Nadal vs Djokovic - Here we go!

[shari91]

Novak's run was the best that we'll probably ever see in our lifetime. Nadal's dominance on clay will also most likely never be matched and then when you figure in what he accomplished at a much younger age than anyone else before him it's mind blowing. Federer being the absolute #1 of his sport for however many years to me equates to Tiger (as far as guys in the modern era). Just pure domination.

I've disliked each of these guys at one time or another. But I really can't any more. Nadal will fight until the end and will make you win the match if you're going to beat him with everything you have, Fed has now rightfully moved on into legend territory and Djoko has such an arsenal of shots that you just have no clue what he's going to do. I can't figure it out as a spectator... I couldn't imagine when those balls were being drilled at me across the net. These guys are brilliant. Unless you're backing their opponent of course. If anything all 3 of them 'deserve' to achieve that elusive goal. Yes for different reasons but I can't see how anyone could knock them if they finally got it. We're just extremely privileged to have watched them all in their prime. Look at the other guys floating around the top 50. It's going to be a long time before we see anything even close to this again.

[boeing power]

Shari,

Tell us more about balls getting drilled at you.

[jjgold]

Bottom line is there will never ever be a Raffy, Joker and Fed

There consistency is unreal especially in today's spoiled and lazy world.


Enjoy this high level tennis while it lasts

Joker if stays healthy I do not know how you can beat the guy


Raffy could win a few more slams if things go his way

Raffy plays high level tennis on all surfaces as his past results show

[shari91]

boeing

Bottom line is there will never ever be a Raffy, Joker and Fed

There consistency is unreal especially in today's spoiled and lazy world.


Enjoy this high level tennis while it lasts

Joker if stays healthy I do not know how you can beat the guy


Raffy could win a few more slams if things go his way

Raffy plays high level tennis on all surfaces as his past results show

I've said a few times on here that I'm sure these guys wonder why the hell they all had to appear at the same time. Each of them have different aspects to their game that would kill anyone else but each other. If any of them were around on their own it'd be a slaughterfest. But on the other hand that's what makes it so great as a fan. Watching them fight it out for every title, Slam or not. You know they'd do anything to beat each other. We're very very lucky to see this.

[Cheme82]

right, so no one deserves it. I'm just saying that it doesn't mean anything.

Deserve to me would be "He was playing well enough to deserve it, but it didn't happen for him."



Neither of them have dominated like Novak, and that kind of dominance would be what's needed to win it. So to me, Novak "deserves" it more than Nadal or Federer ever did, because it's not about having a good long career or being great for several years. It's about excellence over that one year.

So while obviously Nadal and Federer have had better careers to date, neither of them ever did what Novak has been doing recently.

Nadal's shot at the Rafa Slam ended in the 2011 Australian Open because of injury. Novak's ended today because he can't beat Nadal on clay. How can you say he deserves it more when he lost his chance because he is not good enough to beat Rafa on clay, and Rafa lost his chance because he got injured.

[yisman]

Djokovic is good enough to beat Rafa on clay. He's beaten him on clay multiple times.

To me, Djokovic had a better chance at winning this tournament than Rafa did in the AO 2011.

[jjgold]

Lol

Joker can easily beat Nadal on clay

There about dead even as far as talent level

Joker was off this tourney slightly

Raffy plays scared against him

[Cheme82]

Djokovic is good enough to beat Rafa on clay. He's beaten him on clay multiple times.

To me, Djokovic had a better chance at winning this tournament than Rafa did in the AO 2011.

Not even close, Novak had no shot. The only reason it wasn't over in 3 was the rain. Rafa is 12-2 on clay againts Novak, and the 2 losses came right in the middle of the insane year Novak had last year. That's all gone now.

[shari91]

Nadal's shot at the Rafa Slam ended in the 2011 Australian Open because of injury. Novak's ended today because he can't beat Nadal on clay. How can you say he deserves it more when he lost his chance because he is not good enough to beat Rafa on clay, and Rafa lost his chance because he got injured.

I agree with that totally. Again we can't pretend to know what the outcome would've been in 2011 but I would've banked more on Nadal winning the Final here in Australia than Djokovic getting the French win in his first shot. At least not against a Nadal who's been on fire. He lost today because he was beaten by the better player on the surface. Nadal failed to get the chance to try for it because of an injury. Huge difference.

