Barnett Vs Cormier

[grumpy64]

uberheem would beat jds to bad he failed his drug test .

[Pinocchio]

And last week everyone was on Sandro. What's your point?

My point is that hype owns you. I don't see too many arguments in Cormier's favour. Satoshi Ishii is an olympian too, unlike Cormier also a gold medallist, and he failed miserably against Fedor, while being previously undefeated as well.

If Cormier had not beaten Silva, but ended up fighting in the final anyway, he'd be paying 10:1 right now - no one would even know who he is. If Cormier fights Silva again, you think the fight will pan out the same way? Don't get me wrong, Cormier is not bad, but he hasn't done enough in his short career nor has he faced anyone like Barnett before, to warrant too much confidence on my part that he could win.

Barnett has been around for more than 10 years, and he's only one year older than Cormier.
Barnett has fought the best of the best for the majority of his career. Cormier has not fought a single top 5 fighter yet. Cormier has never been in trouble. How does Cormier cope with adversity? How is his recovery? Does he have a chin? Big question marks. Barnett on the other hand has seen it all.
Barnett has beaten pretty much everyone he ever faced except Cro Cop, whom he would beat now in 10 seconds. Bad news for Cormier.
Barnett is a serial juicer, olympic style drug testing procedures would nail him for the 4th time without question. That's bad news for Cormier.
Barnett is top three if not higher skillwise of all heavyweights.

Lessons from recent history:
An undefeated hyped up UFC champ Cain Velasquez with only 9 fights defends his belt for the first time: lights out in the first round.

Hyped up UFC champ Brock Lesnar:
(ranked no.1 after a grand total of 5 fights) vs Carwin: turtle in round 1!
(ranked no.1) vs Cain: embarrassment, but I also saw... turtle.
(ranked no.3) vs Overeem: embarrassment and turtle!

Too much hype is no good.

[SATERSTYLE]

Who cares

Fedor emelianegro gon whoop ass

1017 brick squad

[brooks85]

Cain will win the rematch.

Im counting on him actually be healthy for it.

The moment cain stepped in the cage that night(before the fight actually started) it was obvious to me something was wrong with him.

[Thor4140]

Im counting on him actually be healthy for it.

The moment cain stepped in the cage that night(before the fight actually started) it was obvious to me something was wrong with him.

Healthy or not the punch he got hit with was sloppy by Dos Santos. Makes ya wonder if Cain is easy to hit when against a guy who can actually throw a punch.

[Digo]

My point is that hype owns you. I don't see too many arguments in Cormier's favour. Satoshi Ishii is an olympian too, unlike Cormier also a gold medallist, and he failed miserably against Fedor, while being previously undefeated as well.

If Cormier had not beaten Silva, but ended up fighting in the final anyway, he'd be paying 10:1 right now - no one would even know who he is. If Cormier fights Silva again, you think the fight will pan out the same way? Don't get me wrong, Cormier is not bad, but he hasn't done enough in his short career nor has he faced anyone like Barnett before, to warrant too much confidence on my part that he could win.

Barnett has been around for more than 10 years, and he's only one year older than Cormier.
Barnett has fought the best of the best for the majority of his career. Cormier has not fought a single top 5 fighter yet. Cormier has never been in trouble. How does Cormier cope with adversity? How is his recovery? Does he have a chin? Big question marks. Barnett on the other hand has seen it all.
Barnett has beaten pretty much everyone he ever faced except Cro Cop, whom he would beat now in 10 seconds. Bad news for Cormier.
Barnett is a serial juicer, olympic style drug testing procedures would nail him for the 4th time without question. That's bad news for Cormier.
Barnett is top three if not higher skillwise of all heavyweights.

Lessons from recent history:
An undefeated hyped up UFC champ Cain Velasquez with only 9 fights defends his belt for the first time: lights out in the first round.

Hyped up UFC champ Brock Lesnar:
(ranked no.1 after a grand total of 5 fights) vs Carwin: turtle in round 1!
(ranked no.1) vs Cain: embarrassment, but I also saw... turtle.
(ranked no.3) vs Overeem: embarrassment and turtle!

Too much hype is no good.

On the other hand, Barnett doesn't face a top 5-7 for a long time, in this GP he just fough "turtles" (like you say), this time his ground game probably will not help and he will have to get his victory in a stand up fighting. You said that he could beat Cro Cop in 10 seconds now, but maybe if he were fighting in the UFC for the last couple of years, facing tops, he could be in the CC's situation (fired and retired), who knows...

[Rubber Guard]

Comparing Ishii and Corimer as Olympians is a joke.

1 was a Judo Ace, a style that has never translated that well to MMA.

1 was a Wrestling Ace, a style that DOMINATES MMA.

