Value Is Crucial in Kentucky Derby Betting

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  • Psycho_sighT
    SBR Hustler
    • 04-04-10
    • 91

    #1
    Value Is Crucial in Kentucky Derby Betting
    There are a few more unknowns and a bit more uncertainty but betting the Kentucky Derby is just like betting any other horse race: You have to have value. So when the Run for the Roses takes its annual trip around the Churchill Downs oval, May 1, sophisticated horse race betting fans will be comparing a runner's odds of victory to his betting odds and looking for value.

    Acknowledging that predicting how a lightly raced 3-year-old will perform going a mile and a quarter for the first time before more than 100,000 screaming fans is anything more than an educated guess, let's look at the major contenders for the 136th running of the Kentucky Derby:

    Eskendereya: Followed up his 8 1/2-length win in the Fountain of Youth Stakes with a 9 3/4-length romp in the Wood Memorial, both mile and one-eighth races, stamping him as the clear favorite. He also has the tactical speed to get a good trip. But is he worth odds of around 3/2 in a 20-horse field in a race where favorites have won just 16 of the last 60 runnings? Tough call.

    Lookin At Lucky: Last year's 2-year-old champion was mugged in his final prep, the Santa Anita Derby, but still finished a willing third. He's trained by Bob Baffert, who has won three runnings of the Kentucky Derby. Baffert plans on removing the blinkers from Lookin At Lucky, who would be difficult to ignore at odds of 5/1 or higher.

    Sidney's Candy: A winner of both the San Felipe Stakes and Santa Anita Derby on the front end, there are questions whether the colt can rate or, failing that, if he'll still be around at the finish if the pace isn't totally to his liking. He'll also be moving from the synthetic track surfaces of Southern California to the dirt at Churchill Downs. Some horses handle the switch in surfaces but some don't. You probably wouldn't want to take less than 8/1.

    Endorsement: Won the Sunland Derby, March 28, finishing strongly while recording a Beyer Speed Figure of 101, second only to Eskendereya. Very lightly raced and this is a big step up but improvement is expected. Reminds one of the unheralded Mine That Bird. Intriguing at odds of 15/1 or more.

    Ice Box: Remember him? Will enter the Derby off a victory in the Florida Derby, March 20, meaning he'll be racing off a six-week layoff. But trainer Nick Zito has a pair of wins in the Kentucky Derby so it's tough to second guess his judgment. He'll need—and probably get—a fast pace to be a contender in Louisville but anything less than 15/1 isn't enough value.

    Line of David: Sent off at odds of 17/1 in the Arkansas Derby, April 10, Line of David held off Super Saver and Dublin to earn the upset. What makes the victory eye-opening is that it was Line of David's first stakes race and first race on dirt after winning two starts on the grass. He has a license to improve and will be out in front. He's a legitimate longshot at odds of 20/1 or better.

    Dublin: Those who bet Dublin will be doing so more on potential than performance. He's run well this spring (a second and two thirds) and has the pedigree to go the Derby distance, plus D. Wayne Lukas has trained a record-tying 13 winners of Triple Crown races. Beaten just two necks in the Arkansas Derby, Dublin closed well and would benefit from a fast pace in Louisville. Is the Derby the race where performance finally overtakes potential? You'd probably want at least 20/1 to find out.

    American Lion: Roared into contention with a front-stepping victory in the Illinois Derby, April 3. Sound familiar? War Emblem did the same thing before taking the Kentucky Derby on the front end in 2002. Improved once he went from synthetics to dirt but can he rate off what figures to be a lively pace at Churchill Downs? Longshot horse racing betting fans may want to take a chance at 25/1 or higher.

    Super Saver: Won at Churchill Downs as a 2-year-old and has improved in his two starts at 3, missing by a neck in the Arkansas Derby. Has a stalker profile, a running style often associated with the winner of the Kentucky Derby. He's another who would rate consideration at 25/1 or more.

