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For JBEX, and all that follow this, yesterday was a fun day ! Both horses ran to their potential. BOTH horses RELAXED early. BOTH finished they way you want them to.
And man did KB do just that !
KB ! Nice to see you back !
So happy for this horse. Todd got it to work. Obviously this is how he needs to run to show his best. And from what I saw, his best is going to be real tough to beat.
Once he settled, him kicking when asked was the only question left. That was answered before the 3/8's pole.
Just keep it together early KB.
It's ALL there for the taking. ALL of it.Comment -
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I think KB path forward will obviously be the whitney @ saratoga on 8/3..think the decision on deterministic is a little less straightforward because of how well he did run on the dirt in his first 2 starts including breaking his maiden at saratoga @ 7f..maybe with the way he ran yesterday he would settle on the dirt now also and that opens up so many possibilities at saratoga..
a dirt stallion more valuable than a turf one
and I have a hunch the connections aren't giving up on that at this point..be interesting what transpires up at saratoga
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maybe this is being too generous and simplistic but I feel if world record had the outside post and broke sharply good chance he wins that raceComment -
and the whitney is probably the most prized g1 dirt race other than the bc classic so it would be a huge feather in cap to get that win ..just get the feeling ,as I think str does also, that get KB in a position to win and he's a real tough out .. I would like to see it happen at least 1 more time vs G1's to be totally convinced
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Somewhat agree here. The winner took full advantage of his post position and ran a great race. Don't want to detract from that. But.. World Record had the inside yet again ( he must feel that is the way all races run. Wait until HE gets the outside post). He broke slowly and there was no catching the winner. But as a consolation prize, World Record gained very valuable experience and at this point I feel he is wiser than most three start horses by a lot as compared to others. With all that went on in that race, World Record ran VERY well IMO. He is indeed a real nice young talent. Hopefully he gets a better draw next time out.Comment -
It's all in his head but no reason to think he can't IMO.
Just saw Todd is thinking about the Jockey Club Gold Cup race as well. That's a 1 1/4 mile race.
Because I am rooting ( and babying , Lol) with my opinions of KB, I personally like the 1 1/8th. I think it has a better chance at giving an honest pace than a 1 1/4 mile race. That's me just wanting to provide the perfect trip I guess.
As for an easier spot, if that question is asked, my opinion is that who he runs against is not as important as how he runs against the others. I'll take " just like the last race" all day no matter who is in there.Last edited by str; 07-01-24, 08:29 AM.Comment -
Seize the Grey Workout Report Seize the Grey turned in his final work this morning at Churchill Downs before shipping to Saratoga on Tuesday. He breezed in company with maiden Cowboy Code and was credited with five furlongs in 1:00 flat. Your son of Arrogate started some five lengths behind his workmate down the backstretch under Jaime Torres and always traveled the best. He loomed up with ease into the turn and bounded down the stretch under no asking.
The Lukas barn was pleased with the work and reported that Seize the Grey cooled out of it well. As long as he comes out of the work in good order, he will van to Saratoga on Tuesday as we prepare for our next start in either the G1 Haskell or G2 Jim Dandy.Comment -
one other thing on the pedigree of kingsbarns..
uncle mo (sire)
tapit (dam sire)
kingmambo (2nd dam)
sire and dam sire are current elite sires and speak for themselves..but to go back one generation and have kingmambo
is really something special..late 90's into the 2000's at his peak was a $300k stallion .. that much around 20 years ago !! 80 -90 % easy a turf sire although one notable dirt exception was lemon drop kid who won multiple grade 1 stakes on the dirt..kingmambo was extreme stamina and class as a sire with a large majority of his progeny winning big races in Europe
realize it's a ways down the road but with those 3 incredible male influences I think KB will be a major stallion and 10f in the bc classic should pose no problem for him on the basis of pedigree .. with uncle mo and kingmambo in the lines he will probably get some nice turf horses also
rooting for a nice finish to the year for him !Comment -
Totally agree JBEX.
