THREADS! MOOOOOOAR THREEEEEEADS! My Fourth Pickin'-Thread <3

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  • fitguy67
    SBR Hall of Famer
    • 03-13-11
    • 5082

    #561
    i've thot a ton and experimented a ton with all sorts of bet-sizing regimes over the last few years...

    being an economist and noticing that countries that take a more simple (passive application of a formula) approach to their money-supply policy have a smoother growth and stability experience than those that more actively try manage interest rates... has biased me toward less active management/more deference to simple target-achieving formulas...

    also the Kelly-Criterion is based on TARGETING (not risking) a % of your roll commensurate with your perceived expected value. In sport betting this is simply the ratio of your best-estimate win% vs. the book's implied win% buried in the odds...but due to the uncertainty of even your "best" estimate, i've concluded it's best to abandon trying to do this on an individual-play basis...and instead assume a flat % "edge"...as you operate, your ROI will objectively tell you just what that edge is...looks like yours is at least 5% over the haul...my version of low-variance Kelly (at one-fifth strength, say...to make ruination before doubling highly unlikely) then would prescribe targeting 1% on each and every play...cuz u'r assuming that all plays you approve of are in essence being peeled off the same giant never-ending deck of 5%-edge plays...

    _____________

    the funny thing u'll notice tho' is how little this'll change anything really for you...cuz when u're thinking in terms of how many units to RISK...you're actually already adjusting in similar ways...

    your big dogs are always to risk low units...and your big faves usually risk much more...
    risk 2 units @ 5...vs., say 8 units @ 2 look very different (like you're pounding the latter vs. the former) but in effect they're both the same in "ToWIN" terms: they both are targeting 8units of net gain...(the odds themselves dictate the difference in amount risked)

    switching focus from the standard risk-based protocol to the "fixed target" protocol just simplifies and standardizes this adjustment process..."more likely to hit" fave plays are WORTH a larger risk to win the same target and "less likely to hit" dog plays simply shouldn't cost as much cuz the likelihood of cashing is lower...

    if you think in terms of units risked, u actually have to compensate (with EV-estimating formulas or more intuitively)...but if u operate in terms of TO WIN it's all automatic
    Last edited by fitguy67; 02-25-14, 01:07 AM.
    Comment
    • poet
      SBR Wise Guy
      • 08-11-13
      • 796

      #562
      Originally posted by fitguy67
      i've thot a ton and experimented a ton with all sorts of bet-sizing regimes over the last few years...

      being an economist and noticing that countries that take a more simple (passive application of a formula) approach to their money-supply policy have a smoother growth and stability experience than those that more actively try manage interest rates... has biased me toward less active management/more deference to simple target-achieving formulas...

      also the Kelly-Criterion is based on TARGETING (not risking) a % of your roll commensurate with your perceived expected value. In sport betting this is simply the ratio of your best-estimate win% vs. the book's implied win% buried in the odds...but due to the uncertainty of even your "best" estimate, i've concluded it's best to abandon trying to do this on an individual-play basis...and instead assume a flat % "edge"...as you operate, your ROI will objectively tell you just what that edge is...looks like yours is at least 5% over the haul...my version of low-variance Kelly (at one-fifth strength, say...to make ruination before doubling highly unlikely) then would prescribe targeting 1% on each and every play...cuz u'r assuming that all plays you approve of are in essence being peeled off the same giant never-ending deck of 5%-edge plays...

      _____________

      the funny thing u'll notice tho' is how little this'll change anything really for you...cuz when u're thinking in terms of how many units to RISK...you're actually already adjusting in similar ways...

      your big dogs are always to risk low units...and your big faves usually risk much more...
      risk 2 units @ 5...vs., say 8 units @ 2 look very different (like you're pounding the latter vs. the former) but in effect they're both the same in "ToWIN" terms: they both are targeting 8units of net gain...(the odds themselves dictate the difference in amount risked)

      switching focus from the standard risk-based protocol to the "fixed target" protocol just simplifies and standardizes this adjustment process..."more likely to hit" fave plays are WORTH a larger risk to win the same target and "less likely to hit" dog plays simply shouldn't cost as much cuz the likelihood of cashing is lower...