    Remember, like any other race, the key to Kentucky Derby betting is value, finding a horse that can win at a good price.
  • wtt0315
    SBR Hall of Famer
    • 01-18-07
    • 8037

    #2
    most important part
    Comment
    • Brewers in 7
      SBR MVP
      • 01-20-10
      • 1363

      #3
      do you really think eskendereya will be 3-2 in the derby, gotta wait for the posts, but 3-1 is more like it i think.
      Comment
      • Sekrah
        SBR High Roller
        • 10-27-09
        • 240

        #4
        Definently neither 3/2 or 3-1 IMO.

        65% likely 2-1
        30% likely 5/2
        5% likely 3-1


        I predict 2.30-1
        Comment
        • BigdaddyQH
          SBR Posting Legend
          • 07-13-09
          • 19530

          #5
          I think 2-1 or 5-2 is very realistic. I also think that a wager on him at those odds has no value at all. To me, the post position is just as critical as anything else. If a front-runner like Sidney's Candy draws the rail, or way outside in positions 18, 19, or 20, that horse has just lost value. If it draw a post like 7, he has gained value. That is because post 7 is a much better post to break from if you want the lead. Now post positions are going to affect some horses a lot more than others. The trick is to figure out who will be affected the most, be it positively or negatively.
          Comment
          • Richkas
            SBR Posting Legend
            • 02-03-08
            • 19396

            #6
            eskendereya will be at least 3/1
            Comment
            • Sekrah
              SBR High Roller
              • 10-27-09
              • 240

              #7
              Originally posted by Richkas
              eskendereya will be at least 3/1

              You want to put your money where your mouth is? I'll take up to $1,000 that he doesn't go off at 3-1.
              Comment
              • jw
                SBR MVP
                • 10-25-09
                • 3999

                #8
                Value is critical in any type of betting - not just derby betting ... picking winners is the easy part - getting winners at a better value than the expected outcome is where the skill comes into play .... unfortunately in horse racing that is not possible unless you play with an exchange like betmaker/ehorsex or betfair .... this way you can set your odds and guarantee your price .. without worrying about the guy with $20k in his pocket that is going to wipe your your value with one fell swoop.

                Nothing worse than betting a 2-1 shot only to see it go off @ even money .... much better to bet an 1-1 money shot @ 2-1.




                2/1 to 5/2 are the current odds about Eskendereya on betfair. If I had to guess - i'd put a starting price of 5/2 right now on the horse.
                Last edited by jw; 04-19-10, 07:05 PM.
                Comment
                • BGboothA
                  SBR MVP
                  • 08-07-08
                  • 4202

                  #9
                  There is no way eskendereya goes off at 3-1 or higher! At this point he has to be sitting at 3/2 or even lower.
                  Comment
                  • DennisT
                    SBR MVP
                    • 03-11-09
                    • 2023

                    #10
                    Eskendarya goes off 5-2 a wager I would pass.My plays; 5.00 Exacta Box Eskendara, Looking at Lucky,Dublin. 2.00 Tri Box Same. Luck All.
                    Comment
                    • MdnSpecialist
                      SBR Sharp
                      • 12-08-09
                      • 356

                      #11
                      Originally posted by jw
                      Value is critical in any type of betting - not just derby betting ... picking winners is the easy part - getting winners at a better value than the expected outcome is where the skill comes into play .... unfortunately in horse racing that is not possible unless you play with an exchange like betmaker/ehorsex or betfair .... this way you can set your odds and guarantee your price .. without worrying about the guy with $20k in his pocket that is going to wipe your your value with one fell swoop.

                      Nothing worse than betting a 2-1 shot only to see it go off @ even money .... much better to bet an 1-1 money shot @ 2-1.




                      2/1 to 5/2 are the current odds about Eskendereya on betfair. If I had to guess - i'd put a starting price of 5/2 right now on the horse.
                      Do you make a habit of betting 2-1's? I sure don't..I can't remember the last time I bet a 2-1 to win..You can find value from 5-1 to 30-1 in horse racing. It will hardly ever be the best horse on paper..You have to anticipate improvement in a horse before the public actually sees it..Once you get good at predicting when a horse is going to break out with a good performance at a mid to high prices puts you one step ahead of the public..
                      Comment
                      • jw
                        SBR MVP
                        • 10-25-09
                        • 3999

                        #12
                        Originally posted by MdnSpecialist

                        Do you make a habit of betting 2-1's? I sure don't..I can't remember the last time I bet a 2-1 to win..You can find value from 5-1 to 30-1 in horse racing. It will hardly ever be the best horse on paper..You have to anticipate improvement in a horse before the public actually sees it..Once you get good at predicting when a horse is going to break out with a good performance at a mid to high prices puts you one step ahead of the public..
                        I make a habit of betting horses i think will win.

