Reds/DBacks Wild Card????

**Razz** · 08-03-06, 10:30 AM

I think, with the present rosters of the teams, the only team in the NL that can give the Mets trouble is Atlanta.

**Bulldog** · 08-03-06, 10:31 AM

I get what you're saying E, its just hard to take those teams seriously. We are all waiting for the Astros and the Braves to make a run aren't we???

**Bulldog** · 08-03-06, 10:33 AM

Originally posted by Razz

I think, with the present rosters of the teams, the only team in the NL that can give the Mets trouble is Atlanta.

Well they didnt give them much trouble last weekend. As much as I would love to agree I have to pick St Louis. If they get Mulder back they have a better rotation than the Mets and a nice lineup...

**EBone** · 08-03-06, 10:38 AM

My feeling is that the Dodgers and Braves are the two teams that can make a run.

As far as the Astros are concerned, I still think they don't have enough in the tank. They've won two games in SD and are certainly within striking distance. It sure would help them if Pettitte can start throwing gems like Tuesday night. I just don't like their everyday lineup. It seems too weak to me. However, I believe I thought the same thing last year.

Flip a stinkin' coin. I just think the Reds and DBacks, the two leaders at the this time, are going to falter.

E

**Razz** · 08-03-06, 10:39 AM

D'oh, I forgot about the Dodgers. Yep, they are more than capable of winning a series with the Mets.

**Razz** · 08-03-06, 10:39 AM

Originally posted by Bulldog

Well they didnt give them much trouble last weekend. As much as I would love to agree I have to pick St Louis. If they get Mulder back they have a better rotation than the Mets and a nice lineup...

If they get Mulder back, their rotation gets worse.

**EBone** · 08-03-06, 10:40 AM

Originally posted by Bulldog

If they get Mulder back they have a better rotation than the Mets and a nice lineup...

Bulldog, the Cards need 2003 vintage Mulder back. I think Cardinal Mulder doesn't help things at all. In my eyes, Cardinal Mulder is just a step better than the Weave.

E

**EBone** · 08-03-06, 10:41 AM

Originally posted by Razz

If they get Mulder back, their rotation gets worse.

Ditto.

E

**Bulldog** · 08-03-06, 10:48 AM

So... Carpenter, Mulder, Marquis, Reyes. Throw Suppan in the bullpen.
Eckstein, Pujols, Edmonds, Encarnacion, Rolen, etc...
You dont give them a chance??

**EBone** · 08-03-06, 10:58 AM

Bulldog, lets break down the pitching staff as you have it:

Cardinals probably go with a 3 man rotation throughout the playoffs whether it would be a 5 game or 7 game series. As it stands right now, the 3 man rotation would be:

Carpenter
Reyes
Suppan

Of course, this is my opinion as of 8/3/2006. Mulder is so questionable right now and Marquis is the mentalist of midgets. I have way more trust in Reyes than Marquis. Keep in mind: I'm a Cards fan and may be a little more "glass half empty" than most. Traditionally, the playoff Cardinal runs have been filled with voids in the pitching staff. In the days when Kile was the Cards ace, there was Kile and then absolutely no one. Duncan keeps insisting that Marquis has more talent than anyone on their pitching staff. Talent only gets you so far. Marquis is mentally challenged and, in my opinion, won't make a playoff start.

I agree that the everyday lineup can be good. As I've stated before, my daddy always told me that good pitching beats good hitting. The last 2 Cardinal playoff runs are a testimony to that statements. Silent bats equal losses for the Cardinals. And, if you watched the marathon last night, sometimes loud bats equal Cardinal losses when you're bullpen is absolutely running on fumes.

E

**Bulldog** · 08-03-06, 11:06 AM

Originally posted by EBone

I agree that the everyday lineup can be good. As I've stated before, my daddy always told me that good pitching beats good hitting. The last 2 Cardinal playoff runs are a testimony to that statements. Silent bats equal losses for the Cardinals. And, if you watched the marathon last night, sometimes loud bats equal Cardinal losses when you're bullpen is absolutely running on fumes.

