When betting NHL favorites, bet the spread

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • EdV38
    SBR Sharp
    • 04-04-09
    • 266

    #1
    When betting NHL favorites, bet the spread
    Last NHL season I wasn't very successful despite having an over .500 record so I changed up my strategy for this year. My hypothesis - and I am sure there are plenty of people who have delved much deeper than myself into this that could add their comments here - is that the betting public far overestimates the likelihood that the likely thing will happen - ie the favourite will win in OT or by one goal in regulation. This will be reflected in the lines given and that there is significant value by always betting the -1.5 spread.

    Generally, there is a premium of about 75% on the spread over moneyline for heavy home favourites while that premium increases to about 85% for road favourites or weak home favourites. For instance Buffalo pays out 1.50 tommorrow but Buffalo -1.5 pays out at 2.60 for a 73% premium. San Jose pays out 1.83 but San Jose -1.5 pays out at 3.40 for an 86% premium.

    I'll use an 80% premium as the average. Using European standard (I just find it much easier than American style odds), I'll assume that the odds on the average favourite is 1.67 and the average odds on the spread is 3.00.

    So far my record on the year is 10-9 using the spread. Looking back at my 9 losses, two of those were 1 goal wins by the favourite while the rest outright losses so I would have been 12-7 had I bet the money line. Using the average returns above this is how I would have fared:

    Spread: 10*3-10=20 units for the wins less 9 for the losses = 11 units up

    Moneyline: 12*1.67-12= 8 units for the wins less 7 for the losses = 1 unit up

    Clearly the spread has been the superior play for me. Since this is only over 19 games its hardly high enough to be statistically significant but others who have more experience in this may be able to comment. At this point I won't recommend blindly betting all spreads on games because the one goal wins that counted as losses under the spread could just be unusually low at 2 of the 19 games, but if people have been betting moneyline on the favourites all year, they should go back and see how they would have fared using the spread by stripping out all 1 goal wins and counting them as losses and using the unit return formula I use above. If the return would have been superior, it may be time to adjust your strategy.

    As opposed to having statistically significant advantage what this strategy may be doing is getting me away from lousy probable bets. This means I'm not "kind of" sure that a favourite will probably win a game or get the extra point in the OT or SO, I'm very sure that favourite will win that game because they have to win by at least 2. Because I'm earning more each bet I win, I feel the need to make less bets to earn X amount of money and I am more selective in the bets I make.

    Its a little hard to go back and say you wouldn't have bet such and such game if you had to win by two, but say for instance you are 40-25 betting the favourite and are barely treading water. If you went 5-5 in games you would have avoided altogether betting using the spread for a 35-20 record, and 10 of those 35 wins were by one goal and would be losses under the spread for a record of 25-30, you are still way ahead of the game in cash despite the much worse record.
  • DennisGreen
    SBR Posting Legend
    • 11-27-08
    • 18369

    #2
    Good post. Everything you said makes sense. This is usually why I stick to totals, the juice on ML faves kills you in the long run. PL on faves seems to be a profitable thing. Keep a track of your record this way, I'm interested to see how you do this year. GL
    Comment
    • keyboarding
      SBR Hall of Famer
      • 07-30-09
      • 6817

      #3
      I used a similar idea for betting the RL in MLB. I've been meaning to go back through my records and apply the PL theory to favourites to see how I would do. I already use PL for road underdogs. Thanks for the reminder and good luck.
      Comment
      • floridagolfer
        SBR MVP
        • 12-19-08
        • 2757

        #4
        I would strongly disagree with this entire premise. The season is only a month old, so it doesn't take much effort to go back and do the research. Look at every favorite and note how often that team wins by two goals or more. I believe you'll lose your shirt betting this way and you'll lose it quickly.