[yisman]

Not even close, Novak had no shot.

Of course he had a shot. He's the second best clay courter in the world and has beaten Rafa before. The weather is the weather, and the fact remains that Nadal did have to battle to win. Many on here were betting against Nadal to win this tournament.

I would put Federer and Djokovic ahead of Nadal in the AO, and by the way, Nadal was already down a break when he was injured.

[yisman]

I agree with that totally.

You agree totally that Novak can't beat Nadal on clay?

[Demonata]

he had the best year in tennis I've ever seen. That's enough to deserve it. But not everyone that deserves it gets to do it.

Exactly.

[Cheme82]

Of course he had a shot. He's the second best clay courter in the world and has beaten Rafa before. The weather is the weather, and the fact remains that Nadal did have to battle to win. Many on here were betting against Nadal to win this tournament.

I would put Federer and Djokovic ahead of Nadal in the AO, and by the way, Nadal was already down a break when he was injured.

Agreed. But neither of them is remotely close to owning that tournament (or any) the way Nadal owns this one. That's a fact. So Rafa on any surface against anybody has a better chance to win than anybody else against him at the French Open. And just because he was down a break against someone that he hadn't lost to in 4 years (and had only lost to 3 times in 11 years), is little proof that he would have lost that match had he not gotten injured.

[yisman]

Agreed. But neither of them is remotely close to owning that tournament (or any) the way Nadal owns this one. That's a fact. So Rafa on any surface against anybody has a better chance to win than anybody else against him at the French Open.

I assume you mean the Australian Open in the last line.

2011 was the year of the Novak, so I'm confident in that Rafa wouldn't have beaten him.

Novak beat Berdych in straights, Federer in straights, and Murray in a rout.

[makman]

Way to go Rafa! I'm glad it was also to end a chance for the Novak slam. If Federer and Rafa (who have dominated for so long) haven't gotten it, Novak definitely hasn't done enough to deserve it.

Hopefully Rafa gets it in his head that he can beat him (he should have won the Australian open this year), and he takes Wimbledon. He needs to realize that as hot as Novak's last 18 months have been, he is still the more accomplished player and perfectly capable of getting back to dominating. Novak has to prove he can maintain his domination.

A grand slam is not something which players deserve like getting Academy Honorary Award.
A tennis player who wins 4 tournaments in 1 year time gets it, and when they get it it means they deserved it
Joker got so close to it, he could get it. But he couldnt, that s all.
There is no need to mention if he deserved that or not.
Roger Federer won 16 single titles, but it doesnt count to deserve
Rod Laver made it two times by winning 11 single-titles
Had Rod Laver deserved it more than Federer??? Who knows???

BTW i have nothing to say for your conclusion of that Rafa is more accomplished player after one rain-broken final played in two days.

But for your hopes of Nadal's domination..... As long as there is a healthy Novak there, all Rafa can get is some more best shots of him dealing with his shorts in his ass and some more funny cramps in interviews until the next FO.

[Demonata]

You made a few different points there, so let me take them one by one:

1) "Rafa better of won on the only surface he dominates on". Yes, you are right.
2) "You must hate Novak a ton to be glad that he did not win all the slams". It's not that I hate him a ton, it's just his fruity way of playing is irritating, and he's taken 3 majors from Rafa which would have tied him with Federer, and probably given him the Rafa slam. Speaking about "Insert name" slams:
3) "Speaking of which Federer has done it before". Federer has not done it before, the last time it was done Federer wasn't even close to being born but I believe Shari already explained that to you.
4) "To prove you wrong". Not even close, but thanks for trying.
6) "Hopefully Novak dominates in the other slams again". Hopefully not.
7) "Novak is a better hard court player than Nadal hands down". This one you got right, I'm proud of you.
8) "How did Nadal prove he should of won the Australian Open?" He was serving for match and had an easy backhand for championship point, that shot still haunts him. I'm actually glad they made them play in the shitty weather and Novak made a mini come back just so that Nadal felt that pressure and still won it. I believe it is better for his game and confidence than if he would have just won 3-0.
9) "Fedderer is still the more accomplished player too but who cares. What matters is the present." If you are talking about the best player ever you can't just focus on what people are doing now, you need to see what they have done before and wait to see what they will do after. Once they are retired then you can take a look at all their body of work and decide then.
10) "Nadal has to prove he can win more than 1 grand slam in a year against Djokovic." Nadal is 6-3 in majors against Novak, all of Novak's wins came in a 7-month stretch that was part of probably the best tennis year anybody has ever had. But the momentum he had last year is gone now, this year Novak is 36-6 with 2 titles (1 major), Rafa is 40-4 with 4 titles (1 major). This year's Wimbledon has a lot riding on it.