We agree in many things, I actually do believe that Marquis could and probably will start come October.
Im just saying that the rest of the NL contenders have pitching issues as well.
I mean you guys just picked the Dodgers, and I think they could win the West but I dont think
Penny, Lowe, Maddux, ...Sele......... Tomko..........Dessens
could be considered dominant. Mets...Padres, Dominant?
By the way I just started a who will win the NLWC poll in the Main Forum... be sure to cast a vote. You would never guess who I voted for

**jesterson** · 08-03-06, 11:39 AM

Originally posted by Bulldog

So... Carpenter, Mulder, Marquis, Reyes. Throw Suppan in the bullpen.
Eckstein, Pujols, Edmonds, Encarnacion, Rolen, etc...
You dont give them a chance??

And you call that better than Pedro, Glavine, Duque, and (pick one) Trachsel, Maine, Perez, maybe Pelfrey? Though a Pelfrey-Reyes matchup would be a glimpse of the future.

And: Reyes, LoDuca, Beltran, Delgado, Wright, Floyd....

After Carpenter and (half the time) Mulder, the Mets will easily handle Marquis and Reyes...plus, Suppan would start instead of Reyes as LaRussa favors experience every time.

One of the most important factors of any playoff series is the bullpen, and even after the Sanchez injury, you've got to give it to the Mets til they prove otherwise.

A chance, sure, but the smart money is on the Metropolitans in 5 or 6, first game dependent (what a matchup!). I think you're just a bitter Braves fan still in love with Marquis

**Razz** · 08-03-06, 11:43 AM

Originally posted by Bulldog

I mean you guys just picked the Dodgers, and I think they could win the West but I dont think
Penny, Lowe, Maddux, ...Sele......... Tomko..........Dessens
could be considered dominant.

Hendrickson is their #2 starter right now, and one of the best lefties in the National League.

**EBone** · 08-03-06, 11:45 AM

Originally posted by Bulldog

By the way I just started a who will win the NLWC poll in the Main Forum... be sure to cast a vote. You would never guess who I voted for

I am the Dodgers vote in your poll, Bulldog. I agree with your point on the weak pitching in the NL. I think that is why everyone is waiting and holding their breath about the Astros if Pettite, Oswalt and Clemens can get into the playoffs. That staff, when right, can beat anyone in the NL including the Mets.

This year in the NL may be strange. With the weak pitching in the NL, a good hitting team with bad pitching could get into the World Series. I don't necessarily subscribe to this theory. But, with the Cardinals being an example, I think it made sense for NL teams to go after hitting instead of pitching at the trade deadline. I, personally, didn't support the inquiries the Cards made on Abreu but I certainly understood why they were looking into it. Ultimately, I think long term contract commitments prevented the Cards from getting Abreu.

With the weak pitching in the NL, it may come down to who gets hot at the plate during playoff time. I think only the Astros can counteract that in the NL. But, the Astros have to get in the playoffs first, which I don't think they can do.

E

**Bulldog** · 08-03-06, 11:53 AM

Originally posted by jesterson

And you call that better than Pedro, Glavine, Duque, and (pick one) Trachsel, Maine, Perez, maybe Pelfrey? Though a Pelfrey-Reyes matchup would be a glimpse of the future.
I think you're just a bitter Braves fan still in love with Marquis

Ok, Dude, Im not gonna take it personal. Im gonna cut you some slack since this winning thing is probably new to you.

Anyway, if you followed the thread the question was which team could give the Mets any trouble if any... And I argued that maybe St Louis could. I still think the Mets have the the best team in the NL. I dont think there's any NL team with a GREAT rotation, and that includes NY.
And just for the sake of getting bitter here's my NLCS prediction...
Carpenter beats Pedro twice, Glavine beats Mulder, Marquis beats Traschel, and Reyes beats El Duque... 4-1 baby... Only your ex-Brave came through!!!

Wouldn't that be nice!!!

**Willie Bee** · 08-03-06, 12:46 PM

Originally posted by EBone

But, the Astros have to get in the playoffs first, which I don't think they can do.