His pedigree is outstanding. I knew about Kingmambo and plenty have not heard that much about him. Indeed, a very special pedigree.
He IS bred to run much further than a 1 1/8th. And I am sure he will as long as he stays within himself. I am thinking that the next race is so very important for him to duplicate his demeanor and breathing into that 1st turn and down the backside. I don't have a clue about what figure, number or whatever he ran from the various figure makers, but would be surprised if it wasn't his best yet. That last race was as complete a race for him as the La. Derby was as an early 3 yr. old. Difference is , he is a year older, stronger, and hopefully if that last race sticks, much smarter.
I don't feel as though the company he runs against matters. All that matters IMO is what I mentioned above. It is extremely difficult to get into the position he has . If that becomes the norm, it will be something to see.
Scary, in a good way, to think he could be just as good on the turf. I wouldn't doubt it at all. Man I hope what we saw sticks.Comment -
You probably already know where I am going with this. It's a shame when this happens, but it does. Not often , but it happened several times with me over the years.
With the price you paid for her, she has to have some value to someone as a broodmare. That is probably the place to go without ever seeing her IMO.
Those stats on success rates sound about right to me . I'm not sure if I ever saw one completely recover and be just fine. Breathing was always a concern if memory serves with those that went through that. Even the ones that were successful surgery's to be honest. And those very few that tried twice to do the tie back? I don't recall any of them that actually made it and were fine. Even so, if it would work, the stress and strain on the breathing for her would almost assuredly make her a horse that bleeds and probably more often then not, even if it was a minor amount. Kind of like a minor flu symptom instead of a major one. Either way, it sucks, and would most likely be somewhat repetitive.
It puts the horse through a lot and has to wear on her mental side as well as physical side. And to a lesser extent, same with the ownership and all involved. It's a tough spot Batt.
With all that said, I would obviously allow the experts that are dealing with this to make the final decision but if that was to prepare her to be a broodmare in the future, I think I would be good with that.
Hope that helps. Good luck with her. Please keep us posted.
well fudge..... we will see what happens..
Lady Blitz Update Following further discussions with Dr. Madison, Dr. Berk, and farm trainer Ciaran Dunne, we have opted to proceed with a second tie-back surgery on Lady Blitz. The procedure is scheduled for July 8th. Between all the options we outlined in our last update, we strongly felt it was between trying the tie-back again or retirement. There is no guarantee that this second surgery will hold, but if we want her to be able to perform as close to her maximum capabilities, all experts feel this is what needs to be done. Comment -
beyer was slow (100) but final time was within a second of the track record so it was obviously a very fast surface..strange that the two favorites who set a modest pace gave it up like they did .. would've felt more confident with a higher figure but possibly the soft pace relative to the glib track surface had something to do with it
if his next race is the gold cup (about 2 months away) that'll probably be his final prep for the classic .. he has a nice foundation and I can see the logic in giving him a breather with one vs two preps between now and the classic if that's what they decide to do..the timing with the gold cup is better for this than the whitney at saratogaComment -
That was a weird race from trying to figure out each horse. The fractions were not fast per say, and yet, the only horse that made any kind of a move in the race was Kingsbarns. Everyone behind him did nothing and the top three, just hung around.
I guess I can understand why any figures would be a bit quiet on the exciting side but from that standpoint, I see no horse that ran anywhere close to how KB did. If he earned a 100 all the others IMO would be low 90's at best. I know it doesn't work like that but taking away figures, who ran even somewhat as well as he did? I didn't see it.
I guess it can't take into consideration HOW a horse did what they did. But the bottom line was if we are talking about how fast they ran, everyone in the race was asked to run their best at some point but KB never really was, his best gear was never needed and that's why I am saying what I am about that performance. I mean, if that all they have, he is superior to that without being fully set down.