1. The only way he can beat Nadal in a grand slam is on clay. Nadal can't close against Djokovic in a slam except for on clay.
2.His fruity way of playing? Wish I could play as good as him even if it's "fruity..." It sure wins him a lot of matches even with how fruity it is.
3.I was talking about winning all 4 of them in a career. As I explained after my post.
4. Who cares.
6.Novak will win a lot more slams.He is starting to really find his game and dominate.
7.Nadal is not good enough to beat Djoker on another surface in a slam.
8.The person that deserves to win is the one that doesn't choke.Also why would he be pressured when Djokovic is not as good on clay and Nadal already beat him in the monte carlo tournament recently.
9.Duh. Of course you compare a career and when it's all said and done Djokovic could be the best ever. Look at the run he had. Whens the last time Nadal or even fed had as good of a run?
10.Nadal is 6-3 in majors? How many were on clay though... Enough said. Novak should win wimbledon.

[shari91]

You agree totally that Novak can't beat Nadal on clay?

Of course he can be beaten on clay. His record on clay is 'only' 284-28 haha. However only five of those losses were in the past 6 years. SIX YEARS. He had over 200 wins in that time on clay. So do I think there's a better clay court player on any given day? No.

However that's not what I was agreeing with Cheme with. I was agreeing with the point that Nadal's chance to hold all 4 titles was ruined because of injury. Djokovic's ended because he was beaten by the better player in a Grand Slam clay court final. There's a reason this is the first one Djoko's made it to. Just like Nadal had to adjust to other surfaces in order to win those Slams, Djokovic will have to do the same if it's him vs Nadal in the Final again. His weapons won't work in perfect conditions on clay against Nadal.

[yisman]

However that's not what I was agreeing with Cheme with.

You quoted his post and said you agreed totally so I assumed you were agreeing with everything.

So do I think there's a better clay court player on any given day? No.

Neither do I, but I take issue with the idea that he can't beat Nadal on clay, because he obviously can.

[shari91]

And again: I bet him on the ML. Twice

So it's not like I'm a Djoko hater or Nadal sympathiser. But he was getting his ass handed to him. This isn't like that boxing match the other night where people subjectively score shit. He was losing in all areas until the conditions changed. I love the guy and am confident he'll do the work to make the same adjustments to clay that Nadal had to do to grass and hard but this was a big ask on his part.

[Demonata]

Not even close, Novak had no shot. The only reason it wasn't over in 3 was the rain. Rafa is 12-2 on clay againts Novak, and the 2 losses came right in the middle of the insane year Novak had last year. That's all gone now.

You can never say Novak has no shot at anything with what he can do. If Novak wins Wimbledon and the U S Open than I say he had another amazing year.

[yisman]

Just pointing out that while Nadal is the better player on clay at the moment, Djokovic is capable of beating him.

Otherwise I think the line would've been higher.

[Cheme82]

I assume you mean the Australian Open in the last line.

2011 was the year of the Novak, so I'm confident in that Rafa wouldn't have beaten him.

Novak beat Berdych in straights, Federer in straights, and Murray in a rout.

Yes, I meant the AO. And I'm not saying that Rafa would have beaten him in the Finals but up until Rafa got hurt, he hadn't dropped a set and had only lost 23 games in the whole tournament. Novak had dropped a set already, and had lost more games (28) than Nadal, even with a 1-set win against his countyman Troicki who retired in the 3rd. round. So Rafa was playing better, plain and simple. So I don't share your confidence that Novak had that title regardless of who he was playing against. Of course Murray wasn't gonna beat him, he sucks and is fuk buddies with fruit cakovic.

So if 2011 was the year of the Novak then why is it that he didn't even make it to the finals in the FO even though he was healthy?

[shari91]

You quoted his post and said you agreed totally so I assumed you were agreeing with everything.