[Vitooch]

I wouldn't necessarily say Judo doesn't translate well to MMA. Both Judo and wrestling are excellent bases. The key to one's success is how he or she develops his or her well-rounded skills as a mixed martial artist more so than what martial art you started out in.

Josh Kos has found more success than Demian Maia because he is the stronger, more well-rounded fighter who adapted to MMA better. On that same note, Ronda Rousey has achieved massive success in her MMA career as a judo practitioner while a collegiate wrestler like Shamar Bailey hasnt. It depends more on the fighter than the original martial arts base.

[Libert1ne]

I wouldn't necessarily say Judo doesn't translate well to MMA. Both Judo and wrestling are excellent bases. The key to one's success is how he or she develops his or her well-rounded skills as a mixed martial artist more so than what martial art you started out in.

Josh Kos has found more success than Demian Maia because he is the stronger, more well-rounded fighter who adapted to MMA better. On that same note, Ronda Rousey has achieved massive success in her MMA career as a judo practitioner while a collegiate wrestler like Shamar Bailey hasnt. It depends more on the fighter than the original martial arts base.

Whilst I agree that it is possible to transition from both martial arts into MMA, and that they key to success in MMA is to become well-rounded, I do not think judo and wrestling are equally good bases. Rousey can't be compared because her division is ridiculously weak. There have been countless champions who aren't very good at anything but top control and takedowns and have been collegiate wrestling champions. Wrestling is clearly a much better base to compete from.

Look at guys like Ben Askren... Completely one dimensional but dominant after only a few years competing. You just don't see judo guys do so well IMO.

[Vitooch]

I'm not saying that you're claim is incorrect, but may ******* out that there are alot more wrestling-based fighters than judo-based fighters. As much as we want to point out the Askrens or the Fitches, there still remains a large amount of wrestlers that have not found nearly as much success. Most of the successful wrestling-based mixed martial artists have developed a very well-rounded game...Henderson with his right hand, Hughes with his subs.

Both are good bases, and perhaps wrestling may be better, but I think this opinion may be swayed by the fact that we see way more wrestlers transitioning to MMA than judo fighters, so we cant but to only point out the wrestlers that do succeed.

[grumpy64]

My point is that hype owns you. I don't see too many arguments in Cormier's favour. Satoshi Ishii is an olympian too, unlike Cormier also a gold medallist, and he failed miserably against Fedor, while being previously undefeated as well.

If Cormier had not beaten Silva, but ended up fighting in the final anyway, he'd be paying 10:1 right now - no one would even know who he is. If Cormier fights Silva again, you think the fight will pan out the same way? Don't get me wrong, Cormier is not bad, but he hasn't done enough in his short career nor has he faced anyone like Barnett before, to warrant too much confidence on my part that he could win.

Barnett has been around for more than 10 years, and he's only one year older than Cormier.
Barnett has fought the best of the best for the majority of his career. Cormier has not fought a single top 5 fighter yet. Cormier has never been in trouble. How does Cormier cope with adversity? How is his recovery? Does he have a chin? Big question marks. Barnett on the other hand has seen it all.
Barnett has beaten pretty much everyone he ever faced except Cro Cop, whom he would beat now in 10 seconds. Bad news for Cormier.
Barnett is a serial juicer, olympic style drug testing procedures would nail him for the 4th time without question. That's bad news for Cormier.
Barnett is top three if not higher skillwise of all heavyweights.

Lessons from recent history:
An undefeated hyped up UFC champ Cain Velasquez with only 9 fights defends his belt for the first time: lights out in the first round.

Hyped up UFC champ Brock Lesnar:
(ranked no.1 after a grand total of 5 fights) vs Carwin: turtle in round 1!
(ranked no.1) vs Cain: embarrassment, but I also saw... turtle.
(ranked no.3) vs Overeem: embarrassment and turtle!

Too much hype is no good.

Ok with all due respect i viamently disagree with you. If anyone is over hyped it's Josh. Ever notice how he is constantly called one of the best in the world. Corr and big foot could fight 100 times and the results would be the same 90 of those fights. Why because corr can dumb him on his ass when ever he feels like it. On top corr is already a better striker then silva. Maybe not technically speaking but he hits hard and has faster hands and if who have those 2 traits you don't really need to throw the perfect punch. I agree with you 100 percent about the next big thing but i think it is silly to compare him and corr as corr is better at well everything but more importantly he is a serious mma fighter brock on the other hand was just a dude who said shucks i'll try my hand at mma. Now he's back where he can pretend that he knows how to fight.

[Rubber Guard]

I wouldn't necessarily say Judo doesn't translate well to MMA. Both Judo and wrestling are excellent bases. The key to one's success is how he or she develops his or her well-rounded skills as a mixed martial artist more so than what martial art you started out in.