      if you think in terms of units risked, u actually have to compensate (with EV-estimating formulas or more intuitively)...but if u operate in terms of TO WIN it's all automatic
      Thanks, fitguy. All of this is very interesting, although I must admit some of it went over my head as I have little knowledge of economic theory. Tailing HC to win a set amount each time sounds interesting, although I'm not sure he'd want me that close to him.
      Comment
      • Hardcoar
        SBR Posting Legend
        • 02-17-13
        • 15606

        #563
        Bellucci 1:st @ 1.813 – 10 units (Pinnacle)
        Comment
        • Hardcoar
          SBR Posting Legend
          • 02-17-13
          • 15606

          #564
          Larsson @ 1.57 – 5 units (Ladbrokes)
          Comment
          • BigPage25
            SBR MVP
            • 04-17-12
            • 3571

            #565
            u think belluci will win the match or just the first set???
            Comment
            • Hardcoar
              SBR Posting Legend
              • 02-17-13
              • 15606

              #566
              Both. He is favorite, isn't he?
              Comment
              • fitguy67
                SBR Hall of Famer
                • 03-13-11
                • 5082

                #567
                Originally posted by poet
                Tailing HC to win a set amount each time sounds interesting, although I'm not sure he'd want me that close to him.
                Hmmm...tailing HC, if you are HC might be problematic...HC would have to be especially careful to not stop quickly without warning you...

                you could, however, avoid these sorts of complications quite simply by running a few additional "as if" spreadsheet columns

                _________

                if I were HC, however, I wouldn't really change anything I do...as I'd already be quite used to my theoretically-sound bet-sizing methods and the volatility of my growth path...and, most importantly, my positive ROI...if others wanted to tinker with the plays I post at SBR, it wouldn't bother me at all...

                imitation (with or without modification) is a sincere form of flattery...

                carry on, sir

                _______

                p.s. the "latino Japmaster" just cost me some coin, lol
                Comment
                • Hardcoar
                  SBR Posting Legend
                  • 02-17-13
                  • 15606

                  #568
                  Matosevic @ 3.66 – 3 units (Pinnacle)
                  Comment
                  • poet
                    SBR Wise Guy
                    • 08-11-13
                    • 796

                    #569
                    Originally posted by Hardcoar
                    Bellucci 1:st @ 1.813 – 10 units (Pinnacle)
                    Ah, so you do like Bellucci? But why first set and not match?
                    Comment
                    • zec
                      SBR Wise Guy
                      • 01-03-14
                      • 548

                      #570
                      Better odds
                      Comment
                      • poet
                        SBR Wise Guy
                        • 08-11-13
                        • 796

                        #571
                        Originally posted by zec
                        Better odds
                        I figured as much, Zec, but with the guy dropping first sets in his previous matches and then coming back to win I'd think the full match is the safer bet. And this is exactly what I was getting to with my question yesterday regarding value vs outcome. In other words, HC is going with value here even though paying more juice for him to win the match might be the safer play, as far as outcome goes.
                        Comment
                        • Hardcoar
                          SBR Posting Legend
                          • 02-17-13
                          • 15606

                          #572
                          You're right, but I found more value in these odds than those on ML offered at the time.
                          Comment
                          • poet
                            SBR Wise Guy
                            • 08-11-13
                            • 796

                            #573
                            Don't say I didn't warn you about Bellucci 1st set...
                            Comment
                            • Hardcoar
                              SBR Posting Legend
                              • 02-17-13
                              • 15606

                              #574
                              I'm not. Tough luck!
                              Comment
                              • Hardcoar
                                SBR Posting Legend
                                • 02-17-13
                                • 15606

                                #575
                                Van Uytvanck @ 1.806 – 5 units (Pinnacle)
                                Comment
                                • DownTheLine
                                  SBR High Roller
                                  • 02-10-14
                                  • 230

                                  #576
                                  ^ On the above as well. Some seem to favor Chea due to the conditions though.
                                  Comment
                                  • CallMeGENO
                                    SBR Wise Guy
                                    • 03-14-10
                                    • 749

                                    #577
                                    Comment
                                    • DownTheLine
                                      SBR High Roller
                                      • 02-10-14
                                      • 230

                                      #578
                                      Comment
                                      • charley365
                                        SBR High Roller
                                        • 01-16-10
                                        • 223