                        In the past couple of weeks I have taken odds between 1-5 and 20-1.
                        The low price horses I bet (between 1-5 and 2-1) win around 80% of the time.

                        I generally bet to win a fixed amount from each race when i bet with my own money. I do very well - thank you.



                        As an example of the odds I will take .. here is the last page of my SBR betting history .... & the win bets I placed ...


                        RAC
                        Racing ticket #8679
                        Apr-20 MNR R1 24.00 SBR WIN 9
                        24.00 / 0.00
                        12.00
                        WIN


                        RAC
                        Racing ticket #8683
                        Apr-20 MNR R2 27.00 SBR WIN 5
                        27.00 / 0.00
                        8.10
                        WIN


                        RAC
                        Racing ticket #8708
                        Apr-20 MNR R5 5.10 SBR WIN 1
                        5.10 / 0.00
                        9.18
                        WIN


                        RAC
                        Racing ticket #8711
                        Apr-20 MNR R5 10.00 SBR WIN 1
                        10.00 / 0.00
                        18.00
                        WIN


                        RAC
                        Racing ticket #8715
                        Apr-20 MNR R7 22.28 SBR WIN 8
                        22.28 / 0.00
                        28.96
                        WIN


                        RAC
                        Racing ticket #8716
                        Apr-20 MNR R8 21.25 SBR WIN 9
                        21.25 / 0.00
                        -21.25
                        LOSE


                        RAC
                        Racing ticket #8999
                        Apr-23 TAM R1 4.00 SBR WIN 6
                        4.00 / 0.00
                        2.00
                        WIN



                        RAC
                        Racing ticket #9007
                        Apr-23 TAM R2 5.00 SBR WIN 6
                        5.00 / 0.00
                        19.00
                        WIN


                        RAC
                        Racing ticket #9112
                        Apr-23 HOL R6 18.00 SBR WP 2
                        36.00 / 0.00
                        97.20
                        WIN


                        RAC
                        Racing ticket #9118
                        Apr-23 HOL R7 18.20 SBR WIN 5
                        18.20 / 0.00
                        27.30
                        WIN


                        RAC
                        Racing ticket #9120
                        Apr-23 HOL R8 14.75 SBR WP 9
                        29.50 / 0.00
                        120.95
                        WIN


                        RAC
                        Racing ticket #9150
                        Apr-24 GUL R2 10.45 SBR WIN 2
                        10.45 / 0.00
                        6.27
                        WIN


                        RAC
                        Racing ticket #9196
                        Apr-24 TUP R8 17.72 SBR WIN 6
                        17.72 / 0.00
                        10.63
                        WIN


                        RAC
                        Racing ticket #9199
                        Apr-24 TUP R9 10.00 SBR WIN 2
                        10.00 / 0.00
                        -10.00
                        LOSE


                        RAC
                        Racing ticket #9211
                        Apr-24 MNR R9 48.35 SBR WIN 1
                        48.35 / 0.00
                        29.01
                        WIN


                        RAC
                        Racing ticket #9231
                        Apr-25 CHU R1 47.36 SBR WIN 4
                        47.36 / 0.00
                        33.15
                        WIN


                        RAC
                        Racing ticket #9232
                        Apr-25 CRC R1 36.51 SBR WIN 2
                        36.51 / 0.00
                        7.30
                        WIN


                        RAC
                        Racing ticket #9240
                        Apr-25 AQU R3 13.81 SBR WIN 3
                        13.81 / 0.00
                        -13.81
                        LOSE

                        Obviously using an exchange I do MUCH better than the odds I would get from the tote.
                        Comment
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