        Baseball is a completely different animal. The number of runs and goals scored are night and day.
        Comment
        • LT Profits
          SBR Aristocracy
          • 10-27-06
          • 90963

          #5
          Or compare results in games that have posted totals of at least 6 with games that have totals of 5.5 or less. Your premise may have a better chance of working with the higher totals.
          Comment
          • LT Profits
            SBR Aristocracy
            • 10-27-06
            • 90963

            #6
            Originally posted by LT Profits
            Or compare results in games that have posted totals of at least 6 with games that have totals of 5.5 or less. Your premise may have a better chance of working with the higher totals.
            By the way, I am just thinking out loud here, I have not looked into it myself.
            Comment
            • Timmayy
              SBR Rookie
              • 11-02-09
              • 3

              #7
              Good post!
              Comment
              • keyboarding
                SBR Hall of Famer
                • 07-30-09
                • 6817

                #8
                Maybe this should only be used for -180+ ML favourites. Or some range set up.
                Comment
                • suicidekings
                  SBR Hall of Famer
                  • 03-23-09
                  • 9962

                  #9
                  This season, approximately 53.1% of games have ended by a margin of 2 or more goals. Of those games, 52.8% have been won by the favourite and 47.2% have been won by the dog, giving you:

                  Games won by 1 goal: 46.9%
                  Fave wins by 2+: 28.0%
                  Dog wins by 2+: 25.1%

                  You assumed an average line of +200 (3.00) for the PL -1.5, which would result in a breakeven win rate of approximately 33.3%. Blindly taking the Fave PL -1.5 would result in ~28%.

                  So, selecting PL -1.5 blindly would be a losing proposition. You would need to boost your expected win rate from 28% to 33.3% to succeed. I wouldn't attempt it until you've downloaded game data (including betting lines) from Covers . com or another resource, and crunched the numbers. You would need this season and last season at the bare minimum to be meaningful.

                  All of this number cruching is a lot of work, and I wish you'd done the work before posting your "system". You have strong opinions on how to bet, but you rarely back them up with research. Keep in mind that there are a lot of new bettors on here and you're not doing anyone any favours by posting unresearched and unproven theories as if you know what you're talking about.
                  Comment
                  • EXhoosier10
                    SBR MVP
                    • 07-06-09
                    • 3122

                    #10
                    You definitely can't bet the -1.5PL every game, but when capping a game, this could definitely work if you becoe me more selective in picking games
                    Comment
                    • EXhoosier10
                      SBR MVP
                      • 07-06-09
                      • 3122

                      #11
                      His system isn't bet all favs on the PL. Cap thegames yourself and bet pl if you are really certain you're on the right side
                      Comment
                      • keyboarding
                        SBR Hall of Famer
                        • 07-30-09
                        • 6817

                        #12
                        Originally posted by EXhoosier10
                        His system isn't bet all favs on the PL. Cap thegames yourself and bet pl if you are really certain you're on the right side
                        So his system is bet the winning team?
                        Comment
                        • Unitage
                          SBR High Roller
                          • 02-24-09
                          • 218

                          #13
                          Originally posted by suicidekings
                          This season, approximately 53.1% of games have ended by a margin of 2 or more goals. Of those games, 52.8% have been won by the favourite and 47.2% have been won by the dog, giving you:

                          Games won by 1 goal: 46.9%
                          Fave wins by 2+: 28.0%
                          Dog wins by 2+: 25.1%

                          You assumed an average line of +200 (3.00) for the PL -1.5, which would result in a breakeven win rate of approximately 33.3%. Blindly taking the Fave PL -1.5 would result in ~28%.

                          So, selecting PL -1.5 blindly would be a losing proposition. You would need to boost your expected win rate from 28% to 33.3% to succeed. I wouldn't attempt it until you've downloaded game data (including betting lines) from Covers . com or another resource, and crunched the numbers. You would need this season and last season at the bare minimum to be meaningful.