I don't know if that happens next time or what but it is hard for me to think that if that was the best they all had, that any of them can handle KB's relaxing and firing effort. If he falls into that mode, one we have been hoping for for months, and he has a big chance now to do just that, what changes?
I think in this case, the Beyer number is missing the "how it was done aspect" of just how dominate that effort really was. I guess that is up to the individual player to decipher.
Agree on the timing angle of the Gold Cup. Probably should look at it like a nice problem to have I guess.Comment -
so,for example,if he's able to get to the 6f mark in good stalking position within 2 secs fast or slow of what the pace should be it's possible he could take down anybody..I use the pace range to figure he might be a little vulnerable behind a very slow or fast pace..what you're saying is the type of horse I thought he might be all along..if he's comfortable and in the right spot you're going to have to be real good to beat him
have a hunch he could be a good 7f -1 turn mile horse also .. breaking his maiden first out and the long layoff win @ gulfstream (1 mile,7f respectively) kind of hint at that..whether he could beat or run well vs the best doing it is more questionable but I would love to see him try if they decide to run next year..possibly the turf also but I think that's less likelyComment -
Q. so,for example,if he's able to get to the 6f mark in good stalking position within 2 secs fast or slow of what the pace should be it's possible he could take down anybody..I use the pace range to figure he might be a little vulnerable behind a very slow or fast pace..what you're saying is the type of horse I thought he might be all along..if he's comfortable and in the right spot you're going to have to be real good to beat him
A. Two seconds is asking a lot. And, that is my hesitation to running back in the Gold Cup if the pace is a crawl. And it was just one race.
Nobody is more optimistic than me, and I am usually very reserved with optimism, lol. After that last race, did it all finally click? Did he just say, oh, now I get it? I don't know. But I am sure hopeful that that is what happened.
You know how I say the next race is always the most important one, but in this case, we really need to see him have that same mental awareness that he had last week. Don't know if it will happen or not but it was so nice to see and so easy for him to do against a decent field, that my optimism is as high as it gets.
Another thing I used to say and more than one writer or trainer looked at me sideways when I would say it is: "Sometimes, it is easier for a horse to win three in a row than it is two in a row". I heard a lot of feedback on that but I found it to be true enough to say it. And I don't actually know the math stats on that but it felt that way often enough to say it and get laughed at for it. Lol. Had a little Yogi in it I guess.
So yes, if he gets comfortable, someone is going to have to run awfully well to best him. That is still a big if, but the more we see it, the smaller that "if" will be.
Q. have a hunch he could be a good 7f -1 turn mile horse also .. breaking his maiden first out and the long layoff win @ gulfstream (1 mile,7f respectively) kind of hint at that..whether he could beat or run well vs the best doing it is more questionable but I would love to see him try if they decide to run next year..possibly the turf also but I think that's less likely
A. Well, we are so promoting this relax mode he needs, that shortening him up to 7/8ths or a mile might promote previous situations and cross him up. I would be concerned with that.
But because I have allowed myself to think way down the road assuming that his last race will be the new normal ( real big assumption), and already having him winning out this year and being Horse of the year ( Lol. no pressure), let's go even crazier and say that next early spring he tries the turf, loves it, the mental stays the same, and he wins the B.C. turf as a 5 year old. Two time horse of the year on two different surfaces. I know, but dreams are free and thankfully so or I would owe a boatload to somebody.
