Ready for a court case against BWIN

**saintpeter** · 04-05-12, 06:25 PM

Ready for a court case against BWIN

Hey guys,

Some years ago i won around 20k in 3 days doing multiple sport bets withouts having any limit on my bets.

After these winnings i saw my bet limit being reduced to only 1 eur per bet. Of course i left bwin in the next they and took almost a month to pay me the money but they paid.

A few days ago i went again into my account in bwin and i saw that my limit has been increased now to 25 eur per bet... since i was qualified for a 100 eur bonus i've did a 100 eur deposit and got the 200 eur on bets... after 2 days i was around 1200 eur and i took the money out quickly and no problems at all...

My question is, since i am a "professional" gambler and i live from that, and watching some companies and people that have suited a court case against bwin in these last years i am decided to move foward with one also.

They can't limit my bets imediately after having huge winnings and having my account without any bet limits till the moment i start winning.

This is fraud, cos the few times i lost heavly i didn't saw my bet limits being reduced...

Do you guys know where i should start to complaint about that?

I have emails from them saying that the reduce of bet limit is a normal procedure with their accounts and i have also screenshots of my winnings.

Please give me some help on this cos i am really decided to stop with this fraud...

Cheers all,

Saint

**Hareeba!** · 04-05-12, 06:34 PM

You have a leg to stand on.

When you sign up to any book you agree to their T&Cs.

Always amongst them is a clause permitting them to limit or refuse to take bets from you.

You agreed to that.

**minet123** · 04-05-12, 06:40 PM

what Hareeba! said
it's isn't a right to do business with anyone
they just can not limit your business because your race,sex, religion etc

**Maniac** · 04-05-12, 08:51 PM

So they paid you out every penny that they owed you, both back then and more recently - and now you want to take them to court because they limited you and therefore made it so that you couldnt win money off of them anymore ?

At the end of the day they are a business, not a public service - if they dont want to keep bleeding money to "professional gamblers" such as yourself, then shouldnt they be allowed to limit you if they see fit to do so ? If they let the professional gambler make as much money as they wanted with no limits then their business would end up losing money and having to close down...and you, and everyone else who had money there would be out of pocket.

Also, if you are a "professional gambler" then what does BWIN offer that makes you so much money, that you cant get at any other books anywhere else - such as exchanges or books that dont put limits on you ?

**Ruifgalmeida** · 04-05-12, 08:57 PM

gambling business is not easy , must bookies are register in offshores and the law is very grey in terms of protecting the player.
good luck

**saintpeter** · 04-05-12, 09:19 PM

Originally posted by Maniac

So they paid you out every penny that they owed you, both back then and more recently - and now you want to take them to court because they limited you and therefore made it so that you couldnt win money off of them anymore ?

At the end of the day they are a business, not a public service - if they dont want to keep bleeding money to "professional gamblers" such as yourself, then shouldnt they be allowed to limit you if they see fit to do so ? If they let the professional gambler make as much money as they wanted with no limits then their business would end up losing money and having to close down...and you, and everyone else who had money there would be out of pocket.

Also, if you are a "professional gambler" then what does BWIN offer that makes you so much money, that you cant get at any other books anywhere else - such as exchanges or books that dont put limits on you ?

1. The gambling have two faces, win or loose... if they dont limit you when you loose why they will limit you when you win?

2. When they start working and avertising their site, they were using the name "Bet & Win", but the fact was that not every single bet you were placing, you were wining. Then someone move them a court case and they were forced to change their name.

3. When you open your account and even when you read your terms and conditions, there isn't any information and nobody told you that you will be limited if you became a winner...

4. Their excuse to such limit is that such a while they are verifying accounts and for the current moment is the best option for me to have that limit. So, they care about my winnings and they dont care about my looses?

5. If they can't handle they business stay out of the markets... i have 8 people living in my home, maybe i need to start opening accounts on the name of each one and get as much money as possible till they have limits on all accounts then... it's not polite, i didn't did that and i want the respect that every gambler likes to have it...

The fact is that they are on internet, internet is free but there are something running and being developed about internet crime and rules that fit every single business or website no matter which country is installed.