                          All of this number cruching is a lot of work, and I wish you'd done the work before posting your "system". You have strong opinions on how to bet, but you rarely back them up with research. Keep in mind that there are a lot of new bettors on here and you're not doing anyone any favours by posting unresearched and unproven theories as if you know what you're talking about.
                          excellent post, this is exactly what I wanted to reiterate.
                          I mean cmon doesnt even look like you've backtested anything.
                          The line is directly proportional to the probability.
                          You say you went 10-9, wow yet you mention absolutely no filters.
                          If you went 100-99 and had some sort of strict filters, instead of using subjective capping this "system" may have some merit. But this whole system is extremely misleading, please do more research and backtest for ATLEAST a few seasons before making any claims to profitability.
                          Comment
                          • EdV38
                            SBR Sharp
                            • 04-04-09
                            • 266

                            #14
                            Thanks to the commenters, both positive and negative.


                            Perhaps the title of my thread is a little misleading but I did say right in my post NOT to blindly bet the spread yet until I get some statistically significant data. I wouldn't feel bad if somebody comes into this thread, twists my words into some lock of a system and loses money on it. But they should at least review if they would have been better or worse off betting the games they chose to cap a slightly different way. Thanks to suicidekings for compiling some data that shows blindly betting the spread is likely a losing proposition.

                            EXhoosier said it best and its the point in my second last paragraph - betting the spread allowed me to become more selective. A prime example of this is Minnesota - I have not bet on any of their games this year. All 5 of their wins have been by one goal and so have 4 of their 9 losses. Last year they would be one of my top targets for bets because of their reliance on Backstrom to win and I tend to cap games starting with the goalie but a lot of their games could have gone either way this year and I'm sure I would have struggled with them and my "Minnesota will probably win" bets.

                            I have the spread on the Sharks, Panthers and Avs tonight. Let's see if they can make me look like an idiot and all win by one goal each! I also have Flames and Avs moneyline and total goals on the night to go over 34.5.
                            Comment
                            • keyboarding
                              SBR Hall of Famer
                              • 07-30-09
                              • 6817

                              #15
                              I took the spread on BUF tonight. Best of luck.
                              Comment
                              • TGoat
                                Restricted User
                                • 08-07-09
                                • 612

                                #16
                                Good post and a good idea. I agree with the poster (and appreciate the math work) who said you didn't present any detailed research, but so what? We can all do our own research. It's the idea that counts. I think this is a good one, and I've already done some checking with very positive results. In other words, how would this have done vis-a-vis just betting the spread--and the answer is much, much better.

                                [Admittidely there is a small sample size and it needs further study, but it's a good start.]

                                However, you have to be a good handicapper like you said and bet on teams you think will win by two or more goals. I've looked at 50 or 60 past games so far this season and comparing them to my model I would have done very well.

                                I also agree with your selections for tonight, but I would also throw in Buffalo (+160).


                                Originally posted by EdV38

                                I have the spread on the Sharks, Panthers and Avs tonight. Let's see if they can make me look like an idiot and all win by one goal each! I also have Flames and Avs moneyline and total goals on the night to go over 34.5.
                                Comment
                                • The General
                                  SBR Posting Legend
                                  • 08-10-05
                                  • 13279

                                  #17
                                  Glad you shared with the board, Sir.

                                  Best
                                  Comment
                                  • keyboarding
                                    SBR Hall of Famer
                                    • 07-30-09
                                    • 6817

                                    #18
                                    Actually, you know what makes a lot more sense than betting the PL? Betting only 60 minutes. If it gets to that point, you've lost the PL bet anyway. I'd be interested to see how many games involving big favourites go into overtime and they win (if they lose, it's a moot point anyway).
                                    Comment
                                    • jds07v
                                      SBR MVP
                                      • 10-19-09
                                      • 1335

                                      #19
                                      i was thinking the same thing on the regulation. seems that would be the way to go. i havent backtested it yet but it sounds good
                                      Comment
                                      • EdV38
                                        SBR Sharp
                                        • 04-04-09
                                        • 266

                                        #20
                                        Thanks for the continued comments.

