UFC 217: Bisping vs. St-Pierre (November 04, 2017)

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  • Shagdogy
    SBR MVP
    • 06-16-10
    • 3564

    #176
    Originally posted by Hugo de Naranja
    His two career losses are by a R4 Sub to Ivan Musardo in Cage Warriors and a UD against Dustin Poirier at UFC 195. Not sure where Chael is coming from with this prediction. Maybe he believes that Vick’s power is much improved from his time spent in Thailand.
    I haven't really finished capping the fight but I'm coming around to Duffy. I believe his hands are much faster and his head movement is good enough to avoid Vick's strikes. If the fight hits the mat, it should be with Duffy on top, controlling position. Vick is good at threatening subs and standing up but that just puts him on the feet where im not sure he has an advantage. I think the chins are both good. Cardio should both be good. Power advantage maybe to Vick but usually that's when guys run into his long strikes trying to close the distance. If Duffy has trouble, I think he will see that early and close distance and get all the way inside. I'm starting to see Duffy as playable even straight at -160.
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    • Shagdogy
      SBR MVP
      • 06-16-10
      • 3564

      #177
      Cutelaba out. USADA.
      Comment
      • Hugo de Naranja
        SBR Posting Legend
        • 04-14-16
        • 14140

        #178
        Originally posted by Shagdogy
        Cutelaba out. USADA.
        Yeah penetrate. Did they say what it was?
        Comment
        • Hugo de Naranja
          SBR Posting Legend
          • 04-14-16
          • 14140

          #179
          Originally posted by Shagdogy
          Cutelaba out. USADA.
          Also I sent you a PM
          Comment
          • PaperTrail07
            SBR Posting Legend
            • 08-29-08
            • 20423

            #180
            dammit
            Originally posted by Hugo de Naranja
            Also I sent you a PM
            Comment
            • PaperTrail07
              SBR Posting Legend
              • 08-29-08
              • 20423

              #181
              I knew it was too good to be true LOL...always something
              Comment
              • UncleChael
                SBR MVP
                • 10-30-13
                • 3979

                #182
                Originally posted by Hugo de Naranja
                His two career losses are by a R4 Sub to Ivan Musardo in Cage Warriors and a UD against Dustin Poirier at UFC 195. Not sure where Chael is coming from with this prediction. Maybe he believes that Vick’s power is much improved from his time spent in Thailand.
                "I think you would be surprised" - Joe Rogan
                Comment
                • Hugo de Naranja
                  SBR Posting Legend
                  • 04-14-16
                  • 14140

                  #183
                  Originally posted by UncleChael
                  "I think you would be surprised" - Joe Rogan
                  We will find out soon my friend.
                  Comment
                  • TPowell
                    SBR Posting Legend
                    • 02-21-08
                    • 18842

                    #184
                    Vick has to finish this fight to win IMO. Duffy is so technical with his boxing and his ground game is also solid especially for a Euro. I think Vick by SUB is the only option. Drops him and hops on for a sub but VERY low percentage IMO
                    Comment
                    • Hugo de Naranja
                      SBR Posting Legend
                      • 04-14-16
                      • 14140

                      #185
                      Originally posted by TPowell
                      Vick has to finish this fight to win IMO. Duffy is so technical with his boxing and his ground game is also solid especially for a Euro. I think Vick by SUB is the only option. Drops him and hops on for a sub but VERY low percentage IMO
                      I think most of Vick's submissions come from him hurting opponents on the feet and getting them to shoot or opponents looking to wrestle offensively in general.
                      Comment
                      • TPowell
                        SBR Posting Legend
                        • 02-21-08
                        • 18842

                        #186
                        Originally posted by Hugo de Naranja
                        I think most of Vick's submissions come from him hurting opponents on the feet and getting them to shoot or opponents looking to wrestle offensively in general.
                        In 8 fights, Vick has landed ONE takedown with 4 attempts.
                        Comment
                        • Hugo de Naranja
                          SBR Posting Legend
                          • 04-14-16
                          • 14140

                          #187
                          Originally posted by TPowell
                          In 8 fights, Vick has landed ONE takedown with 4 attempts.
                          Yeah he's not an offensive wrestler at all. I'm saying his submissions come from opponents shooting on him.
                          Comment
                          • Kermit
                            BARRELED IN @ SBR!
                            • 09-27-10
                            • 32555