I make the money with bets, and made tons per day.... blame me to have a good acurancy... but i can't be limited just because i'm good or just because they can't identify my betting pattern... it's not fair!

And ofc i using other bet services... i trade on currencies and on sportbetting... that's my way of life for so many years...

Gamble for some people is a decease, and companies like BWIN take advantage of this people in order to suck as much money as possible... and i dont see them placing limits into the accounts of these persons... the very few that can have some consistency on winnings are limited or their accounts are just closed with the excuse of the local of residense is on a country where they are not alowed to operate... but again, the account was allowed to open and they didn't care about that till they start loosing money....

I just want to be fair,,, that's all!

Cheers

saint

**Hareeba!** · 04-05-12, 09:27 PM

Life was never meant to be fair.

**Pinocchio** · 04-05-12, 10:19 PM

Life was never meant to be fair.

I've seen you speak against players, siding with the book numerous times. How come you don't defend the player and say "too bad, shit book, life was never meant to be fair" instead?

I hope all players sooner rather than later realize that every book without exception simply wants their money, and if they fu*k up your life making you a degenerate gambler in the process, all the better. They have no ethics or social responsibility. Just by agreeing to their terms and conditions, you're already at a disadvantage. They will take some of YOUR money every time you make a bet, but that by itself is not enough. They know they can do better. And sometimes (some books all the time), they will defraud you. The easiest way to spot an attempt at fraud is when a book says you're not getting paid, then SBR 'makes' them pay. This shows that the book eventually reaches a conclusion that the player did nothing wrong. But earlier they didn't wanna pay and had no complaint been filed, the player would have not been paid. What bull*hit is that?

Despite of that some people still beat them...
Even though most large books could absorb these losses, why on earth would they, if they don't have to...

So all I can say is: good luck to all, trying to beat them ANY WAY YOU CAN.

**brendon** · 04-05-12, 10:43 PM

you going to waste your time and money. move on to the next book and save some aggrevation.

**durito** · 04-05-12, 10:47 PM

you are not a professional gambler

**helpplease** · 04-05-12, 11:34 PM

Originally posted by durito

you are not a professional gambler

this guy is the king of trolls .. feel free to ignore this douche "durito"

**Santo** · 04-05-12, 11:42 PM

The right to refuse to do business with whomever you want is enshrined in a lot of places, not just gambling. The case is most likely futile, unless he's found some odd jurisdiction to file it.

**filipinho** · 04-06-12, 02:53 AM

Originally posted by helpplease

this guy is the king of trolls .. feel free to ignore this douche "durito"

Durito is right, so it takes "few years that professional gambler" realizes that books have right to limit players?
Or he is "professional gambler" using local shops?

Off the topic, I never liked term "professional gambler", it is somehow contradictory since gambling for me represents LUCK and HIGH RISKS, things that professionals dont need.Better use "professional sports bettor".
Or just my logic is ****** up...

**Hareeba!** · 04-06-12, 05:43 AM

Originally posted by Pinocchio

I've seen you speak against players, siding with the book numerous times. How come you don't defend the player and say "too bad, shit book, life was never meant to be fair" instead?

I hope all players sooner rather than later realize that every book without exception simply wants their money, and if they fu*k up your life making you a degenerate gambler in the process, all the better. They have no ethics or social responsibility. Just by agreeing to their terms and conditions, you're already at a disadvantage. They will take some of YOUR money every time you make a bet, but that by itself is not enough. They know they can do better. And sometimes (some books all the time), they will defraud you. The easiest way to spot an attempt at fraud is when a book says you're not getting paid, then SBR 'makes' them pay. This shows that the book eventually reaches a conclusion that the player did nothing wrong. But earlier they didn't wanna pay and had no complaint been filed, the player would have not been paid. What bull*hit is that?

Despite of that some people still beat them...
Even though most large books could absorb these losses, why on earth would they, if they don't have to...

So all I can say is: good luck to all, trying to beat them ANY WAY YOU CAN.

I'm not defending the book at all.

Just telling it like it is.

I hate the way so called bookmakers limit and terminate punters' accounts. I've been the victim of more of those than I can count. But there's no point in trying to challenge something you've agreed to.