Fun stuff JBEX.Comment -
thought about it again and I agree with you on the turf vs the extended sprints..if he does win out this year I don't see why it'd be so bad to try the turf (assuming they are also of the opinion he'd like it)..it wouldn't take away from his dirt performances if it didn't work and show there's also a possibility he could produce a good turf horse if it did ..also what a versatile horse he is in general..giant's causeway comes to mind but the other way around..won like 5 or 6 grade 1's on the turf in Europe and then came here and battled tiznow to the wire in classic..by one of the all time great's storm cat who could get runners on either surface..
gc was a terrific sire for a long time and i believe was retired about 4-5 years ago
could get runners on either surfaceLast edited by JBEX; 07-04-24, 12:38 PM.Comment -
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found another interesting prospect str
baq R4 #6 headline numbers
america's day at the races 7/4 (YT) 1:42:00
realize it's easy to pick a first time starter who wins by > 10 lengths and others we've followed won more subtlely .. however other intangibles at play that I like
did it at a mile
coming off the pace
sire/dam sire combo
chad brownComment -
Those two options were really the only two that came to mind for me.
I could be wrong, and God knows I have been before, but in my experience, I never had one that was able to compete at close to his or her maximum capabilities. Mine were always limited to at least some extent. But this IS a higher class of animal so I'm not totally confident in my analysis in regards to her specifically.
All of mine struggled to at least some extent. Granted they were not worth nearly what was paid for this horse but capabilities are just that. Each individual has there own.
One thing I did not mention was the pure business of all this. This is NOT in ANY way saying anything except to point out the timing of all this. If they decided to breed her, she will simply waste time until the breeding season starts back up or at least the prep for it. The next 90 days or so she would do nothing. So to try all you can, why not give this a shot because of the timing involved? It is a low risk surgery and you might as well spend the time trying. That could be in that thought process as well. Probably is. It might sound insensitive, and maybe it is to a degree, but from the business angle of things, it is practical.
I did not feel comfortable mentioning that in the beginning but feel it is something that I should at least mention at this point. I do not know what others calling the shots are thinking but from purely a timing aspect as well as a financial one, which they do have a duty to try and protect for all investors, I can see why they would choose this route.
Hope that helps make sense of it and good luck with the procedure.Comment -
Appreciate the honest comments STR! and It makes total sense...Why not try it again(especially if it is a low risk surgery) because it will be awhile before breeding season and I believe for the most part the sales are over until the fall for "broodmares" prospects....
I totally understand the "business" side... I learned that from my cousin... if an opportunity presents itself.... you need to take a look. Kinda "strike while the iron is hot" I was on the outside looking in on a couple of those way back in the day.... cousin Pin hooked 2 horses for around 10 gave the client the option of either one... and haha I was involved in the other one( he broke his maiden first start 52 on the win uhm yeah made a little
) the one they took won a couple of graded stakes races even beating the great" Eliza" and had nice earnings at the time. The client wasn't a big player.... so it was a struggle ... to keep her or put her in a sale.... They decided to put her in a sale as a supplement and brought a decent price at the time.
Highlight of that event.... met Wayne Gretzy..... Tim Conway as the horse was being showed...( yeah back in the day)
It is interesting because with" My Race Horse "it's fun with me.... Not a lot of money invested but still fun to follow... with that being said It is interesting to see how fired up people get when there are thoughts of selling lol. When " straight no Chaser "won his Maryland race 2 years ago on Preakness day https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-rac...aryland-sprint... and blew the flipping socks off the rest of the field... there was alot of interest in the horse.... and maybe because of that probably saved him as he had issues passing a vets exam.... anyway heck from the business side.. "lets entertain any offers" from the "hey lets have fun side" are you crazy!! lol
okay rambled enoughComment -
All good stuff Batt. I never met Tim Conway but my buddies who were in Calif. back then said that when he came to the party, they literally started laughing before he even spoke. Guy was unbelievably funny so they said.Appreciate the honest comments STR! and It makes total sense...Why not try it again(especially if it is a low risk surgery) because it will be awhile before breeding season and I believe for the most part the sales are over until the fall for "broodmares" prospects....
I totally understand the "business" side... I learned that from my cousin... if an opportunity presents itself.... you need to take a look. Kinda "strike while the iron is hot" I was on the outside looking in on a couple of those way back in the day.... cousin Pin hooked 2 horses for around 10 gave the client the option of either one... and haha I was involved in the other one( he broke his maiden first start 52 on the win uhm yeah made a little) the one they took won a couple of graded stakes races even beating the great" Eliza" and had nice earnings at the time. The client wasn't a big player.... so it was a struggle ... to keep her or put her in a sale.... They decided to put her in a sale as a supplement and brought a decent price at the time.