                            #188
                            After watching the weigh-ins, I would love to see Rose fukk Joanna up really bad.
                            Comment
                            • TPowell
                              SBR Posting Legend
                              • 02-21-08
                              • 18842

                              #189
                              Originally posted by Hugo de Naranja
                              Yeah he's not an offensive wrestler at all. I'm saying his submissions come from opponents shooting on him.
                              Yep and Duffy hasn't landed a takedown in his UFC career. Wow just looked and down to -140. This is a steal
                              Comment
                              • Hugo de Naranja
                                SBR Posting Legend
                                • 04-14-16
                                • 14140

                                #190
                                Originally posted by TPowell
                                Yep and Duffy hasn't landed a takedown in his UFC career. Wow just looked and down to -140. This is a steal
                                I think Vick is a great fighter but I favor Duffy in a pure kickboxing match against most anyone. Let's get it T!
                                Comment
                                • Kermit
                                  BARRELED IN @ SBR!
                                  • 09-27-10
                                  • 32555

                                  #191
                                  Best shop I've seen in awhile.

                                  Comment
                                  • Hugo de Naranja
                                    SBR Posting Legend
                                    • 04-14-16
                                    • 14140

                                    #192
                                    Originally posted by Kermit
                                    Best shop I've seen in awhile.

                                    Was this Kamura Obscura?
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                                    • TPowell
                                      SBR Posting Legend
                                      • 02-21-08
                                      • 18842

                                      #193
                                      The OVER on FGTD looks good too. I know their are only 11 fights but I could easily see 7+ fights going there. Outside of the Harris and Paulo fights, I think the rest will go the distance with Gall/Brown being the next biggest challenge. 7/11 pays over +400 so pretty solid payout and even 6/11 pays +150.

                                      I also like the UNDER 1.5 on the subs for the event. I think Gall is very likely to get one but where does the other come from? OSP choking out Anderson? Very doubtful. If OSP drops Anderson it'll be lights out. Zahabi/Ramos? Possible for Ramos I suppose and Oleinik has a shot at one as well but not a high probability. The Vick/Duffy fight will be a definite standup fight but maybe a knockdown and sub? If Gall doesn't sub Brown, this bet is an absolute lock for sure. I just can't see any way this should be getting over +150 on the under 1.5.
                                      Comment
                                      • turbozed
                                        SBR MVP
                                        • 10-15-08
                                        • 2435

                                        #194
                                        Originally posted by Shagdogy
                                        I haven't really finished capping the fight but I'm coming around to Duffy. I believe his hands are much faster and his head movement is good enough to avoid Vick's strikes. If the fight hits the mat, it should be with Duffy on top, controlling position. Vick is good at threatening subs and standing up but that just puts him on the feet where im not sure he has an advantage. I think the chins are both good. Cardio should both be good. Power advantage maybe to Vick but usually that's when guys run into his long strikes trying to close the distance. If Duffy has trouble, I think he will see that early and close distance and get all the way inside. I'm starting to see Duffy as playable even straight at -160.
                                        I ended up siding with Duffy too based on just boxing technique and hand speed. -200 was way too wide for my liking though and the price was right around -150. Vick actually probably has more ways to win against a wider variety of opponents. But Vick's attempted like 1 takedown in his UFC career and his sub game is predicated on locking up front chokes against people trying to shoot on him. Both guys have a boxing base and prefer to use it and in that type of fight Duffy has the advantage.

                                        Vick has shown a bit of improvement in defense and in his clinch game, but some of his fundamental problems (slow to retract his jab, naked kick techniques, being there to hit after throwing, etc.) are still there for Duffy to exploit.

                                        Pretty close fight and will be a good one so probably will be a minor play on Duffy.
                                        Comment
                                        • turbozed
                                          SBR MVP
                                          • 10-15-08
                                          • 2435

                                          #195
                                          Originally posted by Hugo de Naranja
                                          They were pretty excited about this fight. I don't have a great read on this fight and am considering no betting it.
                                          Did you ever get around to taking a deeper look at this fight Hugo?
                                          Comment
                                          • Shagdogy
                                            SBR MVP
                                            • 06-16-10
                                            • 3564

                                            #196
                                            Originally posted by turbozed
                                            I ended up siding with Duffy too based on just boxing technique and hand speed. -200 was way too wide for my liking though and the price was right around -150. Vick actually probably has more ways to win against a wider variety of opponents. But Vick's attempted like 1 takedown in his UFC career and his sub game is predicated on locking up front chokes against people trying to shoot on him. Both guys have a boxing base and prefer to use it and in that type of fight Duffy has the advantage.

