's so difficult to defend. All the receiver has to do is be there. Plus, he sacrifices salary every year.

On the other side of the ball, Belicheck can maximize his defense better than anyone. He can turn a WR into CB if needed. He makes the ballsiest in-game adjustments. He can shutdown early success from a team in the game. No one is better at taking away your best weapon. Consistently, year after year, he churns out top ten defenses. Regardless of talent level.

As a GM, Bill Belicheck is arguably top five all time. Absolutely goes to the beat of his own drum. Consistently spends high on secondary and churns out cheap, effective OL and DL. Not afraid to trade "fan favorites" or "loyalty guys". A cold blooded mofo as a GM. In a league like the NFL, it's the only way to operate. There isn't one bad contract on the Patriots books right now.

It's a team that is run so differently than everyone else.

**t-wizzle** · 01-21-19, 01:05 PM

Originally posted by thechaoz

Go on youtube and watch some Montana videos. I think you'll change your mind on any "massive" drop off.

If Dee Ford doesn't jump off sides chiefs are in the superbowl. Pats always get gifts. Throwing it on the one with Marshawn, offsides by ford on a Pick, ATL not running the ball up 28-3 (99.8 % chance of winning if they run it down to 5 seconds everytime)

EDIT: Let me not be remiss in forgetting about the "tuck" rule. It's just unreal
They just hang around and people gift them at the stupidest times.

Lol. Yes, please enlighten me to Joe Montana. I’ve never heard of him. Thank you for sharing this, I’ll make sure I read up on him.

**ikid2groove415** · 01-21-19, 01:08 PM

Originally posted by blankoblanco

Brady is of course the key to success. No question.

But you can't underestimate how impressive it is what Belichick and co have done with the rest of the team year after year and getting the most out of role players and dudes who would be cut from other teams. As good as Brady is, all he can do is put the ball where it needs to be and hope the team takes care of the rest. I.e. i'd like to see what he does on the Jags when their wide receivers drop absolutely fking everything. FML. Anyway, the rest of the team matters a ton and the Pats consistently overachieve compared to what their roster should be able to do on paper

Would the rams be a playoff team without mcvay? Fck no !! Goff was clueless with fisher - coaching is the single most important thing in football along with QB- anyone that think Brady can have this success without Bill? Should stop watching football - they are a great combo together - loss 1 and the tremendous success isn’t there

**blankoblanco** · 01-21-19, 01:09 PM

Originally posted by thechaoz

If Dee Ford doesn't jump off sides chiefs are in the superbowl. Pats always get gifts. Throwing it on the one with Marshawn, offsides by ford on a Pick, ATL not running the ball up 28-3 (99.8 % chance of winning if they run it down to 5 seconds everytime)

EDIT: Let me not be remiss in forgetting about the "tuck" rule. It's just unreal
They just hang around and people gift them at the stupidest times.

This is fair. Sometimes people wanna ignore that it's possible to both be really great and really lucky at the same time. Doesn't have to be one or the other. Brady/Belichick/The Pats have been both. But yeah the amount of stuff that's gone their way in crucial moments is pretty insane

**blankoblanco** · 01-21-19, 01:13 PM

Originally posted by ikid2groove415

Would the rams be a playoff team without mcvay? Fck no !! Goff was clueless with fisher - coaching is the single most important thing in football along with QB- anyone that think Brady can have this success without Bill? Should stop watching football - they are a great combo together - loss 1 and the tremendous success isn’t there

Well I think the best way to evaluate it is: what would Belichick do with an average QB, and what would Brady do with an average coach? Because yeah, if the QB or coach is terrible then probably no SB

Replace Brady with an average QB and Belichick wins 0 super bowls. I'm confident of that. The QB difference is just too big. But replace Belichick with an average coach? I think Brady gets at LEAST 1, probably still multiple. So it's the combination that makes them a great all-time dynasty, but that's why I firmly believe Brady is the bigger part of the equation

**pavyracer** · 01-21-19, 01:15 PM

Why do Patriots always get the refs help in the AFC championship game? That roughing the QB without hitting the helmet at 3rd and 7 was the most stupid call I have ever seen.

**shocka1212** · 01-21-19, 01:16 PM

Originally posted by BigdaddyQH

One fails without the other. It is really that simple. A good example of someone trying to look like he knows what he is talking about, but really knows little.

Pretty sure I saw Bellichick win games with 3 different backups, 3 games in a row.....

this isn't even up for debate.. theres a goat alright... and it shouldn't be a debate. The king of taking what the other team gives him and making it work... Football is a game of Matchups and game planning and Bill is the hands down greatest to ever do it.

**shocka1212** · 01-21-19, 01:16 PM

Originally posted by pavyracer

Why do Patriots always get the refs help in the AFC championship game? That roughing the QB without hitting the helmet at 3rd and 7 was the most stupid call I have ever seen.

pretty egregious and conveniently came on a 3rd down in the 4th quarter when they were behind and couldn't stop KC for the life of them.

**pavyracer** · 01-21-19, 01:22 PM

Originally posted by shocka1212

pretty egregious and conveniently came on a 3rd down in the 4th quarter when they were behind and couldn't stop KC for the life of them.

For me that was the game. They also threw another flag later when Brady threw an interception to Gronk when the DL's hand was lined up 2 inches beyond the line of scrimmage which didn't affect the play.

**shocka1212** · 01-21-19, 01:27 PM

Originally posted by pavyracer

For me that was the game. They also threw another flag later when Brady threw an interception to Gronk when the DL's hand was lined up 2 inches beyond the line of scrimmage which didn't affect the play.

the second I saw that one I left to go get food because there was no point in watching no matter what happened even though the Brady fan boys in here are letting that diarrhea of the mouth flow yet once again... get some new material guys, always picking the easiest to die on is so lame.

**ikid2groove415** · 01-21-19, 01:32 PM

Originally posted by blankoblanco

Well I think the best way to evaluate it is: what would Belichick do with an average QB, and what would Brady do with an average coach? Because yeah, if the QB or coach is terrible then probably no SB

Replace Brady with an average QB and Belichick wins 0 super bowls. I'm confident of that. The QB difference is just too big. But replace Belichick with an average coach? I think Brady gets at LEAST 1, probably still multiple. So it's the combination that makes them a great all-time dynasty, but that's why I firmly believe Brady is the bigger part of the equation

How many super bowls does dan Morino have?

**jjgold** · 01-21-19, 01:34 PM

Morino not a 1/5 of what brady is

**nyplayer33** · 01-21-19, 01:51 PM

If there is a secret to bellichek, why did the offensive coordinator get fired by denver after one year head coaching. If there was a secret why isnt the offensive coordinator getting other teams to offer the him a current head coaching position.