I agree, though I'm keeping the positive vibes going and trying to exorcise the bad juju we've been experiencing. In their favor is a relatively 'easy' August schedule, especially after this road trip that ends this weekend in the desert. Big series for Houston against the Snakes. After this weekend, 14 of their next 23 games are against the Brewers and Pirates, plus three against the Cubs. Not saying those will be cakewalks, especially Milwaukee. But it's a much easier slate than September when the 'Stros face the Mets, Cards (twice), Phillies (twice), Braves and Reds.

How big (potentially) does that end-of-season series in Atlanta between the Braves and Astros look right now?

As for St. Louis, or any other team for that matter, relying on a 3-man rotation in a 7-game series, I don't see it. Maybe if there's a rainout or something like that, but straight up (2 games, day off, 3 games, day off, 2 games), I think that's highly improbable. You can bring a guy back on short rest in Game 7, maybe even Game 6. But it's that middle Game 4 that makes such a venture dicey.

**Bulldog** · 08-03-06, 12:55 PM

Originally posted by Razz

Hendrickson is their #2 starter right now, and one of the best lefties in the National League.

You're totally right Razz, I forgot about him.

Regarding the Astros I agree with E and Willy. Still think they're the team to beat for the WC and their rotation come playoff time would be fearsome... but they needed a bat badly and they didnt get it.

**bigboydan** · 08-03-06, 01:54 PM

i can't believe you guys can't see the astros making the big run right about now. checkout there schedule for the month of August, it's cupcake city. september is the month they will have a bit of a tougher schedule, but i'm figuring by that time they will be gelling as a team very nicely to keep that surge going.

**Razz** · 08-03-06, 02:27 PM

The Braves schedule is easier, IMO
Most of the same teams, but more home games, and replacing one Milwaukee series with Washington.

**jesterson** · 08-03-06, 02:44 PM

Originally posted by Bulldog

Ok, Dude, Im not gonna take it personal. Im gonna cut you some slack since this winning thing is probably new to you.

Anyway, if you followed the thread the question was which team could give the Mets any trouble if any... And I argued that maybe St Louis could. I still think the Mets have the the best team in the NL. I dont think there's any NL team with a GREAT rotation, and that includes NY.
And just for the sake of getting bitter here's my NLCS prediction...
Carpenter beats Pedro twice, Glavine beats Mulder, Marquis beats Traschel, and Reyes beats El Duque... 4-1 baby... Only your ex-Brave came through!!!

Wouldn't that be nice!!!

It's all love man, please don't take it personal!! And the winning thing, it is indeed new and hopefully to be sustained with more than 1 WS win in 14 years

Admittedly, it is still weird rooting for Glavine because he was the embodiment of the Braves for so long, but as long as he can get it done in October, I'm OK with that.

Honestly, I really don't think Trax is gonna start game 3, if El Duque keeps up what he's doing and with his experience in the playoffs. I agree though, the only team of concern to the Mets in the playoffs is the Cards. My bad for not following the thread, my simple brain saw "Brave fan, Met basher" and I had to defend

Edit: Old habits die hard...I did indeed forget about the Dodgers, they are definitely the dark horse here if they can get in. Scary lineup and decent pitching. And that Ethier kid can swing the bat, holy cow! Can you imagine a Maddux vs Glavine game 2?? That was for you, Bulldog.

On a side note, anyone in the NY area want to go to the Mets/Phils game Sunday nite? If you're interested, let me know, no guarantees until I hear back form 2 more buddies, but I don't want to waste the ticket. It can be yours for a sausage and peppers and a beer.

**Bulldog** · 08-03-06, 03:25 PM

Originally posted by jesterson

It's all love man, please don't take it personal!! And the winning thing, it is indeed new and hopefully to be sustained with more than 1 WS win in 14 years

That hurt, and no personal offense taken.
As you well say its all good. Who knows, we might hang around the forum long enough to see the Braves win again!!
Actually when I first began watching baseball it was around 88 and the Mets had a great team... Hojo, McReynolds, Strawberry, Jefferies, Cone etc... I used to like them... back then,