                                            Vick has shown a bit of improvement in defense and in his clinch game, but some of his fundamental problems (slow to retract his jab, naked kick techniques, being there to hit after throwing, etc.) are still there for Duffy to exploit.

                                            Pretty close fight and will be a good one so probably will be a minor play on Duffy.
                                            Yeah I took Duffy. I think he has better hand speed, chin, head movement, top game, and camp. A lot of advantages to Duffy. His edges might not be super wide but I think he has a lot of them.
                                            Comment
                                            • turbozed
                                              SBR MVP
                                              • 10-15-08
                                              • 2435

                                              #197
                                              I got around to watching Ramos and Zahabi tape (both debuts and a few of their regional fights). Makes sense that Ramos would be the favorite here but I don't think there's much value at -200. I see him mostly winning by submission and probably would've taken a shot at +280, but it's down to like +200 now so I'll hold off.

                                              Ramos's striking is a big issue. It looks good aesthetically. He tries to draw out strikes from his opponent to counter. But his distance management sucks. A lot of his strikes come nowhere close to hitting his opponent. He landed one really great counter against Tanaka but towards the end he was getting outlanded and outstruck by Tanaka, which is a bad sign. Other issues are his lack of volume and that his pocket defense is not very good. He slowed down a lot in the 3rd round of his UFC debut so his cardio might be a problem too.
                                              Comment
                                              • JAKEPEAVY21
                                                BARRELED IN @ SBR!
                                                • 03-11-11
                                                • 29268

                                                #198
                                                fired up for this great card!!

                                                great sports day with full college football slate as well
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                                                • Shagdogy
                                                  SBR MVP
                                                  • 06-16-10
                                                  • 3564

                                                  #199
                                                  Originally posted by turbozed
                                                  I got around to watching Ramos and Zahabi tape (both debuts and a few of their regional fights). Makes sense that Ramos would be the favorite here but I don't think there's much value at -200. I see him mostly winning by submission and probably would've taken a shot at +280, but it's down to like +200 now so I'll hold off.

                                                  Ramos's striking is a big issue. It looks good aesthetically. He tries to draw out strikes from his opponent to counter. But his distance management sucks. A lot of his strikes come nowhere close to hitting his opponent. He landed one really great counter against Tanaka but towards the end he was getting outlanded and outstruck by Tanaka, which is a bad sign. Other issues are his lack of volume and that his pocket defense is not very good. He slowed down a lot in the 3rd round of his UFC debut so his cardio might be a problem too.
                                                  I think the striking will be interesting in this one. Both guys like to move forward topressure their opponents but neither one likes to throw first. I think they might look a little bit like opposing magnets. Every time they get close to each other they might just both back off without anything happening. Zahabi had an incredibly willing opponent in Vieira who had no problem being first in the striking and he still threw incredibly low volume to the point that I feel he was 20 seconds away from losing a decision (with impartial non Canadian judges). He is accurate with his counters so if he finds a bit more aggression then than could swing this fight. I also particularly didn't like how often Vieira got in deep on TD attempts. If Zahabi starts dictating the striking it will be interesting to see if Ramos can go to takedowns and switch the fight up. He didn't stand with Khash so he may look for more ground in this fight.
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                                                  • Demonata
                                                    BARRELED IN @ SBR!
                                                    • 07-12-11
                                                    • 25829

                                                    #200
                                                    Im so happy i finally get to watch gsp again tonight. . I might not even drink... Yeah right Im going to get drunk as hell and probably piss people off and myself off then feel bad and apologize tomorrow
                                                    Comment
                                                    • JAKEPEAVY21
                                                      BARRELED IN @ SBR!
                                                      • 03-11-11
                                                      • 29268

                                                      #201
                                                      Originally posted by Demonata
                                                      Im so happy i finally get to watch gsp again tonight. . I might not even drink... Yeah right Im going to get drunk as hell and probably piss people off and myself off then feel bad and apologize tomorrow
                                                      I'd max bet that.
                                                      Comment
                                                      • turbozed
                                                        SBR MVP
                                                        • 10-15-08
                                                        • 2435

