Creditwagering and the fair debt collection practices act

**fiveteamer** · 10-15-08, 12:34 PM

If CA's followed the FDCPA, they wouldn't be calling my neighbours 4 times a week.

**themajormt** · 10-15-08, 12:41 PM

Originally posted by Justin7

While I think CW has a very interesting business model, its publishing of the "super stiff list" is a pretty clear violation of the FDCPA. Under the definitions, CW is clearly a creditor and a debt collector. Debt collectors are normally not allowed to disclose private information to other people, nor are they allowed to do things intended to harass. The stiff page, if authentic, does both of these.

So what? If a debt collector violates this, he can get sued for $1000 per person. This in itself isn't a big deal. The bigger risk is that this practice goes further than "normal" internet gambling, and draws the ire of the feds.

Of course, the stiff page could be fabricated, in which case it is just brilliant marketing.

The page definitely isnt fabricated, I actually know one of the guys on there...

I work in collections, and have for many years, and I dont think the FDCPA applies due to CW being a foreign company without any standing in the US. Also, CW's legal right to collect the "debt" is definitely open to interpretation because a clear and concise contract is not drawn between the 2 parties involved. I think the fact that they have added multiple hoops to jump through to collect any winnings, and the other limits imposed could end up hurting them.

If they try and transfer the "debt" to a US based collection agency the agency could, and should, be sued immediately. Gambling debts are not legal debts, unless it was done with a licensed/sanctioned/endorsed casino with a contract SIGNED. They would have no proof that the person who wagered was in fact the person they are trying to collect from. An emailed copy of a license with an IP address does not give enough evidence to PROVE who in fact placed the wagers. I have had a hard enough time proving it was the customer who rang up the new plasma and then tried to say it was fraud when we had their signature AND them on videotape!

**themajormt** · 10-15-08, 12:43 PM

Originally posted by fiveteamer

If CA's followed the FDCPA, they wouldn't be calling my neighbours 4 times a week.

If the agency is in fact calling your neighbors more than once, after the neighbor has requested them to stop contacting them, make sure to send a letter to the AG of your state and document all calls. A warning letter to the CA will usually work unless they truly dont care and budget for lawsuits... Which I know a lot of places do!

**fiveteamer** · 10-15-08, 12:44 PM

ugh, you're a collection agent?

is this what you wanted to be when you were a kid?

**compaqDikk** · 10-15-08, 12:46 PM

these are paid acotors, c'mon people

**jjgold** · 10-15-08, 12:47 PM

Justin offshore bookmaking is illegal so anything goes as there are no rules to collect money, killings,putting up personal info, extortion is all part of the game . If it was a legal usa coporation you would be correct.

Justin ...............Bennett Sanders on the list is a dead ringer for you. I know it is not you but you look pretty close when i compare pic in your vids to this guy. I am not sure if I am giving you a compliment or not.

**themajormt** · 10-15-08, 12:51 PM

Originally posted by fiveteamer

ugh, you're a collection agent?

is this what you wanted to be when you were a kid?

Haha I am not a "agent"... No it was not what I wanted to be when I was younger but it paid my way through college and law school. There are some reputable companies out there but the majority of them are pretty bad. I work in business collections/finance now so I dont deal with consumer collections anymore.

The only thing I can say in defense of collection agencies is, they are 95% of the time calling for a valid reason. Yes they abuse the processes and laws that were made BUT you owe someone money and have failed to do anything about it. You usually dont get collection calls until 7 months from your last payment!

And I dont believe they are paid actors compaq, I know the guy from Marcellus that is on there.... Could be though?

**compaqDikk** · 10-15-08, 12:52 PM

justin we are still in the wild wild west and most of here are sharp enough to be above the law. walker provided us with fancy lawyers. most of us will never be able to touch foot however on US soil again

**Mudcat** · 10-15-08, 12:58 PM

They need to track down those stiffs and dip them in septic waste.

**themajormt** · 10-15-08, 12:59 PM

Originally posted by compaqDikk

justin we are still in the wild wild west and most of here are sharp enough to be above the law. walker provided us with fancy lawyers. most of us will never be able to touch foot however on US soil again

Who's Walker?? I guess I am definitely out of the loop on this one....

**daggerkobe** · 10-15-08, 01:08 PM

Definately not faked.

One of the guys was a popular poster on covers who bragged about stiffing them for months. He would post chat transcripts where he would taunt them.

Then he stopped posting altoghter after his picture was posted.

**pavyracer** · 10-15-08, 01:08 PM

Originally posted by themajormt

Who's Walker?? I guess I am definitely out of the loop on this one....

Walker is the owner of this site, SBR John. And jjgold and compaqdikk share the same brains if you know what I mean. Don't take these two, or one, seriously.

**themajormt** · 10-15-08, 01:11 PM

Originally posted by pavyracer

Walker is the owner of this site, SBR John. And jjgold and compaqdikk share the same brains if you know what I mean. Don't take these two, or one, seriously.

Why cant they step foot on US soil??

**compaqDikk** · 10-15-08, 01:14 PM

Originally posted by themajormt

Why cant they step foot on US soil??

same reason the minute jay cowherd of wsex landed in the States they bagged his ass and put him on 60 minutes then put him in the same pound me in the white ass collar crime division with benny sillman

freejaycohen.com

did any of you fukkers visit him besides me on xmas? that's what i thought assholes

**katstale** · 10-15-08, 01:20 PM

Originally posted by Mudcat

They need to track down those stiffs and dip them in septic waste.

Got to agree. Nothing worse than a stiff. Can't stand people crying cause bill collectors are calling them. Easy solution....

pay your bills and stop looking for a late night info/ad to help you beat your creditors.