**jairocon** · 04-06-12, 06:06 AM

this sounds more like professional arber

**noyb** · 04-06-12, 06:59 AM

every other year a new idiot comes along with the exact same plan. a lot of talk about lawsuits, what's fair and what's not, every time it's the same. nothing ever happens. so boring. i could go on and on and on about how you don't stand a chance in court and how limiting is part of the bookie's business model that is not really that different from the business model of some other parts of the economy, but why waste my time on something that clearly isn't going to happen anyway.

**Maniac** · 04-06-12, 08:33 AM

Originally posted by saintpeter

1. The gambling have two faces, win or loose... if they dont limit you when you loose why they will limit you when you win?

Yes, you can win and you can also lose - the customer signs up with a book knowing this and they still choose to do so anyway. If a book limited every loser and let the winners win as much as they want then they are not a book, they are an out of business book. Sportsbooks are not banks - they are a business that offers a service to people, it is up to the people whether they choose to use that service or not, and likewise it is in the books interest to limit people who are bad for business for them - rightly or wrongly, but either way every business has the right to not do business with someone who is costing them money.

Say you run a restaurant and a customer complains about this and that so much that in the end you give them a free bottle of wine, or knock something off of the bill - if they do this once then thats one thing. But say the same customer comes in a week later and starts trying to do the same to get another freebie - is the owner not in their rights to ban that customer from ever eating there again ? I mean people have to eat right, so by your logic by refusing to serve this customer then the restaurant is making them starve and therefore could be sued as well.

2. When they start working and avertising their site, they were using the name "Bet & Win", but the fact was that not every single bet you were placing, you were wining. Then someone move them a court case and they were forced to change their name.

Wasnt aware f this, but never really used BWin so will take your word for it.

3. When you open your account and even when you read your terms and conditions, there isn't any information and nobody told you that you will be limited if you became a winner...

They tell you that they can limit you as and when they see fit in most cases, but if you still agree to sign up knowing that they can limit you whenever they want to, then you cant complain when they do limit you regardless of the reason they give.

4. Their excuse to such limit is that such a while they are verifying accounts and for the current moment is the best option for me to have that limit. So, they care about my winnings and they dont care about my looses?

Of course they care about your winnings - every single business on this planet cares about something that is costing them money, whether over the short term or the long term. Whether it be fuel costs, expenses, price of raw materials + manufacturing etc, and every business has the right to choose to do what it can to protect themselves and limit those costs - whether that means moving manufacturing to India or somewhere where these costs are lower for them, or whatever.

5. If they can't handle they business stay out of the markets... i have 8 people living in my home, maybe i need to start opening accounts on the name of each one and get as much money as possible till they have limits on all accounts then... it's not polite, i didn't did that and i want the respect that every gambler likes to have it...

Really not advisable, and for someone who professes to be a professional gambler, and has years of experience gambling online, then I would have thought that the reasons this is not advisable should be perfectly clear to you.

The fact is that they are on internet, internet is free but there are something running and being developed about internet crime and rules that fit every single business or website no matter which country is installed.

They are a business, businesses are not free no matter where they are.

I make the money with bets, and made tons per day.... blame me to have a good acurancy... but i can't be limited just because i'm good or just because they can't identify my betting pattern... it's not fair!

Agreed, it isnt fair, but when has business ever been about fairness.

And ofc i using other bet services... i trade on currencies and on sportbetting... that's my way of life for so many years...

Then keep using the others and making your money there instead.

Gamble for some people is a decease, and companies like BWIN take advantage of this people in order to suck as much money as possible... and i dont see them placing limits into the accounts of these persons... the very few that can have some consistency on winnings are limited or their accounts are just closed with the excuse of the local of residense is on a country where they are not alowed to operate... but again, the account was allowed to open and they didn't care about that till they start loosing money....

I just want to be fair,,, that's all!

Cheers

saint

At the end of the day every business who operates has the right to choose to do business with whoever they want, and if someone is costing them money, then why shouldnt that business be allowed to refuse service to that client ?

**lukahh** · 04-06-12, 08:56 AM

waisting time and money to challenge tcs you accepted.
as pro gambler, you should understand the odds and costs of the lawsuit, and move on.

**HeeeHAWWWW** · 04-06-12, 09:17 AM

I'm going to award this thread a huge lol.