                                                        #202
                                                        Originally posted by Shagdogy
                                                        I think the striking will be interesting in this one. Both guys like to move forward topressure their opponents but neither one likes to throw first. I think they might look a little bit like opposing magnets. Every time they get close to each other they might just both back off without anything happening. Zahabi had an incredibly willing opponent in Vieira who had no problem being first in the striking and he still threw incredibly low volume to the point that I feel he was 20 seconds away from losing a decision (with impartial non Canadian judges). He is accurate with his counters so if he finds a bit more aggression then than could swing this fight. I also particularly didn't like how often Vieira got in deep on TD attempts. If Zahabi starts dictating the striking it will be interesting to see if Ramos can go to takedowns and switch the fight up. He didn't stand with Khash so he may look for more ground in this fight.
                                                        There really wasn't a mystery as to why Zahabi didn't throw much early in the fight though. You had his brother in the corner basically shouting at him to keep pressuring Vieira and making him throw so that he would gas out. It was part of their gameplan to be low volume but be just within range to tempt Vieira to throw those loopy hooks. That doesn't explain why Zahabi's volume was so low later in the fight, but maybe they expected Vieira to be more gassed and less dangeorus (their plan didnt work so well in other words).

                                                        As far as Ramos' gameplan against Tanaka, that was a bit more baffling. I guess they thought Tanaka's striking was bad enough that Ramos could win without using his grappling techniques. Tanaka is pretty strong on the ground, and seems unchokeable (see the fight before last where Cruz was telling us how Tanaka was going to go out any second and a whole minute goes by with Tanaka in a tight choke). Ramos was able to drop Tanaka with a counter, so it did work out to an extent. Tanaka won that third round clearly being fresher and more active. Now imagine if the first two rounds was a ton of scrambling and grinding grappling. Ramos might have been so out of gas that he might have been finishable.

                                                        I don't think Ramos is going to be wary of engaging Zahabi on the ground at all, and I don't think Ramos thinks he's a better striker than Zahabi (I sure hope he doesn't at least), so I think we're going to see him do what he did in his regional fights, which is strike for 30 seconds until jumping in with a 1-2 then level change TD attempt. If he struggles to get them, then Zahabi might be a good live bet. But there's a good chance Ramos is able to lock in a sub after the first successful TD in the 1st.
                                                        Comment
                                                        • JIBBBY
                                                          SBR Aristocracy
                                                          • 12-10-09
                                                          • 83686

                                                          #203
                                                          Originally posted by Demonata
                                                          Im so happy i finally get to watch gsp again tonight. . I might not even drink... Yeah right Im going to get drunk as hell and probably piss people off and myself off then feel bad and apologize tomorrow
                                                          Comment
                                                          • JIBBBY
                                                            SBR Aristocracy
                                                            • 12-10-09
                                                            • 83686

                                                            #204
                                                            Originally posted by turbozed
                                                            There really wasn't a mystery as to why Zahabi didn't throw much early in the fight though. You had his brother in the corner basically shouting at him to keep pressuring Vieira and making him throw so that he would gas out. It was part of their gameplan to be low volume but be just within range to tempt Vieira to throw those loopy hooks. That doesn't explain why Zahabi's volume was so low later in the fight, but maybe they expected Vieira to be more gassed and less dangeorus (their plan didnt work so well in other words).

                                                            As far as Ramos' gameplan against Tanaka, that was a bit more baffling. I guess they thought Tanaka's striking was bad enough that Ramos could win without using his grappling techniques. Tanaka is pretty strong on the ground, and seems unchokeable (see the fight before last where Cruz was telling us how Tanaka was going to go out any second and a whole minute goes by with Tanaka in a tight choke). Ramos was able to drop Tanaka with a counter, so it did work out to an extent. Tanaka won that third round clearly being fresher and more active. Now imagine if the first two rounds was a ton of scrambling and grinding grappling. Ramos might have been so out of gas that he might have been finishable.