Josh Kos has found more success than Demian Maia because he is the stronger, more well-rounded fighter who adapted to MMA better. On that same note, Ronda Rousey has achieved massive success in her MMA career as a judo practitioner while a collegiate wrestler like Shamar Bailey hasnt. It depends more on the fighter than the original martial arts base.

All of the high Judo players...where did they ever go in MMA? Who ruled with their Judo? Karo was solid back in the day....but not close to championship level. Akiyama is a skilled Judo player....where did that get him? 0-5 in my opinion in the UFC.

Wrestling let Brock Lesnar be the UFC Champ for a little while. A wrestler in Cain then beat him. Jon Jones has a wrestling base, one of the best wrestlers in the division. Sonnen has used wrestling to give Anderson the hardest fight of his UFC career. GSP was a TKD and Karate guy....then he became super wrestler and rules a division. Frankie Edgar and Ben Henderson both have a wrestling base. Cruz has a wrestling base and out wrestled Mighty Mouse.

So you can't sit and tell me Judo has translated. Olympian Judo guys haven't even found success. Of course people use Judo. Judo is a tool. But wrestling translates 100x better than Judo. Proof is there.

You make no sense in comparing Rhonda Rousey....an Olympian in Judo facing a watered down womens division. IT IS WOMEN. A high level BJJ belt is like purple for them. BEcause they are WOMEN. Of course an Olympian of any skillset could do great in a woman's division that is thin and full of part time fighters that don't get paid enough to train enough. Then you want to compare her to Shamar Bailey? That is a terrible comparison.

There are 1000 wresttlers out there, of course you can pick out some cans.

You can't find me very many Judo based fighters who have done great in MMA. While I can find you countless, Olympian, National Champ, Div 2 National Champ, JUCO Champs who have done great and actually held titles.

I'm not saying Judo doesn't work. But the top dogs don't do well in MMA compared to elite wrestlers. It is a simple fact.


Don't agree at all. Of course you ultimately have to be well-rounded to be elite. But what Judo based fighters end up being well-rounded and win titles? Name them.

Wrestling:
Brock Lesnar: Div 1 Champ. Pro Wrestler. Won the title and defended once even being 1-dimensional.
Jon Jones: Greco guy. Was transferring to big time D-1 for wrestling, but then started fighting.
Rashad Evans: Accomplished D-1 Wrestler, has 1 loss and is #2 in division.
Tito Ortiz
Chael Sonnen: Believe he was an Olympic Alternate. is #2 in Div gave Anderson toughest fight.
Dan Henderson: Greco Olympian. One of the best MMA fighters of all time.
GSP: Changed into one of the best wrestlers in MMA. Since then he has ruled a division.
Hughes: Wrestler...one of MMA's greatest champs.
Edgar/Bendo: Last 2 champs both have a strong wrestling base.


Today's contenders:


Corimer
Phil Davis
Ryan Bader
Chris Weidman (he did get on his grappling early tho. the combo is tough for people)
Ellenberger
Hendricks
Jim Miller

The whole flyweight division has wrestling based fighters. Besides the Japanese guy that lost badly.

[Rubber Guard]

I'm not saying that you're claim is incorrect, but may ******* out that there are alot more wrestling-based fighters than judo-based fighters. As much as we want to point out the Askrens or the Fitches, there still remains a large amount of wrestlers that have not found nearly as much success. Most of the successful wrestling-based mixed martial artists have developed a very well-rounded game...Henderson with his right hand, Hughes with his subs.

Both are good bases, and perhaps wrestling may be better, but I think this opinion may be swayed by the fact that we see way more wrestlers transitioning to MMA than judo fighters, so we cant but to only point out the wrestlers that do succeed.

It is true there are more wrestlers. But get out of here with the...."well a lot have failed" . There are thousands of them...of course some will fail. Some are not good fighters. Not anyone with a wrestling base will be a great fighter.


The proof in the fact that what Judo based guy has ever been elite? There are blackbelts in Judo...like Nog and Silva. But where do they use their Judo much? 1 is a striker and the other is a pure BJJ guy. What fighter firmly based in Judo has ever done great? Where you would say he is a Judoka?


There are guys you would call strikers like: Anderson, Shogun, Aldo, JDS.

There are elite guys who you would call wrestlers: Lesnar, Cain, Sonnen, Ellenberger. I would even say GSP. Sure he is great at many things, but he uses wrestling TDs and top control 95% of the time. He is a wrestler to me. A very well-rounded fighter who uses his wrestling because it is the best avenue to win.

Judo: Ronda Rousey (I love her) but she fights part time fighters who aren't skilled. She has trained since age 10 most likely....the girls she fights started training martial arts at maybe age 18?


I can't think of any more real successful Judo players.