Highlight of that event.... met Wayne Gretzy..... Tim Conway as the horse was being showed...( yeah back in the day)
It is interesting because with" My Race Horse "it's fun with me.... Not a lot of money invested but still fun to follow... with that being said It is interesting to see how fired up people get when there are thoughts of selling lol. When " straight no Chaser "won his Maryland race 2 years ago on Preakness day https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-rac...aryland-sprint... and blew the flipping socks off the rest of the field... there was alot of interest in the horse.... and maybe because of that probably saved him as he had issues passing a vets exam.... anyway heck from the business side.. "lets entertain any offers" from the "hey lets have fun side" are you crazy!! lol
okay rambled enough
I think you have pegged what owning a horse is all about. It's not the money, it's the hope, dream, participation, the people, the excitement and anticipation, all of that, and more. And as you have eluded to before and so have I, when I think way back to a place I was, I can still almost feel the breeze off the Monmouth shoreline, taste the milkshakes at Delaware Park, and on and on.
Pretty cool feeling Batt.
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I will check this out JBEX. Remind me if I don't talk about this one soon.
As for Giant's Causeway AND the turf dream for KB, I know I am waaay ahead of what one race should have shown. But the anticipation of that one race for a year now, has me way ahead of reasonable schedule. Lol.
It's just a dream but it's not crazy. Well maybe it is. It does a lot of moving parts to it and him winning his next 7-8 in a row.
I NEVER let that happen when I was in the job. I couldn't. But now I know what an owner feels like. Kind of feel bad now for not being more understanding when I would have one talk this stuff to me. Used to say stuff like " you stay in that moment and I'll stay in this one". Haha.
Thanks JBEX. More fun stuff to think about.Comment -
no problem str
definitely take a look at headline
numbers..will be interesting the direction he takes with her..probably an allowance but wondering if he might be considering the test stakes or coaching club american oaks..the latter probably a reach but she couldn't be any better bred to get 10f..as you've said in the past..nice problem to have
also will be interesting to see what happens if KB wins out (jcgc and bc classic)..have to think with his pedigree it'd be tempting to give the grass a shot
...few months off and sure there'd be a spot at gulfstream that would be a good fit .. add in he's 2 for 2 there for a little good karma..wouldn't be surprised at allLast edited by JBEX; 07-06-24, 10:02 AM.Comment -
Hey STR; When you get a chance if you can look over the BRIS PP's for 7/6 BAQ R5. You can access thru Linda Rice or Into Mischief. Your guy Dutrow has the #4 Gentlemen Joe running 1st off the claim. According to the BRIS they say suspicious drop in class. Can you educate me on what you see? THX in advance. and BTW Dutrow hitting at a 28% clip at BAQ. pretty darn good. Look forward to his SPA horses.Comment -
Thanks EZ.
He is speech delayed and autistic. So totally cool to be around. He has taught me so much with much more to come.
What a fascinating thing autism is. Short sentences at the most but knows Exactly what he is doing. Can read and write in Spanish and English. Incredible. Going in the 2nd grade because of the speech thing but doing
4 th grade stuff. It blows me away. Finally understand what a beautiful mind really is.
I stink on my phone so need the computer to get it rightComment -
think I could shed some light on this and have a hunch str might agree..winner's share is about $37k so even a 3rd and lose him get most of their money back..only running him $8k below the claiming price so to me not a big deal ..also it's a reclaim for the same price so trainer knows the horse
one other thing is open claimers at this level in ny are a salty bunch..this horse is 8yo and got to run where he can win ..wouldn't be surprised if they had this move in mind when they claimed himComment