                                        A little bit of luck in the last minute in Colorado and Dallas where the Flames totally did not deserve to win that game, at least the piece I watched means I went 4-2 today. I'm very happy with that considering the payout. Would have been 3-0 as opposed to 2-1 using the ML but the sweet juicy lines on Col and Fla make up for that. Congrats to those who played Buffalo for the easy win. I wasn't feeling that one @ 2.60. Got burned bad on totals tonight but I'm fine with that considering my alternative was betting over on a few of the games with a lot more cash on it, with all of them being under.

                                        Here's another one for you to consider. Given the stats suicideking has shown above, is playing the underdog's puckline (ie +1.5) the worst thing you can do? I see a few people using that strategy in Martingale systems, which I am also not a huge fan of. If you are confident in your bets and can maintain a .500 record betting on dogs, which is not exactly impossible given the amount of upsets we've seen (I'm 8-7 so far and 3-0 on even money bets) then the puckline will be a losing strategy.

                                        Keyboarding brings up a good point about regulation time bets and people may want to look into that strategy as well.
                                        Comment
                                        • DoctorX79
                                          SBR Wise Guy
                                          • 08-19-07
                                          • 562

                                          #21
                                          great post
                                          Comment
                                          • suicidekings
                                            SBR Hall of Famer
                                            • 03-23-09
                                            • 9962

                                            #22
                                            Originally posted by EdV38
                                            Here's another one for you to consider. Given the stats suicideking has shown above, is playing the underdog's puckline (ie +1.5) the worst thing you can do? I see a few people using that strategy in Martingale systems, which I am also not a huge fan of. If you are confident in your bets and can maintain a .500 record betting on dogs, which is not exactly impossible given the amount of upsets we've seen (I'm 8-7 so far and 3-0 on even money bets) then the puckline will be a losing strategy.
                                            Pretty much the same deal with the +1.5 PL. Average line around -245 with a corresponding breakeven winning percentage of 71%. Average win rate for the +1.5 is approx. 72% this season. The thing about the +1.5 that's always bothered me is that for the same investment, you could be playing the ML and -1.5 PL on a game.
                                            Comment
                                            • keyboarding
                                              SBR Hall of Famer
                                              • 07-30-09
                                              • 6817

                                              #23
                                              I only take a PL on underdogs when the underdog is really bad (NYI, TOR, etc). It's just not worth it otherwise. I'm also working on a system which has cashed in a lot of times already, but want to give it another month before I share it.
                                              Comment
                                              • EdV38
                                                SBR Sharp
                                                • 04-04-09
                                                • 266

                                                #24
                                                First two plays tonight: Montreal and Tampa

                                                Niittymaki's in the net tonight for Tampa and he's played well all year so there's no reason not to go with him. Boston's been hurting for goals since Savard's been out so I like Montreal's payout.
                                                Comment
                                                • TGoat
                                                  Restricted User
                                                  • 08-07-09
                                                  • 612

                                                  #25
                                                  I like Ottawa (+198) and LA (+262).
                                                  Comment
                                                  • EdV38
                                                    SBR Sharp
                                                    • 04-04-09
                                                    • 266

                                                    #26
                                                    The rest of my card tonight does not include any spreads, but a ton of upsets

                                                    Nas
                                                    Edm
                                                    Van
                                                    Pit, Pit/LA over 6
                                                    and Cal/Stl under 5.5

                                                    Nashville has Rinne going in net who has been hot against an Anaheim team that's played sloppy and inconsistent since they handed the Leafs their only win on a silver platter. I don't like Nashville, but at 2.50 payout, I like Nashville.

                                                    Edmonton's going up against Valiquette at home where they have played solid so far to date.

                                                    Vancouver is just going up against a team that sucks other than their goalie and Raycroft has looked more like a Bruin than a Leaf so far this year so I am willing to give Vancouver a shot as an underdog. I would love to play under in this game but I am not going to play under 5.5 @ 1.74. I wish I had alt lines available and could play under 4.5!