I did my own collections for many years. Nothing relieves stress like bitch slappin some scumbag loser who owes you money while he is coming out of the store with a six pack.

There--I feel better already!!

**ms61853** · 10-15-08, 01:22 PM

Originally posted by Justin7

While I think CW has a very interesting business model, its publishing of the "super stiff list" is a pretty clear violation of the FDCPA. Under the definitions, CW is clearly a creditor and a debt collector. Debt collectors are normally not allowed to disclose private information to other people, nor are they allowed to do things intended to harass. The stiff page, if authentic, does both of these.

I don't think the FDCPA applies to the original creditor.

**daggerkobe** · 10-15-08, 01:26 PM

Dont some US stores post bounced checks near the cashier so everyone can read the identities of the "stiffs"?

Isn't this similar to what CW is doing?

**compaqDikk** · 10-15-08, 01:34 PM

i vote we print these lists and post them at local post offices without the postmaster's permission

**picantel** · 10-15-08, 01:43 PM

Let me may a few points clear here since this is my specialty. No CW is not covered under the federal FDCPA. They are a creditor and even if they do their own collecting they are still a creditor and do not follow under the FDCPA. That being said, some states have a state version of the FDCPA like florida or california and yes they can be sued under the state version if you live there. Also, many states have criminal provisions that cover phone harassment, stalking, ect.

Next, there is an erroneous thought here that since they are a foreign entity they do not fall under US law. They are not foreign. Their business is located in Las Vegas and they use proxys to hide this information and make people believe they are operating out of CR. Can you find their business in CR? Of course not as it does not exist. This is why the stiff list is the stupid move of the century. CW believes that by not allowing telephone gambling they can circumvent all anti gambling statutes and the Rico act. They are so wrong it is not even funny. I will give them 4 months tops before they go out of business.

**compaqDikk** · 10-15-08, 01:51 PM

Originally posted by jjgold

Justin offshore bookmaking is illegal so anything goes as there are no rules to collect money, killings,putting up personal info, extortion is all part of the game . If it was a legal usa coporation you would be correct.

Justin ...............Bennett Sanders on the list is a dead ringer for you. I know it is not you but you look pretty close when i compare pic in your vids to this guy. I am not sure if I am giving you a compliment or not.

mr kernel sanders is panici sanzino jj
they are both of hispanic descenst

**themajormt** · 10-15-08, 02:05 PM

Originally posted by picantel

Let me may a few points clear here since this is my specialty. No CW is not covered under the federal FDCPA. They are a creditor and even if they do their own collecting they are still a creditor and do not follow under the FDCPA. That being said, some states have a state version of the FDCPA like florida or california and yes they can be sued under the state version if you live there. Also, many states have criminal provisions that cover phone harassment, stalking, ect.

Next, there is an erroneous thought here that since they are a foreign entity they do not fall under US law. They are not foreign. Their business is located in Las Vegas and they use proxys to hide this information and make people believe they are operating out of CR. Can you find their business in CR? Of course not as it does not exist. This is why the stiff list is the stupid move of the century. CW believes that by not allowing telephone gambling they can circumvent all anti gambling statutes and the Rico act. They are so wrong it is not even funny. I will give them 4 months tops before they go out of business.

Where do the debit cards come from? Surely they arent stupid to mail the things from the US right??

**Brock Landers** · 10-15-08, 02:09 PM

i'm sure the fair debt collection act doesn't allow you to call your clients "motherphuckers" in the voicemail's they leave LOL

**Mudcat** · 10-15-08, 03:15 PM

Of course the good thing about the CW stiff page is it gives eog a list of candidates for paid poster positions on their forum!

Can I have a rimshot please?!

Thank you, thank you. I'll be here all week.

**katstale** · 10-15-08, 04:20 PM

The Dice man cometh..

Ohhhh

**KKoz9** · 10-15-08, 05:03 PM

Is CW based in U.S.? I'm not sure...but if they are not, the FDCPA is irrelevant anyway.

**compaqDikk** · 10-15-08, 05:10 PM

Originally posted by KKoz9

Is CW based in U.S.? I'm not sure...but if they are not, the FDCPA is irrelevant anyway.

headquarteed in salt lake city by the tabernakkles

**KKoz9** · 10-15-08, 05:21 PM

Wow, surprising...how do they continue to operate?

**compaqDikk** · 10-15-08, 05:24 PM

Originally posted by KKoz9

Wow, surprising...how do they continue to operate?

they donate to the church of ladder day saints

**THEGREAT30** · 10-15-08, 05:30 PM

They have to be in the US. I mean why else would they not even have a phone # on there page. I think printing and posting the stiff page in a public place late one night would be a good move for someone that has a vendetta against them. Maybe this intigues the authorities but they themselves could be the authorities.

**RogueJuror** · 10-15-08, 05:47 PM

Originally posted by compaqDikk

did any of you fukkers visit him besides me on xmas? that's what i thought assholes

**BobHarvey** · 10-15-08, 06:18 PM

Is anybody using credit wagering currently? It's an interesting concept but could be a trap. Anyone?

**time is now** · 10-15-08, 06:19 PM

i just contacted the fdcpa my local police dept, and then credit wagering. i am on the stiffs list

**roasthawg** · 10-15-08, 06:24 PM

Originally posted by BobHarvey

Is anybody using credit wagering currently? It's an interesting concept but could be a trap. Anyone?

I've played there this entire fb season...I have a nice little balance going but they won't let me withdraw due to the $3000 rollover. I think I'm already past the limit but I'm way too lazy to add it all up.

**madmaxx** · 10-15-08, 06:24 PM

did they laugh at you?