                                                            I don't think Ramos is going to be wary of engaging Zahabi on the ground at all, and I don't think Ramos thinks he's a better striker than Zahabi (I sure hope he doesn't at least), so I think we're going to see him do what he did in his regional fights, which is strike for 30 seconds until jumping in with a 1-2 then level change TD attempt. If he struggles to get them, then Zahabi might be a good live bet. But there's a good chance Ramos is able to lock in a sub after the first successful TD in the 1st.
                                                            There is no live betting on the books with the early prelims...

                                                            UFC Fight Pass Early Prelims



                                                            Aiemann
                                                            Zahabi
                                                            vs
                                                            Ricardo
                                                            Ramos

                                                            CANADA
                                                            Country
                                                            BRAZIL

                                                            7-0-0
                                                            Record
                                                            10-1-0

                                                            43%
                                                            KO/TKO
                                                            20%

                                                            43%
                                                            SUB
                                                            60%

                                                            14%
                                                            DEC
                                                            20%

                                                            68 in
                                                            Height
                                                            69 in

                                                            135 lbs
                                                            Weight
                                                            135 lbs

                                                            69 in
                                                            Reach
                                                            72 in

                                                            38 in
                                                            Leg Reach
                                                            40 in



                                                            Ramos by sub probably... Bit tricky as this one might go the distance too and blow up finishing props for either fighter... I don't like betting on this fight that much..
                                                            Comment
                                                            • Demonata
                                                              BARRELED IN @ SBR!
                                                              • 07-12-11
                                                              • 25829

                                                              #205
                                                              My first bet for the card

                                                              <a href="https://ibb.co/gYqSSb"><img src="https://preview.ibb.co/mZm1nb/Screenshot_2017_11_04_10_54_27.png" alt="Screenshot_2017_11_04_10_54_27" border="0"></a><br /><a target='_blank' href='https://imgbb.com/'>i want to upload my photo</a><br />
                                                              Last edited by Demonata; 11-04-17, 12:05 PM.
                                                              Comment
                                                              • Hugo de Naranja
                                                                SBR Posting Legend
                                                                • 04-14-16
                                                                • 14140

                                                                #206
                                                                Originally posted by turbozed
                                                                Did you ever get around to taking a deeper look at this fight Hugo?
                                                                Honestly not really. Mostly focused my efforts on the other fights.
                                                                Comment
                                                                • Hugo de Naranja
                                                                  SBR Posting Legend
                                                                  • 04-14-16
                                                                  • 14140

                                                                  #207
                                                                  Originally posted by Shagdogy
                                                                  Yeah I took Duffy. I think he has better hand speed, chin, head movement, top game, and camp. A lot of advantages to Duffy. His edges might not be super wide but I think he has a lot of them.
                                                                  This was a fun one to discuss last night
                                                                  Comment
                                                                  • Hugo de Naranja
                                                                    SBR Posting Legend
                                                                    • 04-14-16
                                                                    • 14140

                                                                    #208
                                                                    Originally posted by turbozed
                                                                    I got around to watching Ramos and Zahabi tape (both debuts and a few of their regional fights). Makes sense that Ramos would be the favorite here but I don't think there's much value at -200. I see him mostly winning by submission and probably would've taken a shot at +280, but it's down to like +200 now so I'll hold off.

                                                                    Ramos's striking is a big issue. It looks good aesthetically. He tries to draw out strikes from his opponent to counter. But his distance management sucks. A lot of his strikes come nowhere close to hitting his opponent. He landed one really great counter against Tanaka but towards the end he was getting outlanded and outstruck by Tanaka, which is a bad sign. Other issues are his lack of volume and that his pocket defense is not very good. He slowed down a lot in the 3rd round of his UFC debut so his cardio might be a problem too.
                                                                    1u on Ramos Submission at (+280) is my only action on this one.
                                                                    Comment
                                                                    • bjpenn85
                                                                      SBR Hall of Famer
                                                                      • 02-17-11
                                                                      • 5059

                                                                      #209
                                                                      Everyone have seen this right? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlxV7j5Ye24

                                                                      He continues where he left of from the prefight interview.
                                                                      Comment
                                                                      • Hugo de Naranja
                                                                        SBR Posting Legend
                                                                        • 04-14-16
                                                                        • 14140

                                                                        #210
                                                                        Originally posted by bjpenn85
                                                                        Everyone have seen this right? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlxV7j5Ye24

                                                                        He continues where he left of from the prefight interview.
                                                                        Not sure what this is
                                                                        Comment
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