Neither do I, but I take issue with the idea that he can't beat Nadal on clay, because he obviously can.

Sure he can beat Nadal on clay. But he hasn't done it over 5 sets. Until he does I can't buy into that. Djoko has owned him in Slams on all the other surfaces during the last 12 mths. He hasn't done it here yet. Just like I said that I won't believe Nadal's curse from Djoko was truly broken unless Nadal won this final, I won't believe Djoko can beat him at RG until he does. How can we have that confidence until it happens? Too many intangibles that come into play once the match is underway.

[Cheme82]

A grand slam is not something which players deserve like getting Academy Honorary Award.
A tennis player who wins 4 tournaments in 1 year time gets it, and when they get it it means they deserved it
Joker got so close to it, he could get it. But he couldnt, that s all.
There is no need to mention if he deserved that or not.
Roger Federer won 16 single titles, but it doesnt count to deserve
Rod Laver made it two times by winning 11 single-titles
Had Rod Laver deserved it more than Federer??? Who knows???

BTW i have nothing to say for your conclusion of that Rafa is more accomplished player after one rain-broken final played in two days.

But for your hopes of Nadal's domination..... As long as there is a healthy Novak there, all Rafa can get is some more best shots of him dealing with his shorts in his ass and some more funny cramps in interviews until the next FO.

Sorry to inform you that Rafa has a better shot at beating the joker in grass and hard court than Novak has at winning the French as long as Rafa is still playing.

[Demonata]

Yes, I meant the AO. And I'm not saying that Rafa would have beaten him in the Finals but up until Rafa got hurt, he hadn't dropped a set and had only lost 23 games in the whole tournament. Novak had dropped a set already, and had lost more games (28) than Nadal, even with a 1-set win against his countyman Troicki who retired in the 3rd. round. So Rafa was playing better, plain and simple. So I don't share your confidence that Novak had that title regardless of who he was playing against. Of course Murray wasn't gonna beat him, he sucks and is fuk buddies with fruit cakovic.

So if 2011 was the year of the Novak then why is it that he didn't even make it to the finals in the FO even though he was healthy?

Since he did not make it to the finals in one slam than it lowers his last year that significantly?Nadal was not even close to Novaks season last year. Novak made it this year and already won the Australian Open. Hell he probably will win Wimbledon and the US Open too.It's not easy to win all 4 in the same year but I will take Novak to do it over Nadal.

[Demonata]

Sorry to inform you that Rafa has a better shot at beating the joker in grass and hard court than Novak has at winning the French as long as Rafa is still playing.

I will take winning the 3 other slams than just owning clay any day. Also Novak is just starting to get really good and already made the french open final this year after only dominating last year. I'm sure he has plenty of time to get better. Does not make final than makes final, what's to say he wont win it next year.

[yisman]

Yes, I meant the AO. And I'm not saying that Rafa would have beaten him in the Finals but up until Rafa got hurt, he hadn't dropped a set and had only lost 23 games in the whole tournament. Novak had dropped a set already, and had lost more games (28) than Nadal, even with a 1-set win against his countyman Troicki who retired in the 3rd. round. So Rafa was playing better, plain and simple.

I disagree. Over the course of the tournament, you can see how Novak was the best player by how easily he handled Federer and Murray, two elite hard court players. Rafa didn't beat any top players. Speaking of retirements, Rafa didn't complete all his matches either. His first round opponent retired in the second.

Of course Murray wasn't gonna beat him, he sucks and is fuk buddies with fruit cakovic.

You obviously have some personal animus here.

By the way, Murray has beaten Djokovic five times, thrice in finals.

[makman]

Sorry to inform you that Rafa has a better shot at beating the joker in grass and hard court than Novak has at winning the French as long as Rafa is still playing.

Thanks for your valuable information. I just do not understand one thing, why do you pronounce them as grass and hard court but say French instead of clay ???
Because you are French? or what?
Both Madrid and Rome were made of clay last year, when Joker was toying with Rafa, but i assume they are not counted for clay because of their location outside of France???