                                                    Pittsburgh is clearly the better team even without Malkin. Jon Quick is one of the most overrated "underrated goalies" I've seen. A lot of people seem to like him and think of him as a sleeper pick. I can understand that feeling because last year when my goalies went down to injury in my Fantasy pool he played very decently over the time I needed him as a replacement. Last year was a bad year for top goalies going down so I can imagine a lot of people used him and feel the same way. But he is not a top goalie. I think Pittsburgh will have their way against LA tonight but if they don't it'll likely be Fleury or the defense's fault so I got over on this game too.

                                                    St. Louis was going to be my spread pick for the night. Considering Kiprusoff's absence in net, the fact Calgary is playing back to back road games and that they looked terrible in the piece I saw them play last night, I was really leaning to St. Louis. But St. Louis is also playing like a bucnh of zombies lately, failing to get a goal in thier last 2. The real money here seems to be on the under and letting these two teams run off the clock.
                                                    Comment
                                                    • BustedPretext
                                                      SBR Rookie
                                                      • 10-03-09
                                                      • 47

                                                      #27
                                                      I too love PL on home favourites. Good read and good retort by Suicidekings. Obviously gotta cap the games but I agree that the benefit from the PL outweighs the risk of the favourite winning by 1. Especially in games with high scoring offenses that tend to win big or lose SU.
                                                      Comment
                                                      • InTheHole
                                                        SBR Posting Legend
                                                        • 04-28-08
                                                        • 15243

                                                        #28
                                                        Anybody have Open Net frequencies?
                                                        Comment
                                                        • shantystar
                                                          SBR Hall of Famer
                                                          • 11-13-05
                                                          • 7299

                                                          #29
                                                          you are not right here
                                                          Comment
                                                          • EdV38
                                                            SBR Sharp
                                                            • 04-04-09
                                                            • 266

                                                            #30
                                                            Nice play on the LA/PIT game for those who did it. I had that game completely wrong but that's what Totals are for! 4-4 last night which is decent given the Montreal payout.

                                                            Tonight's plays:

                                                            NJ -1.5
                                                            Vancouver ML
                                                            Comment
                                                            • Sam Odom
                                                              SBR Aristocracy
                                                              • 10-30-05
                                                              • 58063

                                                              #31
                                                              Regardless the way you bet on a side; spread, ML, PL(-1/2 or -1 2/2) or 3way it boils down to guessing capping the right/winning side. There is NO automatic blind betting system unless you do it from hindsight.
                                                              Comment
                                                              • durito
                                                                SBR Posting Legend
                                                                • 07-03-06
                                                                • 13173

                                                                #32
                                                                value is more often found in the +1.5
                                                                Comment
                                                                • Unitage
                                                                  SBR High Roller
                                                                  • 02-24-09
                                                                  • 218

                                                                  #33
                                                                  Originally posted by durito
                                                                  value is more often found in the +1.5
                                                                  this maybe true as PLs on big favs are often pounded by the public.
                                                                  Comment
                                                                  • Hybris
                                                                    SBR MVP
                                                                    • 07-22-09
                                                                    • 1023

                                                                    #34
                                                                    Originally posted by durito
                                                                    value is more often found in the +1.5
                                                                    I agree, just hate the emty net factor.
                                                                    Comment
                                                                    • EdV38
                                                                      SBR Sharp
                                                                      • 04-04-09
                                                                      • 266

                                                                      #35
                                                                      0-2 yesterday

                                                                      My plays for today:

                                                                      LA -1.5. Ellis is in net and LA honestly impressed me against Pit
                                                                      Phi -1.5 2x units. STL has been in a coma lately so I expect a good team like PHI to spank them
                                                                      NJ ML
                                                                      ATL ML
                                                                      Was -1.5
                                                                      NYR ML
                                                                      2x units on under 75.5 goals tonight. I have a slight lean towards under on the majority of the games so I figured i'd just bet the totals tonight.

                                                                      If I can go 4-3 tonight and at least 1-1 on my 2x plays I'll be quite happy.
                                                                      Comment
                                                                      SBR Contests
                                                                      Collapse
                                                                      Top-Rated US Sportsbooks
                                                                      Collapse
                                                                      Working...