                                        #579
                                        That's so funny, that's hours in front of the mirror, with his gf thinking he's a idiot, but he pulls it off
                                        Comment
                                        • Hardcoar
                                          SBR Posting Legend
                                          • 02-17-13
                                          • 15606

                                          #580
                                          Dulgheru @ 2.06 – 4 units (Pinnacle)
                                          Comment
                                          • DownTheLine
                                            SBR High Roller
                                            • 02-10-14
                                            • 230

                                            #581
                                            YES! We're on the same wave lengths today Hard, I'm loving it! How is Pereira favored here made 0 sense to me. It's a surface change for her and she's 10-20 lifetime on hard courts. Home court advantage really that important here?
                                            Comment
                                            • MartyFR
                                              SBR Sharp
                                              • 02-14-14
                                              • 317

                                              #582
                                              I seem to always bet the opposite of you HC.

                                              I'm on Pereira for today.
                                              Comment
                                              • DownTheLine
                                                SBR High Roller
                                                • 02-10-14
                                                • 230

                                                #583
                                                Pereira could very well win she's feisty, just seems like everything points away from her minus playing in Brazil. Good luck to us all, will probably be a 3 set back and forther.
                                                Comment
                                                • AceAce
                                                  SBR High Roller
                                                  • 02-23-14
                                                  • 158

                                                  #584
                                                  Good hit!
                                                  Comment
                                                  • Hardcoar
                                                    SBR Posting Legend
                                                    • 02-17-13
                                                    • 15606

                                                    #585
                                                    DogPooLove/Chardy O. 22.5 @ 2.01 – 5 units (Pinnacle)
                                                    Comment
                                                    • Hardcoar
                                                      SBR Posting Legend
                                                      • 02-17-13
                                                      • 15606

                                                      #586
                                                      Tomljanovic -1 @ 1.84 – 3 units (Pinnacle)
                                                      Comment
                                                      • EaglesPhan36
                                                        SBR Aristocracy
                                                        • 12-06-06
                                                        • 71662

                                                        #587
                                                        Originally posted by Hardcoar
                                                        DogPooLove/Chardy O. 22.5 @ 2.01 – 5 units (Pinnacle)
                                                        I am suggesting Chard-onay as a nickname for the other because he's white and only effeminate males can stomach him. Today, I am one of the eff males.
                                                        Comment
                                                        • Hardcoar
                                                          SBR Posting Legend
                                                          • 02-17-13
                                                          • 15606

                                                          #588
                                                          I like that... how do you like the play then?
                                                          Comment
                                                          • EaglesPhan36
                                                            SBR Aristocracy
                                                            • 12-06-06
                                                            • 71662

                                                            #589
                                                            Probably better than the Chardy ML I took.
                                                            Comment
                                                            • Hardcoar
                                                              SBR Posting Legend
                                                              • 02-17-13
                                                              • 15606

                                                              #590
                                                              Ferrer -3.5 @ 1.862 – 5 units (Pinnacle)
                                                              Comment
                                                              • Hardcoar
                                                                SBR Posting Legend
                                                                • 02-17-13
                                                                • 15606

                                                                #591
                                                                Goerges @ 2.88 – 2 units (Pinnacle)
                                                                Comment
                                                                • DownTheLine
                                                                  SBR High Roller
                                                                  • 02-10-14
                                                                  • 230

                                                                  #592
                                                                  Tomljanovic! McHale! Womens tennis is pretty today! Whats your analysis on Goerges Hard... she can obviously go off at any moment but still seems like a decent price if the right Julia shows up.
                                                                  Comment
                                                                  • Hardcoar
                                                                    SBR Posting Legend
                                                                    • 02-17-13
                                                                    • 15606

                                                                    #593
                                                                    F*cked that last bitch (Zacharias) up, decent H2H, Kanepi went three last match, both players unpredictable, the odds. Worth a small shot at close to @ 3.
                                                                    Comment
                                                                    • charley365
                                                                      SBR High Roller
                                                                      • 01-16-10
                                                                      • 223

                                                                      #594
                                                                      nice play on Tomljanovic
                                                                      Comment
                                                                      • Hardcoar
                                                                        SBR Posting Legend
                                                                        • 02-17-13
                                                                        • 15606

                                                                        #595
                                                                        Dustov @ 1.476 – 4 units (Pinnacle)
                                                                        Comment
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