[Cheme82]

1. The only way he can beat Nadal in a grand slam is on clay. Nadal can't close against Djokovic in a slam except for on clay.
2.His fruity way of playing? Wish I could play as good as him even if it's "fruity..." It sure wins him a lot of matches even with how fruity it is.
3.I was talking about winning all 4 of them in a career. As I explained after my post.
4. Who cares.
6.Novak will win a lot more slams.He is starting to really find his game and dominate.
7.Nadal is not good enough to beat Djoker on another surface in a slam.
8.The person that deserves to win is the one that doesn't choke.Also why would he be pressured when Djokovic is not as good on clay and Nadal already beat him in the monte carlo tournament recently.
9.Duh. Of course you compare a career and when it's all said and done Djokovic could be the best ever. Look at the run he had. Whens the last time Nadal or even fed had as good of a run?
10.Nadal is 6-3 in majors? How many were on clay though... Enough said. Novak should win wimbledon.

1) You fuked up again, even if you ignore the clay wins, Nadal is 2-3 on slams against Novak. And all 3 wins for Novak came in the middle of his awesome year. Like I said, that year is over. Nadal is playing better tennis right now.
2) I never said he wasn't good, I said he looks fruity out there in the court. Just look at some of his pictures during matches, half the time he is stretching as if getting ready to receive a huge kok, the other half it looks like he's "a la seconde".
3) You were trying to prove my statement wrong, in order to do that you need to first understand what I wrote, you didn't.
4) Obviously you do. You said "To prove you wrong, which I did". Except, you didn't.
5) I missed this one.
6) Novak's dream year is over, he "found" his game and dominated last year, that is over now. He is still world class, but not as dominant as he was last year.
7) See #1
8) I never said he deserved to win it, I said he should have won it. Rafa felt pressure because he was playing a guy that had beat him so many times in grand slam finals recently and they forced them to play in conditions that benefited the other guy. He went from complete control of the match to complete unraveling.
9) For the joker to be the best ever he needs to have about 4 more years of the kind of domination he had last year. Not gonna happen.
10) If we take away Rafa's wins in clays, and Novak's wins in hard courts (which by the way is half the amount of wins we are taking away from Rafa). Rafa is still up 2-1 ... Enough said.

If we get the same final matchup would you lake to make a wager on the Wimbledon final?

[yisman]

Match is over
Bet big on Joker

It's over

Jokers backers will win

We are all going to clean up

Nadal looks done
Cannot take pressure

Spot on like usual!

[makman]

Yes, I meant the AO. And I'm not saying that Rafa would have beaten him in the Finals but up until Rafa got hurt, he hadn't dropped a set and had only lost 23 games in the whole tournament. Novak had dropped a set already, and had lost more games (28) than Nadal, even with a 1-set win against his countyman Troicki who retired in the 3rd. round. So Rafa was playing better, plain and simple. So I don't share your confidence that Novak had that title regardless of who he was playing against. Of course Murray wasn't gonna beat him, he sucks and is fuk buddies with fruit cakovic.

So if 2011 was the year of the Novak then why is it that he didn't even make it to the finals in the FO even though he was healthy?

Noone had informed you about this until now???
Dropping a set has no meaning. If you know what i mean

[shari91]

Djokovic is the best player in tennis today. I don't think there's a question about that. Will he sustain that? Many thought he'd crash and burn this year but he hasn't. Reaching the Finals of the French is a massive accomplishment for him as he's never done it before. Nadal reached the Wimbledon final in '06 (lost to Fed) - his first non clay Final - after winning his first French and then repeating to make it two in a row. Then he got kicked in the quarters of the US Open by Youzhny right after and then lost in the QFs to Verdasco at the Aussie Open.

Djokovic has reached his "off surface" Final after a year of winning every other Slam. Let's see what happens when it's time for him to defend titles as he has 3 to protect. Djokovic only has one surface to improve on. I think that's going to make all of the difference.

[yisman]

I don't think he can keep up this level. He's clearly the best in the world but I don't think he'll win the next three. and I'd feel the same way even if you told me Federer and Nadal wouldn't win them. There are enough threats.

[Cheme82]

You can never say Novak has no shot at anything with what he can do. If Novak wins Wimbledon and the U S Open than I say he had another amazing year.

Anybody winning 2 majors is an amazing year. But Novak has no shot at beating Nadal at the French Open in good conditions. His one shot (just because of momentum) would have been last year's tournament and he couldn't even make it to the finals.

[jjgold]

Nadal slightly better than Joker on clay but its getting very close to dead even